Nardil rocks - Nardil for Soc. Anx Testimony - Part II - Social Anxiety Forum
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
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Nardil rocks - Nardil for Soc. Anx Testimony - Part II


Continued -

So, here is what happened after I started taking 75 mg Nardil from Apr 5th. I'd say the first week on 75 mg I almost felt nothing; no positive no negative side effects either. Well, I was prepared for the worst side effects - Insomnia, Poor Libido, Erectile Dysfunction, Inorgasmia, Constipation, etc.... I read somewhere that Unisom (Doxilamine Succinate) is the best for insomnia I was ready for it. I heard all the sexual side effects don't last for any longer than 2.5 - 3 months. For constipation - Dulcolax rectal suppositories. etc... Actually got all info regarding the management of side effects from 'The Greenhorn's Guide To Nardil' - colonelpoop/Aries on socialanxietysupport.com. It was kind of useful.

Alright, so the 2nd week on 75 mg -

-ve Side Effects:

i) Poor Libido, Erectile Dysfunction, Inorgasmia - Quite annoying; but I just couldn't afford to quit Nardil no matter what.
ii) Mild Constipation (I'd poop every alternate day.)

Neutral Side Effects:

So this is the most misleading and dangerous side effect of all. So why dangerous?? It can deceive you into quitting Nardil; I'd say thats worse than whatever else. I guess everyone gets this and I got fooled myself - So, heres what it is.. I got a hypomania somewhere the middle of the 2nd week. Hypomania - Almost the other extreme of Depression; my mood was so good; I'd think so positive, I got a sense of false self-confidence. Made me kinda foolishly arrogant around people, had more energy, false sense of well being (But if I looked carefully the social anxiety was still there). Honestly, I was deceived into thinking that Nardil had begun to work already; so I was like looking to feel better every second.

3rd Week -

-ve side effects:

i) Sexual Side effects remain.
ii) Constipation getting worse.

Neutral: Hypomania was still there - again made me think this was it..

4th Week -

-ve side effects:

i) Sexual Side effects remain.
ii) Constipation getting worse. Stools getting harder and now I was pooping once in 2 days.

Neutral: Now it was like the worst nightmare.. Hypomania begins to fade away real slow. That started making me doubt if Nardil really works or not. I guess by the end of the 4th week there was almost no Hypomania whatsoever at all - Now again I started feeling -ve, not even the false sense of confidence or well-being was anywhere to be found.

But I still had given myself a deadline of 3-4 months before I quit Nardil; because I knew from my past experience even the regular antidepressants like fluoxemine or Wellbutrin would take for me 3 months to show significant improvement in Depression. So, if was willing to give Wellbutrin a 3 months chance I'd be unfair if I didn't give the same time for Nardil before I quit. So I stuck with it.

5th week -

-ve side effect:-

i) Erectile Dysfunction was gone now completely. But poor libido and Inorgasmia still remain.
ii) Constipation is now much worse...( I started to force my poop out; the stools are really hard and painful to pass.)
iii) Here is a new one now: Orthostatic Hypotension - Started getting dizzy on occasions like I've been driving for long and suddenly get out of the car. But it was quite manageable. And really this new change kind of gave me some hope that 'I don't know maybe the Nardil chemicals are still reacting with my brain cells.'

No positive/neutral effects.

6th week:

-ve side effects:

i) Poor libido getting better. Inorgasmia was still a pain.
ii) Constipation getting worse and worse.. Went ahead and bought myself Dulcolax rectal Suppositories. Haven't used till date however - but I know I have to give it a try someday real soon.
iii) Orthostatic Hypotension now getting even worse.. I once got out of the bed in the night to pee and lost my balance in the bathroom and banged myself against the restroom door. Seriously this scared the crap out of me. I thought of stopping Nardil, didn't want to break my bones or my head for the sake of social anxiety. However - heres what I did to overcome this terrifying side effect: I began to notice I just had to be a bit more subtle while changing positions like from reclining to standing up or even sitting to standing up. I would not simply push myself out of the bed anymore. I'll stay in the seated position for maybe a minute before I stand up. No sudden movements. I promise just that small change has almost eliminated ortho hypotension altogether.

