I love SHAFT ! IT IS OFFENSIVE AND NON POLITICALLY CORRECT - Social Anxiety Forum
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post #1 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 08:58 AM Thread Starter
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I love SHAFT ! IT IS OFFENSIVE AND NON POLITICALLY CORRECT



I love this shaft movie so much ! Just watched it SPOILER'S.

It features Samuel Jackson at his best...completely NONE POLITICALLY CORRECT and unappologetic for it.

I also love how tHE movie makes social commentary on the ridiculousness of current PC culture and how it neuters our young males.

Because whilst Samuel Jackson's Shaft character is obviously an exaggerated alpha stereotype akin to James Bond....the character the son plays at the start...isn''t very unrealistic at all...and that is the scary sad part.

Just think about it, the son starts of, constantly policing his speech, completely unassertive, and always overcorrecting his behaviour to avoid conflict.

In fact, the truly sickening nature of how neutered the son is only becomes apparent when alongside Shaft.

I LOVE how the movie shows the ridiculousness of the current popular narrative of how men should behave vs what actually attracts women.

For example, there is a restaurant scene where Shaft comes to see his ex-wife...and a shoot out happens. She starts complaining how violence always follows him etc...etc...and how this is the reason she left him, how she wants a stable life....yet in this same scene we also see the "non-threatening man" she was dating cower in fear and inaction during the shootout...and how disgusted she was by his response..

In that same scene, when the wife confronts shaft about his reckless dangerous lifestyle....he responds by telling her that her ^-^s are erected.

A similar thing happens between the young Love interest and Shaft Jr. Earlier on in the movie she is seen constantly disapproving of the father's methods, yet she
1) insults Jr for his lack of a gun despite being an agent
2) becomes obviously aroused, when he takes the gun from her and uses it to defend her.

This is the harm that modern feminism does.
It pushes the narrative that women should be attracted to a man with none of the traditional male traits because these traits are toxic masculinity which leaves women disappointed and confused. Because when they get the safe, unassuming, unassertive man...they find themselves unaroused.

To justify this dissonance they (referring to the activists who push this nonsense...not all women) come up with all sorts of excuses for it
  1. Feminist men are only looking for nookie
  2. Nice guys only act nice to get nookie
  3. Feminist men / nice guys feel they are entitled to sex because of their niceness/advocacy
[*]the men are not confident enough[/LIST]
All of these are simple excuses to deny a simple fact...if a man truly takes in what the feminists say about toxic masculinity, safe spaces, PC language, metoo etc.....and actively inputs it into his daily life....it makes him less sexually appealing to women.

This is how Shaft Jr becomes more attractive his love interest and wins her over at the end of the movie. He starts off constantly saying "you can't say this, you can't say that" "you can't X to a woman" .....to saying and doing exactly what he wants unappologetically...and she gets turned on by it.
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post #2 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by VIncymon View Post
This is the harm that modern feminism does.
It pushes the narrative that women should be attracted to a man with none of the traditional male traits because these traits are toxic masculinity which leaves women disappointed and confused. Because when they get the safe, unassuming, unassertive man...they find themselves unaroused.
I think you are unsure what feminism is, are confusing it with sexual preference, and assuming something really quite derogatory about women with their "confusion".

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post #3 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 10:09 AM
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You sound like you need a nap.
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post #4 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 12:06 PM
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Male feminists are fake and unattractive anyway. Women want to be ravaged, that's what makes them cum haha
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post #5 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 02:11 PM
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post #6 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 02:17 PM
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Why are you so obsessed with things being politically incorrect/correct?

https://www.socialanxietysupport.com...-wing-2225233/

https://www.socialanxietysupport.com...ca-if-2224187/

https://www.socialanxietysupport.com...ation-2224607/

https://www.socialanxietysupport.com...rtion-2223671/

You're like the people you whine about but in reverse.


Also for the record, masculinity as you describe is completely disgusting. But there's no accounting for taste I guess.

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Originally Posted by SplendidBob View Post
I think you are unsure what feminism is, are confusing it with sexual preference, and assuming something really quite derogatory about women with their "confusion".
Nah he's not talking about feminism he's talking about feminism.

