Parnate VS Nardil decision - Social Anxiety Forum
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-12-2020, 02:36 PM Thread Starter
SAS Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 8

Parnate VS Nardil decision


After being on Nardil for a long time about 2 years ago, my doctor decided to start with a MOA inhibitor again.

I was on 90mg nardil before but did not get many positive effects. Tried 105mg for a few weeks but didnt notice any difference.

Medication that have sedating effects also make me more anxious, like i have less control.

For example Benzodiazepines also have no positive effect on my anxiety. (Tried Klonopin 2mg, lorazepam 2.5mg and doesnt have any effect at all for me. (Even tried higher doses like 6mg clonazepam , 40mg diazepam, 5mg lorazepam and didnt notice anything. Maybe slightly tired but 1 Coffee and it is all good again.

This makes me think that my social anxiety is not related to GABA inbalance but some other neurotransmitter inbalance.

Now my doctor has to make a choice :

Put me on Nardil again and go for maximum dosage to see if this will benefit me or go for Parnate.

I read Parnate is more stimulating / activating, and might be the thing i need to reduce my anxiety..

Can anyone share some opinions / experience on my thoughts about it ?

I think Nardil is not the right med for my problems, or maybe not strong enough to give me Real noticable effects.

Is parnate more powerfull compared to nardil?

The plan is to start with either Parnate or Nardil soon.

Thanks
cmalo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-13-2020, 06:08 AM
UnDeRrAtED
 
CopadoMexicano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Half Empty-Half-Full
Language: SPanish and English fluently
Gender: Male
Age: 35
Posts: 34,255
From my experience on being on this forum ive noticed many posts saying parnate is the gold standard" for depression while nardil being generally targeted towards social anxiety. For me ive never been on both since many if not all doctors in my area refuse to prescribe those class of psych meds because they simply think "very dangerous". Ive struggled more with a mood disorder then a anxiety disorder but still have fluctuations with mood swings and drastic changes in energy. Of course your physician would know a lot more then someone on this site to give advice but my input in intended for info not medical advice.

All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence and than success is sure," Mark Twain

-------------------------------------------------------
CopadoMexicano is offline  
post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-13-2020, 09:18 AM
SAS Member
 
Ben12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,150
My Mood: Cool
@cmalo

Parnate isn't stronger than nardil. However it is still strong. It lacks the GABA properties that nardil has though. Have you ever tried effexor or adderall? Mind you I would give parnate a shot before going the effexor route. You can even augment the parnate with adderall. Best of luck.
Ben12 is offline  
 
post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-13-2020, 10:53 AM
SAS Member
 
Captainmycaptain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Marianas Trench
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben12 View Post
@cmalo

Parnate isn't stronger than nardil. However it is still strong. It lacks the GABA properties that nardil has though. Have you ever tried effexor or adderall? Mind you I would give parnate a shot before going the effexor route. You can even augment the parnate with adderall. Best of luck.
I was taking Nardil and dextroamphetamine and I kept falling over. I was fall down at least thirty times a day.

Nardil 75 mg/day (22.5 mg in the morning, 22.5 mg in the afternoon, 30 mg at night)
Seroquel 200 mg/night (100 mg to get to sleep, 100 mg in the middle of the night)
Captainmycaptain is offline  
post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-15-2020, 09:14 AM
SAS Member
 
Ben12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,150
My Mood: Cool
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captainmycaptain View Post
I was taking Nardil and dextroamphetamine and I kept falling over. I was fall down at least thirty times a day.
Yeah Nardil has many side effects. That's what is nice about parnate. It has been reported to have less side effects and is better tolerated. I would also think that adderall would work better alongside parnate over nardil. GABA would alter the effects of dextroamphetamine. Probably also reducing the dextroamphetamines effectiveness. Your response doesn't surprise me.
Ben12 is offline  
post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-19-2020, 04:13 AM
S F C 0 1
 
D'avjo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Straight outta not giving a ****sville
Language: English
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,347
My Mood: Amused
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmalo View Post
After being on Nardil for a long time about 2 years ago, my doctor decided to start with a MOA inhibitor again.

