Making a fake MAOI - Social Anxiety Forum
 
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-08-2020, 07:58 PM Thread Starter
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Making a fake MAOI


Ive tried a lot of medication and the only one that really worked was nardil. The problem is my side effects were very severe. I had bad brain fog, terrible insomnia, paranoia, and some compulsions. I was thinking if i targeted the same neurotransmitters with different drugs I could maybe get some of the qualities of MAOIs without the side effects. Would combining an SSRI or SNRI with buroprion be promising? any info or opinions are much appreciated. Thanks
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-09-2020, 08:24 AM
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Ive tried a lot of medication and the only one that really worked was nardil. The problem is my side effects were very severe. I had bad brain fog, terrible insomnia, paranoia, and some compulsions. I was thinking if i targeted the same neurotransmitters with different drugs I could maybe get some of the qualities of MAOIs without the side effects. Would combining an SSRI or SNRI with buroprion be promising? any info or opinions are much appreciated. Thanks
Yeah brain fog is quite common it seems with the MAOI's. I remember being on Moclobemide and it was really bad. Some people don't get brain fog from the MAOI's and others get it really bad.

There is Parnate or Emsam that may be better in terms of side effects and having less brain fog. However maybe the way in which one gets serotonin is better achieved through a different mechanism.

If you wanted to emulate the Nardil through other medications as a replacement, effexor with adderall would be as close as you could get. There would certainly be less side effects using those two medications. I don't recommend wellbutrin. Pretty weak and seems to lower the seizure threshold. I take both effexor and adderall currently and they both work well together and there aren't really any bothersome side effects that turn me off from being on them.

Unfortunately insomnia is common with any serotonergic medication. Serotinergics change the sleep architecture. It is much easier to wake up in the morning being on them however the insomnia can get pretty bad. I used to use seroquel for that but after having been on both those medications for as long as I have been I've been able to quit the seroquel.

Best of luck.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-09-2020, 10:11 AM
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Gonna be hard to replicate a MAOI, Nardil for example metabolizes into phenylethylamine(PEA) which is the bodies own amphetamine, and as a MAOI it will inhibit the breakdown of it too...PEA is very short acting on its own. Nardil also does its thing with GABA, octopamine and prbs some others too


Best I can come up with is amitripyline (some serotonin and norepinephrine) + armodafinil (dopamine) + lyrica (GABA)

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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-09-2020, 11:37 AM
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Gonna be hard to replicate a MAOI, Nardil for example metabolizes into phenylethylamine(PEA) which is the bodies own amphetamine, and as a MAOI it will inhibit the breakdown of it too...PEA is very short acting on its own. Nardil also does its thing with GABA, octopamine and prbs some others too


Best I can come up with is amitripyline (some serotonin and norepinephrine) + armodafinil (dopamine) + lyrica (GABA)
That's an interesting take. I didn't take the GABA component into consideration. My problem with using GABA related medications is that they throw off the beneficial effects that one can get from the dopamine acting medications.

Lyrica looks like a decent medication. Seems to have similar effects on sleep architecture that antidepressants have. It enhances slow wave sleep. Definitely better than benzodiazepines.

Effexor for serotonin. Nortryptiline or Strattera for noradrenaline. Adderall for dopamine. Lyrica for GABA. Overall though I think that effexor with adderall is decent enough.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-09-2020, 12:57 PM
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That's an interesting take. I didn't take the GABA component into consideration. My problem with using GABA related medications is that they throw off the beneficial effects that one can get from the dopamine acting medications.

Lyrica looks like a decent medication. Seems to have similar effects on sleep architecture that antidepressants have. It enhances slow wave sleep. Definitely better than benzodiazepines.

Effexor for serotonin. Nortryptiline or Strattera for noradrenaline. Adderall for dopamine. Lyrica for GABA. Overall though I think that effexor with adderall is decent enough.