Positive effects: Now was the best part. Without my own knowing I had become extremely productive at work; I was once again getting assertive with people, started taking leadership for the first time after I stopped Klonopin. The best part - I was now striking up random conversations with random strangers. But my 2nd week experience with Hypomania kind of failed to convince me it was Nardil for certain now. In reality I was almost feeling like on 8mg Klonopin.

May 21st 2011 (almost 6/5 weeks) -

-ve side effects: Same as above.

+ve effects: For the first time I noticed a huge change in my personality. I was now not merely assertive like I would normally be on Klonopin even at 8mg. I was even tactfully aggressive with people; not foolishly arrogant. I could think much clearer. At work when it comes to talking a business deal.. well I'd hardly talk and I'd give in to the more powerful opponent in an argument. Because that's me socially anxious and weak around people.
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 12:29 PM Thread Starter
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But no joking I was surprised myself on May 21st, I fixed a deal with 10 people trying to put me down and arguing seriously with me. I was so patient and I explained the entire procedure related to the deal.. now I was like really strict in telling people that would interrupt me to just listen and allow me to talk. And I was shocked to see for the next 1/2 hr - 45 mins - all these people were just listening to me talk not speaking a word. And then there was another new comer in the discussion who suddenly began to argue and stress his point in not buying my idea. I was really patient and tried to explain him my point only to hear him refuse. Now the most unbelievable thing happened... I was so pissed off by how dumb these guys were; I just called the whole thing off.. started walking away. Everyone could plainly see I was just so frustrated with them.. And now it was like everyone of them just gave in to me seeing my reaction and agreed with my point and in no time I got them to sign the papers.

Well, the most amazing thing was - It was just not me. I couldn't have done something like that in my dreams. I've never shown my anger on anyone other than myself and my loved ones.. (you don't need social skills for that). When it comes to a confrontation I'm the kind of guy who always chose flight over fight.. This was like the first ever in my life I chose to fight till I proved myself right. I always knew its only the dominant and aggressive that survive and succeed in this world. I knew I had no place in this world for I was so timid and spineless as one can be. But now Its like I'm just watching some movie and I just get the job done with excellent people skills so effortlessly. Well, the last two days at work were the best days of my life ever. Even outside of work I was talking to people so effortlessly... male and female - like sales/counter boys/girls (trust me even that was so hard for me even on Klonopin). I noticed myself just talking to the guy behind me when I'm in a line.. its like I know when to be informal and talk and when to be formal and stop talking unnecessarily.

So anyway I don't want to check my flirting/courting skills since I'm married already; but I certainly don't want to chicken out even just to have a friendly & long conversation with a girl just because she looks really pretty.. Yeah! but that aspect unfortunately I haven't had a chance to test it yet. I haven't been to a party or a social gathering in the last few days to check that out. However I'm pretty sure Nardil wouldn't let me down anymore. I'll post again once I tested that out too. Yeah! let me point out another unbelievable incident that just happened today.. My mom's friend and her husband were over at my place to see her. Well guess what I'd normally run into my room if anyone should come home.. at best Klonopin would make me kind of easy around people so I don't have to hide at least. But, I would still just sit and force myself to say something; leaving me still socially disabled. Btw these people are of a really outspoken and talkative kind.. Great stuff..Today, I was probably talking more than anybody in the group. And I honestly found myself cracking jokes and could make people laugh.. I knew when to talk and when to let someone talk; it was as if some kind of a new chip had been inserted in my brain and the old one removed. I knew for sure right there it was Nardil.. I needed no more convincing myself whether it works or not.