I was on 90mg nardil before but did not get many positive effects. Tried 105mg for a few weeks but didnt notice any difference.

Medication that have sedating effects also make me more anxious, like i have less control.

For example Benzodiazepines also have no positive effect on my anxiety. (Tried Klonopin 2mg, lorazepam 2.5mg and doesnt have any effect at all for me. (Even tried higher doses like 6mg clonazepam , 40mg diazepam, 5mg lorazepam and didnt notice anything. Maybe slightly tired but 1 Coffee and it is all good again.

This makes me think that my social anxiety is not related to GABA inbalance but some other neurotransmitter inbalance.

Now my doctor has to make a choice :

Put me on Nardil again and go for maximum dosage to see if this will benefit me or go for Parnate.

I read Parnate is more stimulating / activating, and might be the thing i need to reduce my anxiety..

Can anyone share some opinions / experience on my thoughts about it ?

I think Nardil is not the right med for my problems, or maybe not strong enough to give me Real noticable effects.

Is parnate more powerfull compared to nardil?

The plan is to start with either Parnate or Nardil soon.

Thanks

No it isnt more powerful just some different pharmacology.


I have been on both and I wouldnt say parnate is notably more stimulating than nardil


One issue to be aware of is that parnate is usually prescribed up to 30 / 40 mg and this could be enough for some people but it can take double that to work. I would say the majority of pdocs etc would probably say no to going past 40mg. For some, it can take 100mg plus before they see the real benefit. Gillman Fan who used to post here was up to 160mg I think.


He had a very good relationship with what seemed a very good pdoc. You may not have that and just get stuck at 30mg.


Nardil for me was clearly better than parnate ( i was allowed 40mg). Although my GAD never came back, I started to feel my mood going to that dark zone now and again so came off it, and went back to nardil.

**** your feelings !!


SFC
D'avjo is online now  
post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-19-2020, 04:21 AM
S F C 0 1
 
D'avjo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Straight outta not giving a ****sville
Language: English
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,347
My Mood: Amused
D'avjo is online now  
post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-19-2020, 12:23 PM
SAS Member
 
Ben12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,150
My Mood: Cool
Wow that was nice thankyou. I've been on zoloft and I must say that it really didn't feel like a dopaminergic at all. Wellbutrin feels more like a noradrenergic and a weak one.
Ben12 is offline  
post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-19-2020, 12:57 PM
S F C 0 1
 
D'avjo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Straight outta not giving a ****sville
Language: English
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,347
My Mood: Amused
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben12 View Post
Wow that was nice thankyou. I've been on zoloft and I must say that it really didn't feel like a dopaminergic at all. Wellbutrin feels more like a noradrenergic and a weak one.

Sertraline has no meaningful effect on dopamine. I know it does have some DRI action, but the SRI properties completely overwhelm it. With buproprion, it is actually a lot stronger noradrenergic than a dopaminergic.


If you stay on sertraline, you could add modafinil or armodafinil. They have a reasonable dopaminergic effect -


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16855454/


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16855454/


edit: not sure you are on sertraline anymore to stay on it. But the modafanil stuff will apply to any other antidepressant too. Even MAOIs

**** your feelings !!


SFC
D'avjo is online now  
post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-19-2020, 09:28 PM
SAS Member
 
Ben12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,150
My Mood: Cool
Quote:
Originally Posted by D'avjo View Post

edit: not sure you are on sertraline anymore to stay on it. But the modafanil stuff will apply to any other antidepressant too. Even MAOIs
I take effexor 225mg and adderall 30mg each day.
Ben12 is offline  
post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-19-2020, 09:40 PM
S F C 0 1
 
D'avjo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Straight outta not giving a ****sville
Language: English
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,347
My Mood: Amused
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben12 View Post
I take effexor 225mg and adderall 30mg each day.

