My Nardil Success Story (there is hope)! + Insomnia: ADVICE NEEDED!!!

Hello everyone,

I will give my background info since this is my first post. I didnt intend to write so much, but this is the first time I've really been able to let it all out. Sorry for the length

I've been a lurker here for a while and really appreciate the abundant information and support this forum has to offer for people with SAD. Anyway I was diagnosed with depression in 2005 after Katrina tossed my world upside down (my moms side of the family has history of depression). My dads a psychiatrist luckily so he knew the severity of what I was going through. I went through all the SSRIs, mood stabilizers, stimulants, was hospitalized twice, blah blah blah... Thankfully those days are distant memories.

Since middle school I realized I was maybe a little shy but I had plenty of friends, played sports, and was an average kid. I definitely had some anxious meltdowns at home if kids were being *******s (go figure right? ).

Highschool began in 2009 when Katrina hit and wiped my old house we were selling off its slab, and flooded my new house we just moved into. Long story short, I lived in Alabama and then Jackson,MS for like 4 months and it sucked ***. Finally got back and my depression became very severe as well as my anxiety increasing. My dad started me on meds and I went through all useless (for me) SSRIS that destroyed my sex drive, and caused impotence. I got off of them once therapy started and sex drive took probably 2 years to come back using a combination of different drugs and staying active. I've read some people who have had similar problems with Post SSRI sexual dysfunction, and its definitely real. So if you have any questions please ask. Around senior year I was trying every herbal and natural treatment for depression out there. Sam-E gave me some decent results with depression but not anxiety. Speaking in front of a crowd was a nightmare for me, and I did not have benzos at the time. I screwed up bad once in front a lot of people and it was a traumatic experience I had to work through in therapy. But things always work out!

College began and social anxiety shot up big time. I went to a school out of state and only knew cousins that went there. Luckily I got roomed up with a cool guy and met his friends, turned out they lived only a few towns down from where I was from. Depression and social anxiety really triggered eachother for myself so I became very depressed after dealing with the anxiety everyday. I was by no means a hermit, but I was not a social butterfly.

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I did not really have too many negative thoughts about myself socially that kept me down, I just got anxiety in those situations. I'm sure all of you can attest to that explosion of anxiety that flows through your body in an instant when you put in a social situation or even get invited to one. I did well in class freshmen year and made a few friends but I was not quite satisfied. One time I was truly suicidal, so I said "F#ck it" and went and got marijuana (sorry if this breaks the rules to mention drugs) to smoke. It really pulled me out of that funk, and began to use it once or twice a week.

Over the summer break I took a course at a local junior college that was intensive, something like 4 hours/day M-TH. It felt like breakfast club meeting all of these people and talking to them during our breaks. I was taking Maca at the time to help revive my sex drive and it seemed to boost my mood also. I gradually gained the courage to talk openly in class and make jokes, but I still felt quite nervous. Also over the break I started hanging out with some cool guys and quickly realized they were potheads. And I basically became one too. Smoking nightly to ease my anxiety seemed like a great idea. But whenever I ran out my anxiety would be 10x worse.

On to my sophomore year at college where things start to turn around.. Still having social anxiety, but good social skills when intoxicated I had a short run in a fraternity. I met a few cool guys, and met my girlfriend when we were both wasted at a local bar. Anyways we hit it off and for some reason I felt extremely comfortable around her so my anxiety did not inhibit out relationship. But having to meet all of her friends from highschool and do more socializing shot up my social anxiety and generalized anxiety to new levels. I woke up feeling anxious and went to bed feeling anxious. To combat this anxiety that was also causing insomnia, I began smoking every night to chill my nerves and get great sleep. It also lowered my social anxiety. But in the end it turns out that pot just increases your problem.

Things took a different turn when I got caught smoking by my parents and sister (how embarassing)... Luckily I was so stoned that I do not recall the panicky feeling or exactly what happened. I was so pissed off because pot was my once escape from anxiety and now I was going to be drug tested and hassled about it. Alcohol never did much for me, and I was always much more anxious after it wore off.