[link]

Someone has to burn the kingdom down though.

so yeah can't link because of the painting (forum rules, even though I've broken several in this thread already, and I'm too pissed to care,) google 'Lesbians are Sub-standard, Imitation Men' then forget the lesbian part because it's irrelevant I find.

edit: wait I forgot I have a soundtrack now:


but for real though just give me **** to burn down.

The OP and those similar to him want a villain, and I will be that villain.

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post #7 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 04:28 PM
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@VIncymon A couple of points:

1. SHAFT is targeted at macho straight men. It's a male power fantasy. So ofc the female characters are going to swoon over the protagonist. It wouldn't be a very good fantasy if they didn't.

So basically none of your observations about the movie are really relevant to your point. These aren't women expressing their honest feelings; they're actors following a script. You wouldn't watch porn (hopefully) and decide that all women "really" want to be treated the way porn actresses are.

If you want to know what women want, you have to actually look at media designed to appeal to women.

2. If you look at women's entertainment, you will see some similarities, but you'll also see some significant differences. (And bear in mind that every woman is different. There is no hivemind.)

There are a lot of "bad boys" in women's entertainment, though many love interests aren't that way at all, and even the ones that are are of a special type: they can "kick ***", but they pretty much always treat the female protagonist with respect and respect her feelings and boundaries. This is nice behavior. The behavior that the "ebil fembinists" are trying to "indoctrinate" into young boys. Contrary to what some people might think, women don't actually enjoy being ordered around or "submitting" to male authority. (Laughable.)

What you see in women's media is that the love interest is generally: a. something of a badass in some way (and not always physically; might just be really talented), and b. a really nice guy (except toward jerks). It's not either/or; it's both. And the niceness is just as important as the badness.

Red Pill "thinking" about women's sexuality is just another male fantasy. Women have written millions of romance novels. Anyone who wants to know what women like can easily find out for themselves. But most guys prefer their own fantasies for some reason. I guess because it's easier to either be a "nice guy" and get angry at women for liking jerks, or be a jerk and tell yourself that women actually like your behavior, than it is to be both strong and kind.

Are you sure you want to permanently delete this culture? [Yes] [No]
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post #8 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 05:57 PM
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post #9 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 06:06 PM
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I thought this was gonna be about a totally different shaft.

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post #10 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-18-2019, 02:20 AM
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I thought this was gonna be about a totally different shaft.
Me too. And yes, I know what you meant.


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post #11 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-18-2019, 05:42 AM
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post #12 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 12:47 PM
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You know the more I think about it the weirder it seems that you've looked at a film aimed at straight guys and concluded that most women want a guy like that, and more to the point I haven't come across any women talking about whoever that character is. Like if someone went and watched Pride and Prejudice and concluded that most guy's dream girl was Elizabeth Bennet haha. I mean she got a guy didn't she?

I was going to include examples that are generalisable in this post but then I realised it really doesn't matter. Why? Because you just picked a fantasy you feel is something that appeals to you and decided that all women want to be part of it no matter what they say. I feel like I should start posting contrary info everytime I see a guy doing this (cause for some reason it's 99% of the time guys with the same feelings about women doing it, and then dismissing contrary opinions as you did in the OP.) I'll just create some like copypasta response. (About half of this will be IAMX quotes, because cutie <3)