So I just want to end this post saying that Nardil works...really like magic. Just don't stop it because you didn't see a good effect in a few weeks. I read somewhere that you better be on 75 mg or even 90 mg to see the real deal. Don't waste your time on even 60 mg. let alone 45 or 30 mg. I spoke to my grandfather this afternoon he happens to be a General physician - asked him about severe constipation, stone hard feces, unbearable pain while excreting accompanied by mild bleeding. He told me I could use Dulcolax suppositories real safely. And a better way to manage even hemorrhoids will be to buy me a self enema kit and that its the best and medically recommended way for those with chronic constipation and hemorrhoids and not even laxatives. I still believe my inability to reach orgasm will go away maybe in a month at the max; cuz I already don't have poor libido and erectile dysfunction anymore.

Orthostatic hypotension sucks but you can simply do what I mentioned above.. at least that works for me. Well, maybe I don't know how painful it can be with someone suffering with Insomnia due to Nardil; because I fortunately don't have that yet. But, I just can't afford to quit even if should get it.. I already bought myself Unisom (Doxylamine Succinate) have that in my shelf in case I should need that anytime.

But if hasn't worked for someone I really feel bad for them; but thats not a reason for them to go around discouraging everybody else to not take it. Its just like any other anti-depressant; works for some and does not for some. Please keep in mind it took me 6.5 weeks to feel anything real on 75 mg and not from when I started Nardil at 15 mg. I read it can even take a full 2 months to start feeling the effect - but just like I did, do fix a really long deadline 3-4 months before you drop it. I'm pretty sure you'll be the next one to write a success story. Don't believe in anyone that pulls you down saying Nardil does not work or its not anymore like the old Nardil - maybe true but even the new formulation still works great enough to use it on a regular basis. Nardil can kill you... maybe true but I certainly do not want to mess with my life for the sake of sacrificing pizzas or whatever the food items are I should avoid. If I shouldn't drink beer I'd better not than end up with a life threatening Hypertension in the hospital. I know I'll never again get a prescription from the same doc anymore for Nardil; even if I'm willing to not be a fool again.

The only thing I've violated so far is maybe I have a cup of coffee few time a week. Because I first had a cup accidentally, realized nothing happened. But I still limit it to 1 cup a day thats it... not more.

Please check out this website - Drugs.com you can just type in Nardil (Phenelzine) and just about any other drug known to man so check how it interacts with Nardil.. just type the drug name and search its a really useful website. Because some drugs can dangerously react with Nardil... they really can kill you if you're careless. But do not be scared.. just trust in yourself and be infinitely cautious about every other drug or food you mix with Nardil.. and thats about it, now you can't die anymore because of Nardil.

Even if you should start taking Nardil; don't confuse Hypomania with real recovery from social anxiety.. Because most people in my opinion that quit are those that experience Hypomania and think they've recovered only find out its gone after a max of 2 weeks. Hang on... thats not Nardil yet.. it was just a side effect which appears and disappears when you're on it. You have to tell yourself not to be fooled by it; and just hang on for a minimum of 6 weeks to a max of 2 - 2.5 months to see the real deal. Don't give up. Lastly, don't mess with dosage (I read that somewhere on the internet) - arrive at 75 mg/day stay on it for at least 6 months; before you plan to step it up to 90 mg, if you should need it all.

Final note: I don't overestimate Nardil either; for I heard some say that they develop tolerance after a year; that they end up quitting. On the other hand, some say they've been on Nardil for like 15 years and it still works like how it did in the beginning. I want to find out which one is true for me.. The worst case I know I at least have Klonopin to go back to. However I don't expect that to ever happen. I'll be back tomorrow I'll be happy to answer any questions if my help is needed at all. Good luck to all. Thanks for reading - Ashwin
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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 12:34 PM
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sounds like a challenging kind of medication but I'm getting intrigued by

Dx: depression, GAD, narcissistic personality disorder
Rx: Sereupin (paroxetine) 20mg, Remeron (mirtazapine) 15mg, Deniban (amisulpride) 50mg, EN (delorazapem) 1mg, Halcion (triazolam) 250mcg
Prn: Provigil (modafinil) 200mg, Lioresal (baclofen) 25mg, Samyr Sam-e 400mg tablets and ampoules, Rivotril (clonazepam) 2mg, lormetazepam 2mg
Bad Rx: fluvoxamine, asenapine, bupropion

