Pro Hockey cuts ties with player who bullied developmentally disabled Black kid while in j - Social Anxiety Forum
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-30-2020, 08:05 AM Thread Starter
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Pro Hockey cuts ties with player who bullied developmentally disabled Black kid while in j


Pro Hockey cuts ties with player who bullied developmentally disabled Black kid while in junior high

Mitchell Miller: NHL's Coyotes sever ties with top draft pick who admitted to bullying Black classmate with disabilities - CNN
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/29/us/co...rnd/index.html

What do you think? Did the team do the right thing?
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-30-2020, 08:54 AM
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No company wants to hire a PR problem. They clearly didn't do their job scouting him, though.

Good for him for pleading guilty and hopefully improving himself, but it's absurd that it apparently takes 4 years of struggling through the juvenile courts to get a community service sentence for bullying.

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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-30-2020, 11:15 AM
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I was following this story. The Coyotes are a disaster right now. They had to give up a draft pick this year because they broke the rules about testing prospects before the draft, so they didn't have a draft pick until the 4th round. So that likely contributed to them making the decision to take Miller in the 4th round (since he was projected to be a 2nd round pick but other teams didn't want to touch him because of the bullying story, so he was still available in the 4th round). But it was still a crappy decision to take someone like that. Fortunately there was enough pressure the last few days that they eventually made the right decision to drop him. Now the Coyotes have screwed up their entire draft this year, so not a good year for them, lol.
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-30-2020, 12:12 PM
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Good. Let's hope he stays out of trouble after this.

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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-30-2020, 01:22 PM
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As someone who's teenage years were ruined by bullying, my sympathy is gonna be zero, karma's a bˇt˘h.






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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-30-2020, 07:23 PM
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Hope he'll know what it feels like.
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-30-2020, 09:05 PM
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I don't think he should be fired or whatever, perhaps pay the victim something? Sure.
Ruining someone's life for being stupid as a kid/teenager isn't very fair or decent. (Yes, even if they're bullies & possibly ruined someone else's life..)

I don't think kids are responsible for things on the same level as adults, even when they do terrible things.

It would be interesting to hear more about the circumstances. Almost always when I hear about bad bullying cases, a part of it is the society failing to put and end to things.


Edit:

Why is it worth mentioning that the bullied kid was black - it doesn't turn out it was racially motivated anywhere T_T

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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-30-2020, 10:29 PM
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UND dropped him today too. It's his freshman year and players sign scholarships well in advance of moving to the schools. UND has even more questions to answer than the Arizona Coyotes do.
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-31-2020, 12:21 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue2 View Post
As someone who's teenage years were ruined by bullying, my sympathy is gonna be zero, karma's a bˇt˘h.
Agree. People dont understand how damaging bullying can be to the victim. A whole lot of males think it is just a natural way of growing up and it makes you tough. But it can lead to all kinds of mental illness [Staff Edit]

Last edited by WillYouStopDave; 10-31-2020 at 01:03 PM. Reason: Inappropriate references removed
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-31-2020, 01:14 PM
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This was also not a typical case of bullying either. Miller and his buddies tricked the victim into licking a candy push pop that they wiped in a bathroom urinal. The victim had to get tested for HIV, hepatitis and STDs because of it. 14 is old enough to know what he did was as physically dangerous as it was debilitating to the victim's mental health.
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-31-2020, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by PGVan View Post
This was also not a typical case of bullying either. Miller and his buddies tricked the victim into licking a candy push pop that they wiped in a bathroom urinal. The victim had to get tested for HIV, hepatitis and STDs because of it. 14 is old enough to know what he did was as physically dangerous as it was debilitating to the victim's mental health.
I'm sure the bullies thought "hey you know what would be funny? To potentially infect this kid with std's lmao!"



Or perhaps, they were dumb kids who didn't really think about the repercussions of their actions, as is pretty common at that age. (And probably thought to just make him do something disgusting)
I don't really want to defend bullies, and I think there should be a punishment - but not one to destroy their life. I feel like there are people here who have been bullied enough, that they lose touch with reality.

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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-31-2020, 03:48 PM
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Unfortunately, this is only one case where legal action could have been taken. If the family never spoke out following the remorse letters, the draft decision/proceeding might have turned out differently.
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-01-2020, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raies View Post
I don't think he should be fired or whatever, perhaps pay the victim something? Sure.
Ruining someone's life for being stupid as a kid/teenager isn't very fair or decent. (Yes, even if they're bullies & possibly ruined someone else's life..)

I don't think kids are responsible for things on the same level as adults, even when they do terrible things.

It would be interesting to hear more about the circumstances. Almost always when I hear about bad bullying cases, a part of it is the society failing to put and end to things.


Edit:

Why is it worth mentioning that the bullied kid was black - it doesn't turn out it was racially motivated anywhere T_T
There's another source that says more:

https://www.trainwrecksports.com/isa...tchell-miller/

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A new boy named Hunter, a friend of Mitchell was now also bullying Isaiah. They both called Isaiah the “N-word” and told him to “go pick their cotton.” They also called him names like “Brownie.” Classmates also confirmed these reports. There was also surveillance footage of both boys physically abusing Isiah, which included slamming his head into a brick wall.

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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-01-2020, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raies View Post
I don't think he should be fired or whatever, perhaps pay the victim something? Sure.
Ruining someone's life for being stupid as a kid/teenager isn't very fair or decent. (Yes, even if they're bullies & possibly ruined someone else's life..)

I don't think kids are responsible for things on the same level as adults, even when they do terrible things.

It would be interesting to hear more about the circumstances. Almost always when I hear about bad bullying cases, a part of it is the society failing to put and end to things.