Quote:
Yes, the more unconventional, the better. I’ve always been inclined to left-wing point of view, ways of dressing and ways of expressing oneself. There are many levels of beauty. Of course, there is physical attraction but then there is much more in the mentality that can stimulate me. I‘m more inclined to female beauty and I think that is because the female attitude is just more in line with my own. The feminine kind of view of the world is much more like my own. I grew up with very strong mother and sister, who had a big influence on me. My sister dressed me up as a girl when I was little, and it has had a big impact on me. So, femininity is a big part of my life. I can’t really define what exactly beauty is but this is definitely multilayered and unconventional. Confidence and freedom with one’s own expression, whether is it is sexual or artistic, are very important; they are all connected to the same thing.
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Above all, the feminine in nature is the saving grace. I grew up with a strong female energy around me. I am thankful for that and in some ways I feel more enlightened and connected with sensitivity, love, affection; the gentle, harmonious qualities in life. In other ways as a man I react against them. I put up walls, I am cold and I think of achieving too much. The song is about the struggle between these, with the feminine element taking the dominant position in the end.
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CAN SOMEBODY PLEASE BRING ME SOME TIGHTS TONIGHT? FEELING THE NEED . SECOND HAND ACCEPTABLE . X
so they were on tour a while back with Kat Von D, and I really wanted to find a quote where someone pointed out that it seems like he'll be exactly like her by the end of the tour (people kept noting they seemed like twins,) and he responded with something like 'I hope so' I can't find it though and now I've been side tracked by Kat Von D photos... Goths though.. Am I right? I mean I can't be wrong. Obviously. That's the point of this post.

This is cute:

https://www.reddit.com/r/RoleReversa..._and_medicine/

Quote:
My Girlfriend bought me flowers and medicine because I was sick. It's so pretty!
about half way down the page you see someone decided to lie about her boyfriend tsk:

Quote:
I got my boyfriend a rose and he said it was emasculating lol. I’ve lived with this guy for a year and that reaction was unexpected to say the least.
But we all know she's lying, no guy would ever feel emasculated being given flowers just ask Jake Peralta, a character, on a television show (TV is real people. This thread has confirmed):



https://www.reddit.com/r/RoleReversa...ut_the_future/

This is a dream some woman had when she was a young girl, but it's reality now. Except the end part, cause I mean obviously all guys are into her dream scenario. (also can't quote because word count.)

https://www.reddit.com/r/RoleReversa...be_told_today/

Girl telling guys they're handsome using spiderman meme, gets this response (clearly applicable to all men):

Quote:
Quote:
Would prefer pretty but thanks
Agreed.

I want a handsome girl to tell me I'm pretty.
You know what I'm picking up on during my current exploration is so much flower repression:

Quote:
I buy flowers and plants I want for our apartment under the guise of "for my girlfriend."

She's always so happy to receive them. Little does she know I love our apartment looking like a jungle.
Why is this the most common thing to be brought up when considering role reversal? Probably one of the oldest 'role things.'

also the video in my signature lol.

Also this book about a female sadist

You know when I was a teenager I went through a period of having a fantasy where a genderbent/androgynous poison ivy type character who lived in the forest captured a Human guy who was encroaching on his land and forced him to forsake the Human world and live in the forest with him. Also involved lots of the pet plants having sex with him. I think it was mostly plant sex actually. (typically he'd have some significant involvement in the Human world that was resulting in destruction to the forest, and the plant person wanted to corrupt him. I was a bit lazy about coming up with the perfect role but yeah. It was all very Tolkein/environmentalism.)

The original Poison Ivy is probably a manifestation of flower repression too. Society is teaching you to dislike flowers, but deep down you just want to give into the flowers. This is a deeply scientific theory brought to you by pattern matching and cognitive bias.

Quote:
Quote:
I accidently got turned on, by seeing a woman with big muscles yesterday.

I blame you Guys for converting me. Thanks
Quote:
It’s happens to all of us! ��
More things that apply to all guys.

OK just quoting stuff because you get the idea at this point..