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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 01:45 PM
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Sounds fantastic! Thanks for this very sophisticated and detailed report.
I am going to start Parnate this week (Nardil has to be imported to my country, therefore it's difficult to get). Hopefully, I will experience comparable success... if not, I will try to get Nardil!
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 08:08 PM Thread Starter
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sounds like a challenging kind of medication but I'm getting intrigued by
Swim - Let me know what you find challenging about it.. I'll see if I'm capable of helping you out.
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 12:40 AM
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Very interesting report, thank you. With only one med, expressly prescribed for SA, you got some results that most of the meds that we talk about on this forum don't give.

Your report makes look with no sense many of the experimentations we read on this forum, including my own of course.

I think it was a good idea start with nardil, even if the problem is the tolerance after one year, remain anyway one year without SA. And as you wrote, in case of building up tolerance, you can always return to your klonopin, and everyone can return to his personal therapy.

Unfortunately in my country nardil doesn't exist (and this is a reason why i think nardil is really effective ) but if it existed I would take it .
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 12:54 AM
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I remember when I took nardil, it took about 3 weeks to kick in, which just so happened to be the start of a beach holiday I had with friends, good timing. That night was the best night of my life, I felt awesome, like my personality just exploded and didnt have ANY anxiety or depression at all. That went a away later that night though, but for the rest of that vacation I felt "high" like I'd shot some heroin or something. Felt out of this world awesome at times, but the social anxiety/aversion was there.

After that for the next few months it gave me uneven results, some days felt ok, some days pretty bad. I think it generally kept the deep depression at bay and it did bring back pleasure in things again.

Wish it consistently made me feel like I did on that night though..

Edit: Btw good report and glad its helping you finally
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 07:48 AM Thread Starter
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I remember when I took nardil, it took about 3 weeks to kick in, which just so happened to be the start of a beach holiday I had with friends, good timing. That night was the best night of my life, I felt awesome, like my personality just exploded and didnt have ANY anxiety or depression at all. That went a away later that night though, but for the rest of that vacation I felt "high" like I'd shot some heroin or something. Felt out of this world awesome at times, but the social anxiety/aversion was there.

After that for the next few months it gave me uneven results, some days felt ok, some days pretty bad. I think it generally kept the deep depression at bay and it did bring back pleasure in things again.

Wish it consistently made me feel like I did on that night though..

Edit: Btw good report and glad its helping you finally
Hey Jimmy - If you've read my story above, the 'high' you experienced the 3rd week is precisely the Hypomania I was talking about.. It happens to everyone who gets on Nardil, but thats not the real Anxiolytic effect you're looking for.. What was your dosage?? Did you try 75mg/day or higher consistently for at least 2.5 months without changing the dose randomly or skipping your dose? If you're dosing it perfectly on 75mg/day; it can take you anywhere from a minimum of 6 full weeks to 2.5 months to see the real effect. And take my word, you'll never regret the wait. Just be patient; don't get frustrated - keep track of the exact date you started 75 mg and count the weeks/months precisely. I wouldn't quit unless its totally useless for 3-4 months. Try again and do it this way, I'm pretty sure it will work for you too. Good luck man..
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 01:32 PM
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Swim - Let me know what you find challenging about it.. I'll see if I'm capable of helping you out.
well it seems like there are many adverse effects and dietary restrictions.

