Neo-Nazis Are Glorifying Osama Bin Laden - Social Anxiety Forum
 
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-17-2019, 09:59 PM Thread Starter
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Neo-Nazis Are Glorifying Osama Bin Laden


https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/b...sama-bin-laden

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As the threat of militant neo-Nazi groups expands and gains the attentions of federal authorities, their online propaganda tactics are taking a page out of an unlikely playbook: well-known jihadist groups.

Two neo-Nazi terror groups in particular, both revealed to be under investigation by the FBI in a recent indictment of an alleged bomber who was a member of both organizations, have recently demonstrated that they’re learning from online propaganda created by ISIS and al Qaeda.

In a late May post, European neo-Nazi group Feuerkrieg Division (FKD) published a propaganda image to its now-defunct Gab page. The image featured a stylized, yet unmistakable, screengrab from an infamous ISIS how-to video promoting homemade explosives with the caption, “It’s easier than you think.”

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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 06:07 AM
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Well they have a lot in common so why not lol?

The only difference is that Wahhabism focusses more on belief puritanism and Nazism on racial/genetic.

As for Bin Laden well they both have a strong dislike for Israel and are antisemitic, and are ultraconservatives.

Tbf though pretty much all extremist groups hate Jewish people.

I don't actually find this ironic though (I realise it's supposed to be,) but I've long noticed in my own country how atheist/Christian conservatives team up with Islamic ones when it suits them. Their racism is a good thing in a way because it stops ultraconservatist ideas getting traction. (The racists will often try to appeal to white liberals before absorbing conservative ideas from foreign cultures that are even worse.) But it often breaks down. Even the original Nazi party had non-white groups they admired and many in the far right praise the writings of this Indian woman:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savitri_Devi

I have similar thoughts about some feminists (certain sects,) they are clearly of a similar mindset but are misandric enough that they don't get attached to conservatism. (edit: I mean past a certain point, it tempers things.)

Yeah, it's a sad day when intolerance is actually a plus to stop dumb ideas gaining power.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 08:17 AM
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Nobody asks where ISIS learned their tactics from? Nobody wants to disclose that inconvenient detail??

Osama Bin Laden, as member of the Saudi royal family, was once a friend and asset to the United States and the US military objective out in the middle east. So whatever is being learned from Bin Laden...well, you can guess where Osama's textbook came from.

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 09:35 AM
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Ironic that these conservative terrorists are seeking tactics from the people they hate.

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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 10:32 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Persephone The Dread View Post
I don't actually find this ironic though (I realise it's supposed to be,) but I've long noticed in my own country how atheist/Christian conservatives team up with Islamic ones when it suits them. Their racism is a good thing in a way because it stops ultraconservatist ideas getting traction. (The racists will often try to appeal to white liberals before absorbing conservative ideas from foreign cultures that are even worse.) But it often breaks down. Even the original Nazi party had non-white groups they admired and many in the far right praise the writings of this Indian woman:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savitri_Devi

I have similar thoughts about some feminists (certain sects,) they are clearly of a similar mindset but are misandric enough that they don't get attached to conservatism. (edit: I mean past a certain point, it tempers things.)

Yeah, it's a sad day when intolerance is actually a plus to stop dumb ideas gaining power.
Oh, I'm not sharing this because it's ironic. I'm sharing this because their violent aims need to be brought to light. I want fewer people to be blown to pieces and shot up.

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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 11:28 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Micronian View Post
Nobody asks where ISIS learned their tactics from? Nobody wants to disclose that inconvenient detail??

Osama Bin Laden, as member of the Saudi royal family, was once a friend and asset to the United States and the US military objective out in the middle east. So whatever is being learned from Bin Laden...well, you can guess where Osama's textbook came from.
Can't blame people for staying on topic.

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-18-2019, 04:27 PM
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Sounds about right.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Squirrelevant View Post
Oh, I'm not sharing this because it's ironic. I'm sharing this because their violent aims need to be brought to light. I want fewer people to be blown to pieces and shot up.
Fair enough I more meant in general though like a lot of people look at this kind of thing and it's supposed to be weird to them but yeah extremists usually end up resorting to violence and ultraconservatives have a lot in common as well.

I don't think making people aware of it will reduce the violence mind you, might even increase it if it comes in the form of media reporting.

The only people who can do anything about it are people who have a lot of influence over culture which is:

The government, large technology companies, new media personalities, anyone who feels like culture hacking chan sites or random Discord communities etc.

The biggest opportunity for changing online environments is via Discord and 4chan since YouTube have ****ed everyone with their algorithms which promote extremist viewpoints since 2015.

Though you don't have to worry too much about 4chan I think, it basically hacks itself because everyone's so high in schizotypy.. It's like the Sheogorath of the internet.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 06:34 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Persephone The Dread View Post
I don't think making people aware of it will reduce the violence mind you, might even increase it if it comes in the form of media reporting.

The only people who can do anything about it are people who have a lot of influence over culture which is:

The government, large technology companies, new media personalities, anyone who feels like culture hacking chan sites or random Discord communities etc.

The biggest opportunity for changing online environments is via Discord and 4chan since YouTube have ****ed everyone with their algorithms which promote extremist viewpoints since 2015.
Making people more aware of it means that more people with influence over culture will become aware of it and more people without that influence will be motivated to gain influence for the purposes of fighting it. Awareness can also lead to individuals being inoculated to far right views.

I've recently taken to Twitter and will be linking it with my own YouTube content soon with the purpose of fighting disinformation more generally. I also hope to create a blog and perhaps even a write a book someday. Disinformation is after all considered to be one of the top 3 existential threats facing the world according to the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists.