Quote:
I kind of went poking in that question in another thread myself, but I'd rather ask the credible source since it's right at my fingertips. I've been kind of down over the fact lately that most straight or bi men still want their female or even afab nonbinary partners to fit SOME standard of femininity. The AskMen thread on liking tomboys was... ugh. I'm feeling pretty bad that I'm not into girls or other nb trans folks, tbf. But I don't think I'll give up the search for my counterpart from the other side (I like male femininity a lot. A girly guy is basically the only sort of human I find attractive and I haven't really been able to change that through any measure of mental gymnastics, it just is. I don't like girls, and masculinity in males puts me off).
Quote:
I've known I'm something like this ever since I came to contact with the opposite gender. My earliest daydreams were of rescuing/protecting/hurt&comfort-style stories. Hell, it's been a long, angsty ride to adulthood. Misfit, bi, butch, tomboy, oddly romantic trans-fetishist, lesbian, gay trans man — you name it, I've considered it. I guess this is fuelled by general feelings of hopelessness. Or perhaps the ways all my female friends act and their attitudes, the lack of understanding that creeps in. Sometimes it feels like I'm the only person alive that's even into this. Sometimes even lowering the bar and wanting somewhat equal relationships with guys is considered at best peculiar/rr, at worst you have some sort of penis envy. "Are you sure you're not a lesbian?" - no, I'm not, and still people of both genders have honestly told me they don't want what I have to offer, because I'm just a weird kind of backwards, looking for something that doesn't exist. "No, you don't understand. Boys want this, girls want this. You have them all backwards! How can you be so dumb? No guy wants that. And she wants to feel like a lady. Do you really have so little sense of the situation and what is appropriate?"

...

In an odd way, gender roles matter to me. It's just how I'm wired, I guess, and it takes it's toll every time I see how the army changes another guy to one of the machismo-worshipping, yet fearful zombies, get told to bottle up feelings and not wear this or that, comform, not be a special snowflake. Every time I witness the enforcing of that **** on people who are unwilling or maybe, just maybe a little bit like me.

And here's the really annoying part right. You, and many like you, have partners. You have a girlfriend. So this isn't even coming from a place of 'I'm so frustrated because I can't get a girlfriend, let me psychoanalayse women to the nth degree through my various biases and think about what they may like.' You're just a guy obsessed with a certain mode of behaviour, as with a lot of guys atm, who gets freaked out the second people in the media aren't reflecting what you personally want to see. And what you want to see has been so normal, for so long, you feel outraged that mainstream media isn't catering to you personally in the current zeitgeist.

Most people who wanted to see something the media wasn't showing were just writing fanfiction/making fanart lol in the 2000s. You may wish to consider doing that instead.

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post #13 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 02:49 PM
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Me too. And yes, I know what you meant.
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post #14 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 04:04 PM Thread Starter
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Ah well, what can I say... I watched this movie after hearing about the female James Bond and ...I was like yea !...I was totally indulged in that fantasy !

Look yes...I know...I'm not the angry virgin who hates women because I actually do have a longterm girlfriend.

But please I digress. I know that there is a general current of "men should not talk about abortion because we are not women"

I hope the same doesn't apply that "men who are not virgins should not comment on societal ills facing men"
because it seems like this is what some of you are saying. Since Vincymon is in a committed relationship, he shouldn't be bothered with whatever struggles that young men face growing up.

...its just ...well I remember the years b4 I met my girl, my one and only. ...and all the clumsy, Beta-male wrong things I was doing...and when I hear some of the #metoo talking heads on the Media... it feels like they are advising young men to behave in exactly the way I did when I was not getting any action romantically...and it just frustrates me.

I look at Shaft Jr at the start of the movie and how unsure he is of everything....even if technically what he says and does is supposedly proper behaviour ...and how little romantic progress he was making.

And yes I know its just a movie...but its got a lot of social commentary to it.

I don't like how hard society nowadays tries to trample on men for being proud of their maleness.
AND NO I am not saying that women should go back to the kitchen, out of the work force and not voting. Heavens no.

I'm just saying that...the current narrative often runs counter to what I have seen with my own eyes attracts women. (yes disclaimer...I have not met every woman in the world, but hey ...even currently held scientific medical theories are made by statistical analysis...using samples)...like how #metoo has been exaggerated and mutated to the point that it runs directly counter to innocent office romance. (and once again...NO i am not condoing abuse of power).

...I have heard some female fanfiction from my girlfriend; in most of them the male lead is rich and [email protected] in some skill to fantastic levels, the male lead always makes the dates and innitiates the sex...might I add often in ways that could be interpreted as a metoo moment.

For example...in one part of the story...the beau finds the woman in the dressing room of a mall, enters the dressing room and ...innitiates the deed ...it works on a base level because it shows decisiveness, and a deep sexual desire for the female lead.

How would the above scenario possibly play out in the current "yes means yes" "affirmative consent" society of ours ?