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Turns out this was best thing that could happen to me. I've stopped smoking for over 90 days (except 4/20 of course). My anxiety started to slowly lessen weeks at a time without the pot. Of course I had withdrawals at first but that wasn't bad except for the insomnia! I just could not go to sleep no matter how much I exercised, ate better, made a sleep routine, or take melatonin. I went like 5 days with probably an hour of sleep so my dad prescribed me a sleep aid. The first two we tried did not work and I ended up using temazepam 30mg and 25 mg vistaril for a short time for sleep.

Admittedly, I had aquired a ton of xanax and xanax xr from an endocrinologist my freshman year when I told him about my anxiety. When he wrote me the script for xanax/xr 1mg 30 pills x 3 refills I thought "what an idiot.. hes the kind of guy that gets people addicted". Luckily at that point I knew all about psychoactive drugs and benzo addiction so I only really only used about .25mg to get sleep. Gradually that dosage increased to .5mg and then 1mg bc I like the buzz and relaxation it gave me. I probably one used it twice a week bc I was still smoking at the time. I guess I became mildy tolerant to them but never dependent. I was smart with my use of them.

Anyway back to the real reason I wrote this thread: My nardil success and god damn insomnia that comes with it. Towards the very end of this last semester in school I felt like the anxiety had broken me. I became very depressed and suicidal. Of course I only told my dad and therapist, but my girlfriend could tell I was sad all the time. I really thought I was at the end of my road. I did not want to try any of those SSRI antidepressants ever again. The thought of the pain they caused me over the years just made me shiver.

I finally decided enough was enough. I had to have some relief. I went to see a very prestigious psychiatrist in New Orleans that my dad had known when he was in residency. This was the doc that other psychiatrists referred their patients to when they were puzzled or the patient had "treatment-resistant" symptoms. I met him and expected him to wave his magic wand during our session and take care of my problems. Instead he wrote down a list of drug options I could try :1. california rocket fuel (effexor/remeron), 2. Nardil (MAOI), 3. Vyvanse (bc i showed some ADD without hyperactivity symptoms) 4. Luvox ( the only SSRI that gave me some relief before)

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I told him I need time to make a decision. Should I go with california rocket fuel bc it shouldnt have sexual side effects? But I had been on both meds individually and was not impressed by either. The Luvox helped in the past but I was scared of the sexual said effects and mind numbing it caused, even though I thought I could stave them off using high doses of vitamin b6 to keep prolactin down. (Thats why SSRIS have the bad sexual side effects, prolactin is evil) Vyvanse was not an option, tried it before and had severe anxiety from stimulants. Lastly, there was Nardil. No way in hell am I taking this prehistoric med. He told me about the diet and had already known that people freak out when thinking about trying it.

So I decided to wait a while on my decision. Meanwhile the depression got deeper and deeper. I started Luvox for a week but felt like a zombie just staring at walls. I eventually gave into my fears and gave Nardil a chance (after all it was called the golden standard). One thing I noticed about Nardil is that I never felt like I was on a medicine, or drugged, until it started to take effect. I started it the week before exams but I did not care about much at that point. I did 15 mg for 1 day, 30mg, for 4 days, then went up to 45 mg for a week. Then I went up to 60 for a week and saw my doctor. I still felt extremely depressed. "No improvements" I told him. he wanted to add lamictal, but I just wanted to give nardil a legit shot. A few weeks later I was in church on Sunday. I really did not have much of any faith, and had been dragged there my whole life. My mom kept telling me to give my worries up to God. I'd laugh in her face everytime Instead of following the Mass (Im catholic), I prayed the entire time that God prove himself to me, make the nardil work, take away my anxieties and depression. That was one of the first times I have prayed legitimately from the heart.

Believe or not, the next day I started to feel different. (For those who think its a coincidence, thats fine, by no means am I trying to impose my beliefs on you. Just telling how it was). My sister was having friends over and when I introduced myself I did not feel an intense explosion of anxiety that I usually do. I felt much calmer than usually, but still very anxious. Two days later our neighbors invited us over for dinner. This was the kind of thing that I hated to do so much. Just feeling panicked the whole time. Felt like the weight of the world was on my shoulders when I answered questions. But this time I was very social. I didnt even notice that I was less anxious. I just felt like the whole dinner was not a big deal. Anxiety still persisted though. Btw I was not having any side effects at 60 mg except insomnia, which I already was dealing with ever since I quit smoking. Also some hypotension twice, but it was mild dizziness that was fixed by drinking many cups of water to bring blood pressure up.