Dx: depression, GAD, narcissistic personality disorder
Rx: Sereupin (paroxetine) 20mg, Remeron (mirtazapine) 15mg, Deniban (amisulpride) 50mg, EN (delorazapem) 1mg, Halcion (triazolam) 250mcg
Prn: Provigil (modafinil) 200mg, Lioresal (baclofen) 25mg, Samyr Sam-e 400mg tablets and ampoules, Rivotril (clonazepam) 2mg, lormetazepam 2mg
Bad Rx: fluvoxamine, asenapine, bupropion

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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-25-2011, 05:51 AM Thread Starter
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well it seems like there are many adverse effects and dietary restrictions.
I feel that just depends on how socially anxious you are normally; and how desperate are you in putting an end to your suffering. If you were like me, you'd have no social life whatsoever, you'd be so timid and you just can't put up with who you are no more, that you'd put up with the dietary restrictions that come along with Nardil for the great life you'll get in return. The adverse effects come in only if you violate the food and drug restrictions; which if you're willing to sacrifice, you don't have to worry about anything at all.
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-25-2011, 08:23 AM
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anyway I couldn't get it prescribed as in Italy's not available; as a MAOI there's only PARMODALIN (Tranylcypromine) who is usually prescribed to ECT resistant depression, and selegiline.

Dx: depression, GAD, narcissistic personality disorder
Rx: Sereupin (paroxetine) 20mg, Remeron (mirtazapine) 15mg, Deniban (amisulpride) 50mg, EN (delorazapem) 1mg, Halcion (triazolam) 250mcg
Prn: Provigil (modafinil) 200mg, Lioresal (baclofen) 25mg, Samyr Sam-e 400mg tablets and ampoules, Rivotril (clonazepam) 2mg, lormetazepam 2mg
Bad Rx: fluvoxamine, asenapine, bupropion

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If I 100% knew Nardil would help I would take it. I'd hate to put up with tough side effects, be patient for weeks/months and be really careful to avoid food/drug interactions only for it to fail me. The best one can currently say is that it might help me in the long run, which doesn't exactly make me feel bullish about things.

I have tried sh*talopram, belowpar, diazesham, noshowmazine, lorazesham, Cynica, Ineffexor, crapranolol, futileoxetine and Depascrote without success.

I am now just using CBT.
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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 07:02 PM
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anyway I couldn't get it prescribed as in Italy's not available
But it is available in other countries within the European Union. Thus, it should be possible for you to import it (your insurance company may hesistate to pay for it though - don't know how the Italien health insurace system is organized).

A not-controlled substance like Phenelzine is definitly tradable inside the European Union. But I must admit that it is difficult to find a physician that prescribes a med that is not available in the own country. I am from Germany and Phenelzine is not approved here either - when I talked about it with my shrink, I got the impression that he doesn't even know that Phenelzine exists. Anyway, I have no reason to complain - he prescribed the German version of Parnate to me this week and I am very curious how it'll work. Saying this, if you want to try a MAOI, just be patient and go to different shrinks. There are many shrink that are just ignorant about the "dangerousness" of the MAOI and that do not know about their superior efficiency. But still there are physicans that do know and that do prescribe. Especially old ones, as these have experienced the good old "Pre-SSRI"-era, where depression and anxiety were effectivly treated...
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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-27-2011, 12:39 AM
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But it is available in other countries within the European Union. Thus, it should be possible for you to import it (your insurance company may hesistate to pay for it though - don't know how the Italien health insurace system is organized).
all antidepressants and antipsychotics (except new ones like Valdoxan) are "class A" medications if prescribed by your assigned physician and they are free.
Sedatives are "class C" medications and have to be paid,also no brand generic ones, still I can get them for free for also being a medical patient of public mental center.

Dx: depression, GAD, narcissistic personality disorder
Rx: Sereupin (paroxetine) 20mg, Remeron (mirtazapine) 15mg, Deniban (amisulpride) 50mg, EN (delorazapem) 1mg, Halcion (triazolam) 250mcg
Prn: Provigil (modafinil) 200mg, Lioresal (baclofen) 25mg, Samyr Sam-e 400mg tablets and ampoules, Rivotril (clonazepam) 2mg, lormetazepam 2mg
Bad Rx: fluvoxamine, asenapine, bupropion