Imagine if instead... he taps on the door, asks "Can I come in ?" ...steps in and asks "can we have ...." etc etc...spontaneity ruined, thrill gone, surprise gone.
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post #15 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 04:29 PM
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I read a lot of fanfiction and quite a bit of it involves breaking various norms actually. Probably a lot more so than traditional romance fiction. I've even seen stuff that has affirmative consent actually (didn't really think of it with that framing, but I have lol.)

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post #16 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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I read a lot of fanfiction and quite a bit of it involves breaking various norms actually. Probably a lot more so than traditional romance fiction. I've even seen stuff that has affirmative consent actually (didn't really think of it with that framing, but I have lol.)
Really are those highly rated ?
Most of the fanfiction I have heard from my girlfriend, and female classmates at school usually have male heroes more akin to Twilight and 50 Shades of Grey.

1) Insanely rich
2) Endless sexual prowress
3) Always correctly predicts and responds to the heroine's mood
4) No regard for the heroine's personal space/personal time...yet she is always aroused by it...
5) conviniently possesses whatever skillset the plot requires. If the heroine's car breaks down, he knows how to fix cars, if she misses a flight, he knows how to fly a plane, if she is about to get mugged, the hero is revealed to be a black belt.

I guess...it sorta puzzles me why certain questionable behaviours are tolerated/dersirable in the handsome perfect protagonists of RomComs and erotica...but are demonized in the real world.

I mean yea..Shaft is a male fantasy and if my life turned out like that...I would totally dig it.
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post #17 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VIncymon View Post
Really are those highly rated ?
Most of the fanfiction I have heard from my girlfriend, and female classmates at school usually have male heroes more akin to Twilight and 50 Shades of Grey.

1) Insanely rich
2) Endless sexual prowress
3) Always correctly predicts and responds to the heroine's mood
4) No regard for the heroine's personal space/personal time...yet she is always aroused by it...

I guess...it sorta puzzles me why certain questionable behaviours are tolerated/dersirable in the handsome perfect protagonists of RomComs and erotica...but are demonized in the real world.

I mean yea..Shaft is a male fantasy and if my life turned out like that...I would totally dig it.
Cause he's one bad mutha...

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post #18 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by VIncymon View Post
Really are those highly rated ?
Most of the fanfiction I have heard from my girlfriend, and female classmates at school usually have male heroes more akin to Twilight and 50 Shades of Grey.

1) Insanely rich
2) Endless sexual prowress
3) Always correctly predicts and responds to the heroine's mood
4) No regard for the heroine's personal space/personal time...yet she is always aroused by it...

I guess...it sorta puzzles me why certain questionable behaviours are tolerated/dersirable in the handsome perfect protagonists of RomComs and erotica...but are demonized in the real world.

I mean yea..Shaft is a male fantasy and if my life turned out like that...I would totally dig it.
It's creatively done to the point where it doesn't seem jarring or weird, I just went back to an example from earlier today and then another I remembered (and that was even in the context of a more aggressive mild D/s scenario. That fanfic was very popular in the fandom it was in.) If you imagine it in a very robotic way then no it wouldn't be sexy. Unless a robot fic. I'm kind of into robots actually... Lol....

I spent most of my life reading slash fanfiction (M/M,) which is different in some ways to hetero stuff, but over the last several years I've read more het stuff but slash is a pretty popular genre so can't really discount it from female fantasies anyway so I think I can speak about this.

If you'd like to understand the more popular tropes you can visit this page to see a list:

https://fanlore.org/wiki/List_of_Tropes_in_Fanworks

Large survey that was done:

https://www.fansplaining.com/article...--------------

Quote:
People say a lot of things about fanfiction readers. Three common ideas: they’re just interested in happily ever afters; they’re just interested in gay porn; they’re just interested in radical queer reinterpretation of the Western canon and won’t take no for an answer. All of these things probably have some kernel of truth to them. And naturally, we can see what individual stories people like most: which ones have the most views, the most comments, and the most kudos. But that doesn’t tell us what elements of those stories they like. Not every story engages with fandom’s popular tropes, but many do: tropes can serve as shorthands for themes and plot points across fandom at large. So what do fanfic readers get excited about? Conversely, what makes them click the back button?
At the end of the day fanfiction mostly started out as a thing nerdy women who - usually - wanted to see Spock/Kirk have sex wrote. There's a lot more variety now but it's still somewhat separate from mainstream romance in that there are a lot of tropes in it that are popular that don't really pop up elsewhere to the same degree and it's very big with queer people. Or like people looking for ships/other stuff they're not finding in mainstream stuff.

