Does Torture Work? - Social Anxiety Forum
View Poll Results: Does torture work?
Yes 3 17.65%
No 9 52.94%
No, but it's fun 4 23.53%
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-15-2018, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
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Does Torture Work?


Trump's nominee to be CIA director Gina Haspel said that she does not believe torture works.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...s-torture-work

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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-15-2018, 07:05 PM
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Torture will get people to talk because they'll say anything to make it stop. Whether you actually get any reliable information this way is debatable. They say waterboarding Khalid Sheik Mohammed got him to give up Bin Laden's courrier which eventually led to Bin Laden himself. In that instance it worked. It's debatable if he would have ever given up that info otherwise.

Personally, I think it should only be used in extreme circumstances. But it should be available to use and should have to be approved by the Secretary of Defense and the President himself.

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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-15-2018, 07:20 PM
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Ask Pol Pot. Of course it works. It works so well even INNOCENT people will squeal.

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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-15-2018, 08:00 PM
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I dunno, but if it's not legal for me to torture people who piss me off then the government should probably at the very least have a good reason for being allowed to do it.

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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-16-2018, 11:51 AM
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People will literally say anything when put under enough stress/physical pain. It's really not helpful to anyone involved.

slow progress is still progress.
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-16-2018, 12:12 PM
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Hmmm. Gina Haspel? I confess (with no torture required to extract said confession) that I haven't been paying any more attention to the goings on up there in the government than I absolutely have had to. So I have never heard of her. So I had to look her up. I read some of her Wikipedia page and it looks like the same old **** you always see on the Wikipedia page of someone who's in one of the alphabet agencies. No doubt most of her official bio has been carefully concocted and so forth. I mean, would it really make any sense to put someone in charge of the CIA whose entire life history could be read on Wikipedia by anyone with an internet connection.

So yeah. It's a given that this person is a monster with a real mean streak deep down. I mean, that is what is required for the job, right?

Does torture work? I would say that it does if your goal is to get the subject to say whatever it takes to make it stop. I don't know about you but if someone was torturing me I would definitely lie if I thought it would make them stop. Of course I'm sure that in many cases they have ways of knowing when their victim is lying. But then you get into messy territory such as the possibility that the subject is completely innocent and really doesn't know anything at all. Which is a really terrifying possibility.

I don't know. Sure. I suppose it "works" to some degree if they actually have the right person. I personally just don't like to think about it.

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-16-2018, 12:33 PM
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Why isn't that helpful to the torturer? Lets say he kidnaps a guy and wants to drain the guy's bank account from an ATM. He gives the guy tea and cookies and nicely asks for the PIN so he can withdraw $10,000. The victim tells the kidnapper to GTH. Kidnapper gets out a knife, cuts the guy's face up and says he will dig out an eye if her doesn't give up the PIN. Won't he give up the PIN under torture? Maybe he gives a fake PIN. Then the kidnapper goes to the ATM and finds out it's fake. He then digs the guy's eye out and says if he doesn't get the real PIN he will dig the other eye out. I can't imagine anyone not breaking under torture and giving up his PIN.
He'd give the PIN for one of McDonald's tasty oatmeal cookies.

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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-16-2018, 12:36 PM
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And if you replace sissy tea with one of the turtle coffe things McDonald's cooked up...the dude would probably give him a BJ.

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-16-2018, 12:49 PM
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Why isn't that helpful to the torturer? Lets say he kidnaps a guy and wants to drain the guy's bank account from an ATM. He gives the guy tea and cookies and nicely asks for the PIN so he can withdraw $10,000. The victim tells the kidnapper to GTH. Kidnapper gets out a knife, cuts the guy's face up and says he will dig out an eye if her doesn't give up the PIN. Won't he give up the PIN under torture? Maybe he gives a fake PIN. Then the kidnapper goes to the ATM and finds out it's fake. He then digs the guy's eye out and says if he doesn't get the real PIN he will dig the other eye out. I can't imagine anyone not breaking under torture and giving up his PIN.
You're missing something. If our actual government is doing this kind of thing, how could they justify putting criminals in prison for doing the same thing? Let's say the poor criminal has bills to pay and has no way of doing it without resorting to crime. So he finds someone who has enough to pay his bills, kidnaps them and tortures them into submission and pays his bills. Pretty much his life was on the line so he did what he had to. Right?

You see where this is going? You're never going to be the good guy if you're doing something most people would be ashamed of doing even if they had to. At that point, you're just a bigger, meaner terrorist with more resources.

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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-16-2018, 12:52 PM
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Hmmm. Gina Haspel? I confess (with no torture required to extract said confession) that I haven't been paying any more attention to the goings on up there in the government than I absolutely have had to. So I have never heard of her. So I had to look her up. I read some of her Wikipedia page and it looks like the same old **** you always see on the Wikipedia page of someone who's in one of the alphabet agencies. No doubt most of her official bio has been carefully concocted and so forth. I mean, would it really make any sense to put someone in charge of the CIA whose entire life history could be read on Wikipedia by anyone with an internet connection.

So yeah. It's a given that this person is a monster with a real mean streak deep down. I mean, that is what is required for the job, right?

Does torture work? I would say that it does if your goal is to get the subject to say whatever it takes to make it stop. I don't know about you but if someone was torturing me I would definitely lie if I thought it would make them stop. Of course I'm sure that in many cases they have ways of knowing when their victim is lying. But then you get into messy territory such as the possibility that the subject is completely innocent and really doesn't know anything at all. Which is a really terrifying possibility.

I don't know. Sure. I suppose it "works" to some degree if they actually have the right person. I personally just don't like to think about it.
Yeah reminds me of this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/20...617/index.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gu%C3%...eirfinnur_case

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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-16-2018, 01:01 PM
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-16-2018, 02:13 PM
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I think this forum is evidence enough. Yes, eventually torture will turn you into a masochistic **** coming back for more.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-16-2018, 02:50 PM
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Cops break the law all the time and the guys they catch still go to prison.
https://www.stanfordlawreview.org/pr...tion-in-crime/

Torture is still used in psychiatric 'hospitals' today - by using drugs. They call them 'meds' but the side effects absolutely count as torture.
I wouldn't argue with either of those. The second one in particular is the biggest reason I have serious misgivings with the entire idea of psychiatry.

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What about reversing the situation and have it be the 'good guy' doing the torturing? Like in Dirty Harry where he tortured the punk to find out where the girl was buried?
But of course that was just a movie and the viewer did not have to wonder whether or not "Harry" was the good guy. IOW, it wasn't real life. In the real world, would you trust a guy like that (I'm not sure I really want to know)?

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Would you let your parents suffocate or would you torture the punk who buried them?
You know. I have always noticed that your posts tend to have a sinister tone to them. Either you're putting a lot of effort into making disturbing posts or.....

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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-16-2018, 02:57 PM
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lol my vote was a jk.
But in all seriousness, it works really well.


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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-16-2018, 03:00 PM
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Torture only works in American movies and tv shows.
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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-17-2018, 05:47 AM
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Torture only works if you already know what you are trying to get them to tell you.

What's wrong with running away from reality if it sucks?

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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-17-2018, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarpia View Post
Why isn't that helpful to the torturer? Lets say he kidnaps a guy and wants to drain the guy's bank account from an ATM. He gives the guy tea and cookies and nicely asks for the PIN so he can withdraw $10,000. The victim tells the kidnapper to GTH. Kidnapper gets out a knife, cuts the guy's face up and says he will dig out an eye if her doesn't give up the PIN. Won't he give up the PIN under torture? Maybe he gives a fake PIN. Then the kidnapper goes to the ATM and finds out it's fake. He then digs the guy's eye out and says if he doesn't get the real PIN he will dig the other eye out. I can't imagine anyone not breaking under torture and giving up his PIN.
Well if you have that situation (specific type of information, a very tight feedback loop) - maybe. But I was under the impression like WillYouStopDave, that we were talking about governments?

slow progress is still progress.
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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-17-2018, 02:10 PM
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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-17-2018, 02:18 PM
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I imagine it works if the victim knows you have no legal limitations and no moral qualms. I'm sure allowing some forms of torture but nothing too extreme will compromise its effectiveness, not because you're not using brutal methods but because the victim knows you can only do so much, and is willing to hold out. If I knew the process would start with tickle torture and end with an acid bath, I'd spill the beans before they could fetch the feathers.
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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-06-2019, 11:36 PM
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fully able to comprehend the words torture & 'does'(although 100% redundant trivia & meaningless!) but never able to know what this word "WORK" means!! WURQ??? FFUNCCTION √√√
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