Ok mate, sorry, you probably mentioned it before on another thread but may have slipped my mind !!

**** your feelings !!


SFC
D'avjo is online now  
post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-20-2020, 12:38 AM
SAS Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Earth
Gender: Male
Posts: 536
I was on Nardil for 6.5 years (mostly on 60mg) till recently (before the current shortage/backorder of Nardil forced me to switch to Parnate).

For me personally, Parnate is just as effective (its only been 4 months since I started Parnate) as Nardil. Regarding side effects, I experienced weight gain (even though I try to watch my diet and workout regulary) and chronic insomnia.

On Parnate, the insomnia is a bit worse (2-3 hours of sleep vs 3-4 of sleep on Nardil). I do have to take other drugs to help me sleep and rotate them regularly to avoid tolerance, so that's something to keep int the back of your mind as you might have to do ... mind you I have come across plenty of posts that some users didn't experience insomnia or weight gain (or it went away after a few months) so its a personal thing and dont let it deter you if you can get it prescribed as they can be very helpful drugs for social anxiety and depression which go hand in hand.

Hope my answer helps a bit, I'd say odds are pretty whichever you go with. Good luck!
Burnaby is offline  
post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-20-2020, 12:40 PM
SAS Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Alberta
Gender: Male
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnaby View Post
I was on Nardil for 6.5 years (mostly on 60mg) till recently (before the current shortage/backorder of Nardil forced me to switch to Parnate).

For me personally, Parnate is just as effective (its only been 4 months since I started Parnate) as Nardil. Regarding side effects, I experienced weight gain (even though I try to watch my diet and workout regulary) and chronic insomnia.

On Parnate, the insomnia is a bit worse (2-3 hours of sleep vs 3-4 of sleep on Nardil). I do have to take other drugs to help me sleep and rotate them regularly to avoid tolerance, so that's something to keep int the back of your mind as you might have to do ... mind you I have come across plenty of posts that some users didn't experience insomnia or weight gain (or it went away after a few months) so its a personal thing and dont let it deter you if you can get it prescribed as they can be very helpful drugs for social anxiety and depression which go hand in hand.

Hope my answer helps a bit, I'd say odds are pretty whichever you go with. Good luck!
I have been on Nardil since 1986. In Canada there should be a new batch of Nardil out any day, but how much and for how long is the question. My understanding is that the underlying ingredient shortage problem has not been solved, When I run out I plan a cold turkey 14 day withdrawal (with some help from clonazepam) and will switch to Wellbutrin. My brother has similar symptoms and he switched from Nardil to Wellbutrin years ago. As I have never been on anything but Nardil, my Dr is hopeful that other options out there will work for me. I realize this is not the same situation as people who have been on many different drugs and then hit on Nardil as the only one that worked.

One odd thing about the Nardil shortage is that there is guidance out there for Drs not to prescribe to new patients (makes sense), for pharmacies not to order it in if they don't have anyone on nardil (makes sense), and for patients to wean off off nardil.... The last one seems tough. I have supply until Aug 7th and then I am out. How can I (1) try to hang in and hope resupply arrives in time and (2) wean off.. I can't have both of these things or I should have started weaning off already, and why would I want that grief with supply coming..

https://healthycanadians.gc.ca/recal...73411a-eng.php
Golf72 is offline  
post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-20-2020, 10:45 PM
SAS Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Earth
Gender: Male
Posts: 536
I agree with you Golf72, it is scary to know that sooner than later the production of MAOI"s will come to an end as they are not money makers to the pharma industry... the pharma industry is one of the most corrupt that I can think of and this goes beyond just psychiatric medication.

I just want you to know about my experience as I didn't think Parnate will do anything (not sure if you have tried it already). I consulted with Dr. Gillman and he recommended to switch from Nardil to Parnate. How I did this was to proceed cautiously and I reduced Nardil by one tablet and instead 1 tablet of parnate and stayed on it for like 2 days and then I reduced Nardil by another tablet and substituted with Nardil and in about 8 days I was only on Parnate and did not experience any side effects at all, I mean zero!