Surprised by this tbh, (I'm pretty into foeyay shipping lol, but enemies to lovers which is related is number 20 on the list,) but yeah this is awkward for the 'friend zone'



hmm these are least popular:



I kind of like mpreg, like I don't know why people hate it so much it can be interesting in the right context. Though I must admit in my own fantasies if I fantasise about getting someone pregnant they're usually more androgynous than a lot of characters in mpreg fic are.

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post #19 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 05:52 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry. I think we went off into a tangent here. I said fanfic...when I meant to say Romance novels, and Romance novels...but now I can see from your response that fanfic and Romance novels can be very different.
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post #20 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-19-2019, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by VIncymon View Post
...I have heard some female fanfiction from my girlfriend; in most of them the male lead is rich and [email protected] in some skill to fantastic levels, the male lead always makes the dates and innitiates the sex...might I add often in ways that could be interpreted as a metoo moment.

For example...in one part of the story...the beau finds the woman in the dressing room of a mall, enters the dressing room and ...innitiates the deed ...it works on a base level because it shows decisiveness, and a deep sexual desire for the female lead.

How would the above scenario possibly play out in the current "yes means yes" "affirmative consent" society of ours ?

Imagine if instead... he taps on the door, asks "Can I come in ?" ...steps in and asks "can we have ...." etc etc...spontaneity ruined, thrill gone, surprise gone.
Well, fantasies have characteristics that reality lacks. You can enjoy the fantasy of being SHAFT while you watch the movie because you know that you're not in any real danger. If someone gave you a gun and said, "Go be SHAFT" you'd probably say: "No thanks, I'd rather not get shot to hell."

The same applies to fanfiction. A woman can enjoy the fantasy of a man acting like that because she's not in any real danger and is always 100% in control. That's the difference between fiction and reality: 100% control and 0% chance of harm. If you, as a real man, were to do this to a real woman, you would be stripping her of that control and cranking the knob on her anticipated harm to right around max. These experiences are as different as apple pie and apple pie laced with cyanide. Just because they look the same doesn't mean they are the same.

But the fantasy is there, so there must be a reason for it. And many (though far from all) women do enjoy the fantasy of being so overwhelmingly desirable that a man loses control and "can't help himself". But here's the thing: in fantasies (speaking of mainstream romance fiction, not fanfic) that's generally a very specific kind of man.

For some reason, many men draw the wrong conclusion about what traits are actually important to the fantasy. They think that it's the man's willingness to violate a woman's boundaries that is attractive (ie. that he's an arrogant jerk); but the fantasy is generally specifically about the woman overwhelming a man's innate respect for her boundaries (ie. being too desirable for even a good man to resist).

With very few exceptions, that man always puts the woman's safety and happiness above everything else. Even (basically always) above his own life. The men in women's fiction are, with very few exceptions, very good men. They're often impossibly good and noble men, who just also happen to be handsome, powerful, rich, bold, talented or whatever. Even the "badboys" are almost always acting from noble intentions (think Robin Hood, not Charles Manson). You'll find very few players, cheaters, or wife-beaters as love interests in women's fiction. Those men are almost always the enemy -- the men that the woman is 'rescued' from by the love interest.

PUAs, Red Pillers, and Incels have all of this rather comically misinterpreted and have developed a distorted picture of women's preferences. They're all running around trying to be the villains of women's fiction -- Gaston, as opposed to the Beast. I suspect because they're not really interested in fulfilling women's fantasies, but in satisfying their own male fantasies and using a funhouse mirror image of women's fantasies to justify them.

Are you sure you want to permanently delete this culture? [Yes] [No]
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