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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-27-2011, 04:42 AM
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great read and info. Am three days in and fell better.
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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-27-2011, 09:06 PM Thread Starter
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Thought I'll be updating my +ve experiences on Nardil here day by day:

May 28th, 2011 (7th week on 75 mg): I went over with my wife to her dentist; the best part was we were just waiting in line for her turn to come. And then suddenly I heard this guy asking for directions to the girl at the reception to some place and I noticed she didn't know how to get there quite well.. and I happened to know. So I immediately without my own knowing started telling him how to get there; btw I was seated quite far away from where these people were - the entire room could have heard me talk to this guy and explain him until he perfectly understood and finally thanked me. Guess I spoke for a 2-3 minutes with him.

This was by all means not me.. I swear. If it had been my usual self, even though I knew the directions, I'd not open my mouth...forget about the loud voice forget about 10 people watching me talk. Thats mot me.

And another thing was I spoke to this woman doctor of whom even a month back I was terribly nervous; I was impossible for me to look in her eyes and say anything more than a few words. I was so ashamed of myself.. Yeah but yesterday, it was like unbelievable so unlike the past, I spoke to her for about 5 mins so cool and fearless.. I'm without a doubt certain that its simply Nardil slowly destroying my social anxiety altogether.

I'll keep y'all updated on some really exciting experiences on Nardil.
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great read and info. Am three days in and fell better.
Whats up boostinggtir?? Hows your experience so far with Nardil? Hope its good? Keep everyone updated at least once a week. Good luck man..Ashwin

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Good stuff. I wish I could find one of these MAOI psychiatrists. Mine have pretty much laughed at the idea. Should be here in 2 weeks .
Hi Euphoria!! Just let everyone know once you start Nardil man.. Doubtless it will work for you and it can for anybody who wants to try it out.

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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-16-2011, 10:53 PM
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Hey ashwin, I was wondering if you could provide an update? Had the hypotension gotten better? Anorgasmia/ other sexual side effects? Have you maintained your positive effects? Also one of the things I worry about taking this potential medicine is knowing what foods to avoid. It says to avoid soy beans, well a lot if my snacks such as rice crispy treats have soy bean listed in them, or things like ketchup or other sauces which have so many ingrediants I feel like they're bound to have a conflicting item. The only thing id feel safe eating is cereal with milk, but even that is scary because any mistake by the producer of storing the milk can lead to tyramine.
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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-18-2011, 08:57 PM
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I too can attest to the effectiveness of MAOIs for social anxiety. Though I'm not taking Nardil (I'm taking Parnate) I just feel more energetic and bubbly on Parnate. It's been 5 weeks now and sometimes I wonder what I would do without Parnate. I feel more focused, energised and more alert in general, although my anxiety is still pretty high (I smoke about 25 a day ). I think that if all else fails, give the MAOI's a go, they really do work

Good to see things are looking good for you Ashwin
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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-21-2011, 06:11 AM Thread Starter
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Update - after 6 months on Nardil


Just an update:

I've been on 90mg Nardil for more than 2 months now.Think on the whole 6 months.
1. Literally 0% anxiety at 90mg.
2. Turns me into a workaholic with really high ambitions because now I find that I have the mental & social abilities to move on with my life.
3. Side effects: Constipation and inorgasmia have completely disappeared.
Less need for sleep still remains. No more hypotension either.

Some things that have worked for me:

1. Taking the entire dose (90 mg) early in the morning (around 5:30 AM) followed by a 45 mins medium paced walk; gives the best results & by the way this trick eliminates hypotension & BP fluctuations for me.
2. On some days it works better than the other ones - for example I don't feel my best everyday.. sometimes I'll feel great for a whole week, followed by 2-3 days of slightly lesser effect. Just ignoring it and continuing to take the dose solves the problem.
3. Once or sometimes even twice a week, I would cut back the dose to 75 mg (not lower) and bring it back to 90 mg. Somebody in the forum taught me this trick (to prevent developing tolerance)... it works for me.

Hope that helps.
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