The next week I headed back to summer school. Thats what Im up to now. So I was like great, more big classes to be anxious in, and a new roommate to get aquainted with. Turns out my roommate is a great guy and not a slob like my last one . But then classes started on a Monday and the last times I had been in class room settings I had been very anxious. My class sizes have ranged from 600 to 200 to 135 to 60 people in previous years. No way I can even speak up in front of that many. Palms would get sweaty, I would get really anxious and choke up if I attemped to say something aloud in these classes. Now I am in a science class with 150 people and a English class with only 22. Guess what? Im the most talkitive person in both classes. Im constantly asking questions in my organic chemistry class in front of 150 people with out feeling nervous at all. I dont even get excited about the accomplishment that is for me. It just feels like another day at the office. And in my English class I pretty much lead most of the class discussions. Last semester both of these would be impossible for me to do. Now I dont even think about it when I open my mouth in class.

I feel great now, my depression is basically in full remission, and my social anxiety is being crushed by nardil. I'm not all the way where I want to be but I've only been on Nardil for a little over a month. My psychiatrist said there will be drastic improvement in the first few months, and then less drastic improvement continued for up to a year. I'm currently on 60 mg and will see how much more improve. I literally feel like im getting better every week and gaining confidence. I feel like I can really be like myself. Oh yea I forgot to mention that as of this last week i started to have to inorgasmia side effect too. But its summer time and my gf is away for two months anyway. Many people say this fades pretty fast and its not really a big concern to me. My quality of life is improved x10000. During my last appointment with my p doc I was smiling and joking the whole time, and when it was over I said, "why do people even use SSRIS? They dont work very well and MAOIs are amazing!". He just smiled and shook his head responding that there is such a overwhelming fear about them because of the diet restrictions

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On SSRIS: I had WAY MORE side effects: probably increased depression, zero motivation, all loss of sexual function, felt like a zombie, weight gain, i could just go on...

On Nardil: NO WEIGHT GAIN (actually have lost weight), appetite is down to normal, no crazy carbohydrate cravings, I eat cheese all the time. I've eaten cheddar, montery jack, swiss, mozzeralla.. pretty much everything except blue cheese bc i know that can be serious. Only problems i have now are insomnia which i had before (its worse than before admittedly), inorgasmia which is supposed to pass (not worried about it), and some tempory urinary retention which lasted like two days.

Tips to reduce nardil side effects : Take your doses with food! It definitely reduces the side effects. I was having reduced libido and hypotension, but as soon as I took my doses with food, those SE's faded. Some people might say it makes the medication less effective but I dont really buy that. I've been doing great.

When I took nardil on an empty stomach it seemed more activating,and I could feel it entering my system which made me sort of uncomfortable. Now when I take it with food, its just a smooth relaxing feeling all day long.

For those who are scared to take nardil because of what they have heard, please consider this medication. Im sure many of you will benefit from it. My pdoc said that theres a 60% chance a patient will strongly respond to either nardil or parnate. I'm sticking with nardil because I can definitely notice the gaba effect.

I can still drink beer but i do so in moderation. why? Because I feel pretty intoxicated after just 2-3 beers (probably all the extra gaba in my brain) when it normally takes about 6-7 to get a really good buzz. I've also been able to reduce my benzo dosage. I never really took them regularly, just prn and sleep sometimes. I took a .5mg kpin that normally would just take the edge off, and felt like i took 1.5mg. I prefer now to not even use benzos or alcohol in social situations because i feel more confident just being sober. I went over with my gf last weekend to hang with a bunch of her friends. Before nardil, just her suggesting we go over there would cause panic. Now im like yea definitely, and dont think twice about it. I had all the her friends laughing and they thought i was a different person. I was normally so quiet before but now i was being a smartass and having a good time.

Good lord.. Can't believe i wrote this much. I just really wanted to share my experience with everyone. Give nardil a shot. Its not a scary drug at all. Just slowly work your dosage up starting at 15mg for a week, then add on more pill each week until you get to 60mg. Stay there for like 3-4 weeks until you see results. If you are having success on 60mg just stay there for a while and see if you need any adjusting later on. And dont be scared if you have to reduce your dosage for some reason.