We all have our preferences regarding either Nardil or Parnate but I definitely recommend that before switching to another drug, try Parnate and you don't need the washout period (Please refer to Dr. Gillmans website https://psychotropical.com) and so your enzymes will not come out of inhibition to feel the withdrawal effects (unless an individual is very sensitive to Parnate, but it's worth a try if you do it cautiously).

Now, my word is not the word of a psychiatrist or an expert and I don't want anyone to rely on what worked for me. I do believe Dr. Gillman is the foremost expert on MAOI's (Apparently even Stahl agrees and mentioned that in one of his big seminars) and he has all this info on his website.

Even if you try Parnate and don't feel its as effective as Nardil but will get you by without experiencing any withdrawal you can continue to stay on Parnate till Nardil is available and switching between the two should not be a problem (again, I would consult a professional but all the material is from the past, hence that's why I sought Dr. Gillmans advice). He doesn't usually answer emails unless they are short and needs a quick answer so I would urge you to skype him. He is very friendly and one of the nicest individuals you can meet. There are other options that he can guide you with, and if Wellbutrin has worked for your brother maybe it will work for you and I really hope this supply issue will be behind us soon.
Burnaby is offline  
post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-23-2020, 10:16 PM
SAS Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Alberta
Gender: Male
Posts: 17
Hi Burnaby

I will take a look at the link. My issue is not really SA so I am not as concerned as others here might be about Nardil being the only option for me, though it may turn out to be (or have been....lol , the very best). I have been on it a long time and if I have to go off it and try something like Wellbrutrin or something in a non MAOI class the so be it. If it works then I don't have to plan around the continued uncertainty. Also, I have been a relatively small dose of Nardil ever since I started (30mg a day). That is giving me some hope, but that could be false hope I guess. I could be making an assumption that because I am on a relatively small dose, that my transition will be easier. But, that may not be the case at all.

Anyway, I am not a big believer in fate, but with respect to Nardil I often wiah I had completely cleared and tried something else years ago. I know from past attempts to taper off that I will need something. So, I have kind of accepted the fact that I will be on Nardil until it runs out. So, while the switch to Parnate looks tempting the way you describe it, I think I will have the supports I need to get through a clearing period and on to something else. Whether that something else works -- well that is a whole other question.

I do worry I may never be where I am now, but if that happens and Parnate is still around, that could be where I will end up.



Thx for your post... take care.
Golf72 is offline  
post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-23-2020, 11:11 PM
SAS Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 40
Its weird how terrible the marketing for MAOIs has been, and how brilliant it has been for SSRIs. It seems like every doctor thinks that you will die after one bit of cheese on a MAOI. MAOIs have been around for 30 years before SSRIs, that should be long enough to see how well they work. I am stunned at how meds that are clearly better than SSRIs are likely to go out of production permanently.
nb89 is offline  
post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-23-2020, 11:42 PM
S F C 0 1
 
D'avjo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Straight outta not giving a ****sville
Language: English
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,347
My Mood: Amused
Quote:
Originally Posted by nb89 View Post
Its weird how terrible the marketing for MAOIs has been, and how brilliant it has been for SSRIs. It seems like every doctor thinks that you will die after one bit of cheese on a MAOI. MAOIs have been around for 30 years before SSRIs, that should be long enough to see how well they work. I am stunned at how meds that are clearly better than SSRIs are likely to go out of production permanently.

Yeah its pathetic really and hopefully they will stay in production


I'm gonna send a load of info re nardil being safe, great, etc to some local surgeries, and any other establishments concerned with mental health etc.

**** your feelings !!


SFC
D'avjo is online now  
post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-27-2020, 01:27 AM
SAS Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Earth
Gender: Male
Posts: 536
Goodluck Golf72, do keep us updated and prayers and good energy your way, it will work itself out somehow and Im hopeful.
Burnaby is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome