update on Nardil! back from long absence, talk about long-term effects of Nardil, etc - Social Anxiety Forum
 
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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-15-2015, 10:29 AM Thread Starter
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update on Nardil! back from long absence, talk about long-term effects of Nardil, etc


It's been a good while since I posted here on SAS, been busy with school & work so haven't had much time to contribute.

Still taking Nardil, at this point in time it's been two years and a month on the drug. My viewpoint these days of it is that it helps me still staying focused and calmer somewhat in all aspects of my life, as it keeps me positive and looking ahead versus ruminating on things long since passed (a big issue for me prior to being on medication).

However; I will say that without a doubt, after being on 60mg for these two years it has definitely reached it's peak of effect and leveled out so greatly that to some extent I might even go as far to say I'm only being 'helped' possibly 25-30% by it's actions. The old carefree sociability and sense of wonder first experienced has faded, leaving behind a static benefit of treading water just above the horizon of a depressive state.

As such, I'm currently looking into alternative options. This post is not meant to discourage anyone from beginning on Nardil or an MAOI! Rather, that Parnate overall might be a more-suitable first try... and that also, if you have a positive response from Nardil as I did, utilize the year's worth or so of maximum effect from it to start building a social group and bonds with people to have a close circle of support when the benefit may lessen. I'm happy to say that I've got a great group of close friends now in my life who are there for me throughout struggles, be it anything from the trials of college education or dealing with romantic relationships. The beauty of Nardil is it sort of frees your mind from the viewpoint of people constantly judging your words & actions (at least, that's what it did for me). I started seeing more and more clearly how people in today's society are no less perfect than I am. An open mind is key to making attachments.

Anyways I'm rambling at this point, apologies. It may sound ridiculous or far-fetched, but at some point this upcoming year (2016) my plan is to get off Nardil and begin utilizing more 'as-needed' solutions, such as Kratom and Kava, which from my personal experiences can be used to great effect as anxiolytics and mood brighteners without many downsides, if any at all. This, in conjunction with other supplements such as L-Carnitine injections (first learned about from DatBTrue as a means of enhancing mood through modulation of serotonin and dopamine, as well as being a great workout adjunct for building muscle), occasional usage of Marijuana with friends, perhaps some mild attempts at psychedelic usage for introspection, etc. Just living life overall, honestly.

I believe Nardil and MAOIs/antidepressants in general are a great tool to be used when needed. It's just that in my own usage, I've experienced a lessening of effect over time and found other things which seem to work better for myself.


I'm convinced after reading through countless articles on PubMed, and hearing lectures on the subject that many cases of depression (NOT ALL, but many subtypes) is due to inflammation in the body/brain.
I HIGHLY recommend those of you who wish to look into it further read the NCBI study called Is Depression an Inflammatory Disorder? --> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21927805


Microdoses of psychedelics such as LSD and psilocybin have also caught my eye recently. A good deal of papers and studies conducted are revealing just how effective they can be for treating anxiety and depression; as well as of course Ketamine and ayahuasca.


Long story short; MAOIs work extremely well for at least a period of time, perhaps much longer-term for some than I experienced. But they are not the only option! So don't be afraid to explore and find what works for you
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-15-2015, 10:49 AM
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NO KETAMINE! well don't inject me with it. long story short Doc didn't want to use Anesthesia and said he was going to give me Ketamine instead and I found myself in space. Non existent. waking up the doc chuckled and said "you kept mumbling am I alive?" A hole!!

Anyway, I'm not one for psychedelics but I tried psilocybin last summer and it was like being wrapped up in a warm blanket. I found your "thread" VERY interesting. May I join your cult?
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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-17-2015, 07:53 PM
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Glad to read an update @hworth . Agree that inflammation and dysregulation of the HPA axis, is a huge component of many cases of depression. Good luck with your taper!

Medication-related posts are for brainstorming purposes only. Talk to your doctor.

My meds: Parnate, Lamictal, Wellbutrin, trazodone
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-18-2015, 09:06 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caedmon View Post
Glad to read an update @hworth . Agree that inflammation and dysregulation of the HPA axis, is a huge component of many cases of depression. Good luck with your taper!
Nice to hear from you, Caedmon You've always been one of the most knowledgeable members of the Medication forums here.

I'm curious, in your opinion what are the most effective methods for correcting dysregulation of the HPA axis? There are so many new recent revelations that I'm inspired by (Ketamine studies showing it's efficacy long-term, anecdotal reports of people being 'cured' of their anxiety by low doses of psychedelics such as LSD, MDMA, etc along with studies being conducted by MAPS, NMDA antagonists like Memantine and of course ketamine again.) Lamictal, too, if I recall correctly has some profound correctional abilities on the HPA axis; if only I could tolerate the brain fog That would probably be an issue with myself if I ever try Ketamine, too lol

I even read something about Creatine, the workout supplement, having an identical effect in some roundabout complicated fashion as does Ketamine on depressive behaviors..? NCBI link --> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26660117

Hoping you see this post so I can pick your brain
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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-18-2015, 09:09 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mocha latte View Post
NO KETAMINE! well don't inject me with it. long story short Doc didn't want to use Anesthesia and said he was going to give me Ketamine instead and I found myself in space. Non existent. waking up the doc chuckled and said "you kept mumbling am I alive?" A hole!!

Anyway, I'm not one for psychedelics but I tried psilocybin last summer and it was like being wrapped up in a warm blanket. I found your "thread" VERY interesting. May I join your cult?
Lol, my apologies if I came across as being overly-encouraging of psychedelic use as a means for treatment of mental disorders. I am not at all saying it's a factual claim that they 'cure' anything; just my two cents derived from personal experience and exciting scientific research being conducted.

Sounds like you had one hell of a K-hole trip at the doc's office..
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-18-2015, 09:19 PM
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I'm curious, in your opinion what are the most effective methods for correcting dysregulation of the HPA axis?
I started to write a bunch about it but realized it's probably easier and better to go to the source. Look up The Anatomy and Physiology of the Human Stress Response, by Everly and Lating (2012). Should be able to google up a pdf of it pretty easily. Once I read this article I went "aha! Now I get how this all works!"

No really, this article is great.

One might need to get an endocrine workup with a physician.

Healing up the HPA axis is helped along by:
  • Improving cognitive appraisals and thinking style (this is actually superordinate to the rest!)
  • Learn to break rumination cycles
  • Sleeping well
  • Getting aerobic exercise
  • Having coping strategies
  • Fish oil - 1000-2000 mg EPA
  • Some psych meds

NRIs, SNRIs, trazodone, mirtazipine are helpful for chronic stress issues. MAOIs are great options for anxiety and depression though not helpful for HPA axis hypersensitivity. If on MAOIs you need to be sure to get adequate sleep, rest, healthy weight, avoid hypomania.

Some non-antidepressants probably. Sometimes thyroid needs tweaking upwards. There's more I'm sure, that's just off the top of my head. (Heck, I have a funny theory about Allegra (fexofenadine) being potentially helpful! but that's really off topic and obscure.)

Behavioral strategies & cognitive appraisals(above bullets) are the MOST important area to focus on.

Medication-related posts are for brainstorming purposes only. Talk to your doctor.

My meds: Parnate, Lamictal, Wellbutrin, trazodone
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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-20-2015, 06:24 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caedmon View Post
I started to write a bunch about it but realized it's probably easier and better to go to the source. Look up The Anatomy and Physiology of the Human Stress Response, by Everly and Lating (2012). Should be able to google up a pdf of it pretty easily. Once I read this article I went "aha! Now I get how this all works!"

No really, this article is great.

One might need to get an endocrine workup with a physician.

Healing up the HPA axis is helped along by:
  • Improving cognitive appraisals and thinking style (this is actually superordinate to the rest!)
  • Learn to break rumination cycles
  • Sleeping well
  • Getting aerobic exercise
  • Having coping strategies
  • Fish oil - 1000-2000 mg EPA
  • Some psych meds

NRIs, SNRIs, trazodone, mirtazipine are helpful for chronic stress issues. MAOIs are great options for anxiety and depression though not helpful for HPA axis hypersensitivity. If on MAOIs you need to be sure to get adequate sleep, rest, healthy weight, avoid hypomania.

Some non-antidepressants probably. Sometimes thyroid needs tweaking upwards. There's more I'm sure, that's just off the top of my head. (Heck, I have a funny theory about Allegra (fexofenadine) being potentially helpful! but that's really off topic and obscure.)

Behavioral strategies & cognitive appraisals(above bullets) are the MOST important area to focus on.

Thank you so much for taking the time to write that up Caedmon I've previously read about the 1,000-2,000mg of fish oil, must be solid advice. Supposedly the best form for supplementation is EPA? (As you stated). Also, I concur that excercise is crucial.

Not sure that I agree thought processes are responsible to such an extent, but it is only because I tried for a number of years when I was younger to stop the rumination/depressive thoughts by thinking positively and escaping the pattern to no avail; maybe I've got some undeying HPA axis issue which is more physiological in nature than psychological. Regardless, I still don't think that medications are overall the answer, or psychedelics for that matter unless they ultimately address and fix the issue which might be causing the cognitive + mental issues in the first place.
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