I started having urinary retention. mainly because I was taking tons of magnesium at night and partly because I was taking all 60mg together at once in the morning. My pdoc told me to go to 15 mg until I could piss normally. I had the retention for like 3 days and was getting worried that I would have to get off of nardil or start flomax so I went to pray about it in church, and the priest gave a blessing and prayed over me. That night something inside me decided to stop taking my ZMA (zinc magnesium aspartate) which helps me sleep and have been taking everynight for over a year. The next day my urinary retention started to improve.. A couple days later it was back to normal. I stayed at 30mg Nardil for probably a week and actually felt better than I was on 60mg before the retention, but I thought it was bc the nardil had longer to work. So now im back up to 60 mg and feeling great.

Supplements that helped me a ton this past semester: I took vitamin b complex in the morning with a few grams l glutamine, and took the glutamin again with 100mg b6 at night. When you combine b6 with glutamine your body synthesizes gaba. Taking GABA supplements cant cross the blood brain barrier, but glutamine can. And B6 is required to turn the glutamine into gaba. This combination definitely helped me with sleep this past year and lowered my anxiety levels enough so I could maintain having a girl friend. Taurine also works on gaba and can calm your mind.

I don't take these supplements now that I'm on Nardil but they definitely were one of the more effective combos that I used.

If you are taking nardil you need to be supplementing with B6 bc nardil depletes it. B6 helps in neurotransmitter synthesis and is important in making gaba, which is why nardil is effective on social anxiety.

Now my regimen in the morning is:
wake up 7am (i usually sleep late but insomnia..)
take 2 B complex pills (contains 50mg b6)
Multivitamin
B6 100mg pill
3000 iu vitamin D (definitely improves mood, was tested months ago and came up low on the scale)
(If I feel anxious this combo settles me down pretty quickly) 50mg zinc for libido (used to be in my ZMA but i avoid the magnesium now)
I eat a light snack (bowl of cereal)
Take 2 nardil pills
My first class is at 12pm so right before
I eat my second bowl of cereal
Take 2 more nardil pills (that gives me about 5 hours between doses)

Its weird because ever since I started Nardil my appetite has been way down. I either get out of class at 2pm or 5pm and then I get something to eat, but by bed time I still feel full. So im only eating 2 meals a day. Usually im constantly hungry.. but whatever, it helps me maintain my weight.


NEED SLEEP ADVICE!!!!!!<<<<<<<<
So once I started having severe insomnia for and did not sleep for 4 days my dad prescribed me a few lorazepam at 1mg per night. Didnt do much, so my other pdoc prescribed me lorazepam 3mg per night. Started sleeping like a baby. Did that for like 2-3 weeks and then my girlfriend for the weekend. I had noticed a tolerance beginning to develop and she is hard to sleep with so i went up to 4mg for two nights. After she left 3mg never worked again, neither did 4mg... Since then I've tried ambien, didnt work and gave me daytime anxiety. I've tried temazepam up to 60 mg and got a few hours of sleep but not sufficient. I've taking doxylamine up to 100mg with no response. I dont want to use trazodone because in the past it gave me really bad hangovers/headaches. One night I took 2mg klonopin, no response, so i added two vistaril, a few hours later i took 4 mg ativan, a few hours later i took 2 doxylamine, and about like 5 in the morning i took a lunesta and got 2 hours of sleep. Im talking HARDCORE insomnia here.. Any suggestions?

Night Regimen
Melatonin (1.5-3mg) its never done much for me
Temazepam 60mg? makes me sedated but not enough to sleep


I know I made this post into a novel, but I would greatly appreciate any comments, suggestions of sleep meds.

If you have any questions about nardil, dosage, or anything I am more than happy to respond.

Thanks for reading the story of my life lol,

mr t

Wow, these nardil success stories just keep coming and coming. After trying all the SSRI's, this forum (and dr-bob) is what inspired me to give nardil a shot.

I started nardil 3 weeks ago and worked my way up to 45mg in a week. After 2 weeks I increased to 60mg which is where I am at now. I have been on 60mg for a week now but still no effect. My depression and anxiety seems to be getting worse again, so I really hope it kicks in soon.

Like you, I was also terrified of the food restrictions (and still am). I haven't been game enough to try any cheeses yet, as I want to play it safe. You might be right 99% of the time, but its that 1% you're not.

At 45mg nardil helped me sleep, and was pleasantly sedating like a benzo. Once I hit 60mg that's when the insomnia started. Probably not quite as severe as yours, but still pretty bad. I wake up several times during the night. So far i'm taking 25mg of doxylamine succinate which helps a little.

I too have also noticed that benzo's are more potent while on nardil. Previously I couldn't even feel 5mg of valium but now I can. I would estimate that it has increase the effects of benzo's by around 30-40% which is nice.

Thank you for another nardil inspiration story, it gives me hope it will change my life as well.

Keep your chin up. I know exactly how you are feeling now. I started to have my doubts because nothing was happening for either, I literally felt no difference in my mood and anxiety and sometimes felt worse... At my 2nd week on 60 mg I was ready to give up, even told my psych that I was having suicidal ideation.. I was really down in the dumps. Then by my 4th week on 60mg I started to notice a small decrease in anxiety and my mood was steadily improving. By week 6 I was chatting it up in my 150 person class with no anxiety and feeling great. It just takes a little time to work and I had my doubts also but you will get better!

The deal with the cheese is that it has to be fresh. My p doc said that eating dominos cheese pizza is fine bc it had been tested for tyramine and came up very low. Its all about how fresh the cheese is... I ate a full cheese pizza on my 4th week on Nardil haha so I knew Mozzerella was ok. But yes you should be careful and make sure the cheese is fresh. Try a little bit first and see. Stay away from those aged cheeses like blue cheese. That is very dangerous!!

Just keep believing you will get better every week.
Good luck shy one!

Are you taking B6 with your nardil? because you definitely need to..

I take a B complex in the morning with 50 mg as well as a 100mg capsule of B6. I got the bottle of B6 off of vitaminshoppe.com

I got 300 capsules of 100mg B6 for like $14, or you can get 100 caps for $6.

I recommend taking a good B complex also, it always seems to calm my nerves. As well as vitamind D (which takes a while to build up in your system bc its fat soluble)

Taking B6 might make the nardil start working sooner for you. I hypothesize that the 60 mg worked for me so well in 5 weeks because I had plenty of B6 which synthesize more gaba, which is after all the end goal.

When you're taking nardil you will notice:

1st: an improvement in anxiety
2nd: an improvement in mood

Source: my dad lol (he's a psych whos been working with nardil since his residency)

Thanks man. Can I ask how much you weigh? Apparently the ideal dose of nardil is 1mg/kg. I weigh about 74kg so would 60mg be enough for me? I really hope so because I can't tolerate any more than 60mg with the insomnia at this point.

Also in regards to the cheese, are you sure dominos pizza is safe? Do they only use mozzarella? What about their pepperoni on pizza? I'm assuming that would be dangerous and it would be better asking without pepperoni?

This is a good updated guide on the MAOI diet and drug interactions. To be on the safe side, talk to your doctor before attempting anything, and try small portions of food first to see how you react.

Here's another finding:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...?dopt=Abstract

Nardil strikes again.

thats good its helped. its weird theres so many more success stories with nardil than with parnate or marplan, must be that gaba goodness adding some synergy.

sounds like you've been a bit unlucky with how bad the insomnia is. i'm going on nardil shortly but all the insomnia reports are concerning. i can't really offer any suggestions but i'm going to ask my doc about adding agomelatine or very low dose mirtazapine if the insomnia gets too bad and hope that takes care of it.

I think I solved my insomnia, atleast temporarily.

Took 2.5 mg kpin last night with 50 mg doxylamine and it knocked me out. Im celebrating right now bc its my first full nights sleep in over a week

Shy-one: I'm 170 lbs/77kg

Interesting, might have to try doxylamine with some valium. I have heard that it magnifies the effect of benzos. Probably not a good long term option though, I might see if I can get a low dose of seroquel (that stuff knocks you out).

My insomnia seems to be getting worse. Last night I only got about 4 hours sleep For some reason I sleep ok until about 2-3am when I wake up and can't get back to sleep for a long time (if at all).

Good to know that you're a similar weight to me and 60mg works. I can't wait until it kicks in (fingers crossed). I am skeptical though, as I have been through every SSRI and a few TCA's without success. So if it works it will be the first antidepressant to do so.

Shy one:
Try adding some melatonin to your regimen. It's non toxic and helps maintain sleep. Nardil messes with rem sleep and cycle some but I think the melatonin helps correct it some. I've been scouring the net to find the what the standard dose is but it ranges from like .5-10mg. I've been dosing between 1-3mg and it seems to be helping

I'm on 30mg of temazepan. 3:20am, still can't sleep. Contemplating popping another one...

Used to be on ambien for 6 months. It was great until I started to get up in the middle of the night and dig thru the frig. I didn't realize I was doing it until my wife asked me why I'm so hungry at 2am. The last time I took it I woke up (sleep walking?), popped down three more pills of ambien and washed it down with 2/3 of a bottle of vodka, took the car keys and tried to drive to vegas with two imaginary friends. Fortunately wife snatched the keys away and managed to get away after I tried to strangle her to get her to give me the keys.

It was too bad. I loved that pill. I never slept as well as I did when I was on it (minus the sleep walking, of course).

Yep, I've seen people do weird thing in their sleep on ambien, that's why I'd never take it

Wow I wonder if I did any of the stuff like mentioned above while I was on ambien lol. Never did help that much, only in the beginning.

Someone should start a poll about Nardil in an attempt to quantify its apparent awesomeness. I'd start one, but you could literally come up with about 10 different options for people to choose if you wanted to be thorough, and I wouldn't want to mess it up. You could have "Nardil has worked for me for over a year", "I found it effective but then it stopped working", "It didn't work", "It worked but I stopped due to side effects.", et cetera.

Thanks for the read. Yea this drug in finally starting to kick in properly for me, after been on 60mg for two weeks, and on Nardil for a total of 7 weeks. I feel great...for once. With out having to abuse drugs anyway. lol Appreciate the advise too. I must get a b12 supplement asap. Though I do eat lot of Beef, fish, and eggs,(bodybuilding diet) (high in b12) so my dietary intake maybe adequate.


Foods high in B12
http://www.healthaliciousness.com/ar...itamin-B12.php

I like the tip about not taking on a empty stomach, as to be overly activating. I initally do that, though I definitely could stop doing it for my night time dose. Yea melatonin seems to be helpful, though I've taken non stop for the last 3 years. 3mg.

Man I must be the only person not hitting the strong sleep aids. Though I won't I won't speak too soon, since have have only briefly been on 60mg. Sleep is usually 2hours sleep at work,330am-630am (only 30mins tonight:/ dam you 60mg!!!) go home to sleep during the day. Will sleep 900am-till 1100am (nardil/stomach will wake me) Have something to eat, or protein shake. Then Sleep from 1115am-300pm.. Talk about broken up.. Though with my big 30mins work nap vs 2hours this morning, I maybe in for a bit of fun. I also agree that the gaba has a helpful sleep effect, when I get home an pop that dose, it seems to help me drift off. Talk about random side effects. My little tip is don't let you body get too acidic, get some good alkaline food in yourself before bed. You'll feel heaps better. I have a few hand fulls of green beans *(frozen tipped in hot water) when I get home before going to bed. They are probably the most powerful sleep aid I take. Alkaline is the state you want to be in for sleep. I sometimes miss vegetables (green beans) in some meals during the day, but never before sleep. I just can't drift of other wise, or takes ages. Again, thanks for sharing mate.

Also.


Sounds like you did it very rough like myself. I also turned to smoking weed as a very temporary escape. Also contemplated suicide also which is never cool. And finally, if there is a god out there, I also thank him for Nardil. I always thought there could never be a god, as why would I be required to live my life in pain, with zero justification for it. Over the next wile I'll need to re gauge my life, an sort what I want to do, now that jumping of a cliff isn't on my mind. Motivation, confidence, cognitive, well been = nardil win.. sleep nardil = failure potentially haha