Basically the relevant phenomenon we are fighting against in this instance is identitarian metapolitics.

"Identitarian metapolitics focuses on shifting the accepted topics, terms, and positions of public discussion so as to create a social and political environment more open and potentially accepting, of its ideology." - Hope Not Hate

The reprehensible violent extremist activities of far right groups should be exposed far and wide as quickly as possible before it leads to attacks, as it creates "bad optics" for them. Now you might wonder, "well wouldn't any attacks create bad optics for them?", but it's not so simple. What these groups hope to do is walk a fine line between inspiring further violent action while maintaining the appearance of legitimacy for their views (or views that tend to progress towards their views) so that they can continue to radicalise others.

Exposing the more extreme side of their politics is not enough, however. A more comprehensive effort needs to be made to discredit the intellectual bankruptcy and bigotry that increasingly exists within many right wing circles, while providing a coherent alternative path out of it for those that are vulnerable to radicalisation.

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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 08:25 AM
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At the end of the day, this kind of attention is exactly what those morons want. So you're actually probably just feeding them.

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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 10:16 AM Thread Starter
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At the end of the day, this kind of attention is exactly what those morons want. So you're actually probably just feeding them.
I've explained why I think attention needs to be paid to this. Can you refute my explanation?

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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 10:43 AM
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oh those naughty neo-nazis. they've lost all the immense respect I had for them previously. I never dreamed they would encourage violence, I always thought they were just a gentle misunderstood bunch.

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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Squirrelevant View Post
I've explained why I think attention needs to be paid to this. Can you refute my explanation?
I've explained why I think that giving them the attention they want is giving them what they want. That's pretty much all I had to say about it.

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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrelevant View Post
Making people more aware of it means that more people with influence over culture will become aware of it and more people without that influence will be motivated to gain influence for the purposes of fighting it. Awareness can also lead to individuals being inoculated to far right views.

I've recently taken to Twitter and will be linking it with my own YouTube content soon with the purpose of fighting disinformation more generally. I also hope to create a blog and perhaps even a write a book someday. Disinformation is after all considered to be one of the top 3 existential threats facing the world according to the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists.

Basically the relevant phenomenon we are fighting against in this instance is identitarian metapolitics.

"Identitarian metapolitics focuses on shifting the accepted topics, terms, and positions of public discussion so as to create a social and political environment more open and potentially accepting, of its ideology." - Hope Not Hate

The reprehensible violent extremist activities of far right groups should be exposed far and wide as quickly as possible before it leads to attacks, as it creates "bad optics" for them. Now you might wonder, "well wouldn't any attacks create bad optics for them?", but it's not so simple. What these groups hope to do is walk a fine line between inspiring further violent action while maintaining the appearance of legitimacy for their views (or views that tend to progress towards their views) so that they can continue to radicalise others.

Exposing the more extreme side of their politics is not enough, however. A more comprehensive effort needs to be made to discredit the intellectual bankruptcy and bigotry that increasingly exists within many right wing circles, while providing a coherent alternative path out of it for those that are vulnerable to radicalisation.
I think a lot of people are prone to extremist ideologies but most of those people will never engage in violence to get what they want. I'm extremist/radical myself (in different ways, my entire existence necessitates radicalism unfortunately.)

The people who do engage in violence usually have a number of different things going on, tend to be very nihilistic too. I feel like they won't even care if you socially shame them because at the point where they're willing to do that they're too far gone.

But yeah you can change the excuses people use to commit violence, and educate people who never would have become violent but might otherwise adopt radical viewpoints.


Probably the biggest contributor to violence is people with certain genetics being ostracised (or feeling ostracised.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_A

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A variant of the monoamine oxidase-A gene has been popularly referred to as the warrior gene.[43] Several different versions of the gene are found in different individuals, although a functional gene is present in most humans (with the exception of a few individuals with Brunner syndrome).[44] In the variant, the allele associated with behavioural traits is shorter (30 bases) and may produce less MAO-A enzyme.[10] This gene variation is in a regulatory promoter region about 1,000 bases from the start of the region that encodes the MAO-A enzyme.

When faced with social exclusion or ostracism, individuals with the low activity MAOA gene showed higher levels of aggression than individuals with the high activity MAOA gene.[45] Low activity MAO-A could significantly predict aggressive behaviour in a high provocation situation, but was less associated with aggression in a low provocation situation. Individuals with the low activity variant of the MAOA gene were just as likely as participants with the high activity variant to retaliate when the loss was small. However, they were more likely to retaliate and with greater force when the loss was large.[46]
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 01:10 PM
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By the way I think trying to combat the ideas is good, since personally I don't like right-wing ideology even when it doesn't involve violence, but I am sceptical that combating ideology will reduce violence instead of just moving it around.

edit:

also reminds me of this (timestamped specific part of video about 24-26 minutes in)

https://youtu.be/S1xxcKCGljY?t=24m16s
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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-21-2019, 04:02 PM
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Some of the responses are so cringe it makes me smile. Vice news is absolute trash these days most of it's valuable journalists have jumped ship into other organizations or to work for themselves.

On neonazi terrorism this is merely another excuse to crack down on rights in the US and place people under surveillance. Hysteria will continue until unfortunately another ruby ridge, waco, and Oklahoma city bombing happens like in the 90's in response to such crack downs on US civilians. Not to say suspicion is unwarranted but it's important not to leap into paranoia which is the response the media prefers to provoke.

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-21-2019, 04:14 PM
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Just when I was thinking about becoming a Neo-Nazi, this news has tainted my whole perception & put that dream on hold.






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