Edit:

Why is it worth mentioning that the bullied kid was black - it doesn't turn out it was racially motivated anywhere T_T
Except it absolutely was racially motivated.

Miller's life won't be ruined. First of all, the vast majority of hockey players who are good enough to get drafted are well off to begin with. To play on the elite teams necessary to have a pro career be realistic, parents need to spend thousands per season. There are very few stories of kids coming from poor families and making it big in comparison to basketball, baseball and soccer. Countless kids every season are pulled from rep teams (what we call the elite youth teams in Canada) because their parents just cannot afford it.

Secondly, while UND has removed him from its hockey team, they are allowing him to remain a student. He will get an education and hopefully renounce his racist ways that he was unfortunately raised with, but I don't believe that happens very often. He just won't be a pro hockey player where he will be a role model for kids, and given what he did, that's a good thing.
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-01-2020, 12:08 PM
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Also the family of the boy who was bullied says that the other kid who participated in the bullying with Miller showed remorse and apologised to the boy, and they forgave him. Miller did not show remorse, and even the judge who sentenced him said that he didn't believe Miller had any remorse, and he apparently continued bullying him for a couple more years afterwards. So it's not just a question of something that he did at 14 ruining his life. It wouldn't have ruined his life if he had made some effort to rectify the situation and seek forgiveness. He had plenty of opportunity to do so but he didn't, and that's why he deserves what he's getting now.
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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-01-2020, 03:19 PM
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Except it absolutely was racially motivated.
Which wasn't explained in the original post, but was in the link persephone kindly posted. I wasn't arguing it - I was asking why, since it was not aparrent in the original article.

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Miller's life won't be ruined.
Cba to play the game of definitions here. My point was quite clear: he ****ed up, but shouldn't have repercussions that affect him negatively for the rest of his life. Which this is.

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First of all, the vast majority of hockey players who are good enough to get drafted are well off to begin with.
So we shouldn't hold the same standards, and act equally when they **** up, in opposed to someone who comes from a poor family?
I think it is irrelevant whether or not he comes from a wealthy family or not. What matters, is his actions, and how he should be punished for them. People are individuals, regardless of who their parents are.

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hopefully renounce his racist ways that he was unfortunately raised with, but I don't believe that happens very often.
First off, where tf do you get he was 'raised with' racist ways.. As if teens aren't able to pull out dumb stuff out by themselves. Perhaps you should try sticking with given facts rather than speculate things..? (Or refer to facts in case they haven't been presented in the discussion)

Secondly, it isn't uncommon for teens to act stupid things - sometimes racist things. And grow up 'okay'.

That's called being a teenager - doing stupid stuff and learning from it. A synonym for it is 'growing up' - you know, learning not to do things you did wrong as a teen. Most people are capable of it.


As a personal story, when I was ~14, a bunch of friends and I used to joke about nazi stuff (edgy) (ironically, we joked about jews as well, but we always held jews in a good light, idk why, since obviously that was contradictory)
As an adult I completely understand how stupid it was, and today I doubt anyone would think about 'racist' or anything of the sort when describing me. Not because "I got punished" or whatever (I never did for anything related to that), but because I grew up, and understood that I was a dumbass.


I would also point out, as in the link persephone gave, it says the bullying continued from 2nd grade to 8th.
I would ask how the school/society hasn't done anything in that amount of time?

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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-01-2020, 05:33 PM
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Very rarely is anything successfully done about bullying. Even when teachers are made aware ime nothing happens. Multiple people tried to get involved on my behalf and I had to deal with abuse from about the age of 6-18 (though it tapered off quite a bit after 16 due to not being around them as much.) I also don't believe that genuinely psychopathic teenagers really grow out of it. This kid sounded like one.

Some bullies do it to deflect attention from themselves/avoid being bullied/fit in and be cool they are probably more capable of empathy, guilt and 'growing out of it' when they switch environments.

Not much you can do with psychopaths. If you cut off ways for them to be successful they usually just start getting their kicks from other criminal activity.

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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-01-2020, 08:52 PM
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I was a bullying victim pretty bad, but to have the perpetrator charged, convicted, and serve time....puts a different facet on it for me.

Yes, I was bullied by people and then new students coming in when the bullies would say stuff to them about me.

All these years later, do I want to have contact with them? No.

BUT

As a "victim", I must forgive. Now, keep reading because this is the important point. Forgiveness will release YOU of the pain, but it DOES NOT release that assailant from his responsibility. He must atone for what he did - I think he has in this case, as long as the behavior hasn't returned.
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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-02-2020, 09:47 PM
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I can't speak for those who he bullied (his targets/victims) obviously but personally I have a lot of empathy for this former bully. I forgive him. :/
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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-14-2020, 12:05 AM
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BUT

As a "victim", I must forgive. Now, keep reading because this is the important point. Forgiveness will release YOU of the pain, but it DOES NOT release that assailant from his responsibility. He must atone for what he did - I think he has in this case, as long as the behavior hasn't returned.

No one "must" forgive. By making forgiveness mandatory and not an option, it just irreversibly cheapens the very act and makes it ultimately meaningless.



The thought of a victim feeling that they have to forgive their perpetrator(s) is something I find uncomfortable, if not sickening. It places a burden of responsibility on those who were hurt. The victim becomes in charge of “letting go of” the consequences of another person’s cruel and selfish actions. Forgiveness can be a form of shaming where a person’s natural feelings of sadness, anger, betrayal, and distrust are treated as wrong.


A long standing grudge suggests that we hold certain standards, that we respect ourselves enough to reject bad behavior. Not forgiving can be just as righteous, just as honorable as forgiveness itself. Forgiving people who have done nothing to deserve it can be dangerous.
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