I was on lyrica for a couple years but stopped about 3 months in when I started nardil, didn't notice any change when I dropped it.


I'm in two minds as to whether lyrica helped at all..you take it everyday and although tolerance isn't supposed to build, you definitely lose something. Taken prn, its really good, and works great for anxiety, so good in fact its nice to binge on ha.



With adderall, I could see a similar problem to lyrica, that, if taken daily, you build tolerance and dont feel too much of the feelgood effect anymore. I guess your experience is different ?


If I was prescribed adderall monthly, there wouldnt be much left after day 5 lol.

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-09-2020, 02:39 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the info. I was wondering why you think nardil is so good at preventing blushing and sweating? I can deal with the other physical aspects of SA but those two really kill me. Nardil completely cured me of it and I desperately want the relief again. I was thinking about trying parnate but isn't it even more stimulating? I had to cycle a few sleep meds just to get any sleep on nardil. Any thoughts on Selegiline being good for blushing and sweating?
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-10-2020, 04:24 AM
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It is impossible to just combine some medication that work on say , these chemicals in the brain, and expect the same effects.

Keep in mind that it ar only theories and that for some medication (while it increases for example serotonine) it is not sure the therapeutic effect relies on this only.

Also stattera and nortriptyline indeed both work on noradrenaline, but both give completely different effects. (Also they increase noradrenaline in different parts on the brain, it could be that this is the reason for the difference in effects, but also could be a other reason)
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-10-2020, 08:51 AM
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I was on lyrica for a couple years but stopped about 3 months in when I started nardil, didn't notice any change when I dropped it.


I'm in two minds as to whether lyrica helped at all..you take it everyday and although tolerance isn't supposed to build, you definitely lose something. Taken prn, its really good, and works great for anxiety, so good in fact its nice to binge on ha.



With adderall, I could see a similar problem to lyrica, that, if taken daily, you build tolerance and dont feel too much of the feelgood effect anymore. I guess your experience is different ?


If I was prescribed adderall monthly, there wouldnt be much left after day 5 lol.
Tolerance does build up for sure. I do recommend taking breaks but not for too long. Sort of like 2-3 day breaks every 7-14 days.

I used to get adderall monthly. It got to that point where I would take much larger amounts than what I was prescribed. I told my doctor and he was glad about my honesty. He offered weekly dispensing but even then it wouldn't have solved the problem. So I asked if I could get it dispensed daily. So here I am getting it dispensed daily and everything is going great.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-11-2020, 03:11 AM
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Tolerance does build up for sure. I do recommend taking breaks but not for too long. Sort of like 2-3 day breaks every 7-14 days.

I used to get adderall monthly. It got to that point where I would take much larger amounts than what I was prescribed. I told my doctor and he was glad about my honesty. He offered weekly dispensing but even then it wouldn't have solved the problem. So I asked if I could get it dispensed daily. So here I am getting it dispensed daily and everything is going great.
taking breaks helps alot indeed, also magnesium should help building tolerance a little slower, not 100% sure if it works but i just take it as a supplement.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-11-2020, 06:37 PM
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taking breaks helps alot indeed, also magnesium should help building tolerance a little slower, not 100% sure if it works but i just take it as a supplement.
Oh cool. That's good to know thankyou. I've heard of memantine helping to slow down tolerance or even reverse it a bit. Magnesium in theory works similarly to memantine.
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-25-2020, 09:04 PM
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taking breaks helps alot indeed, also magnesium should help building tolerance a little slower, not 100% sure if it works but i just take it as a supplement.
Is this in response to Lyrica? I'm on my fourth day of 50mgs and it almost feels too strong (perhaps it's the combo with 100mg Lamictal)
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-27-2020, 10:13 AM
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Thanks for all the info. I was wondering why you think nardil is so good at preventing blushing and sweating? I can deal with the other physical aspects of SA but those two really kill me. Nardil completely cured me of it and I desperately want the relief again. I was thinking about trying parnate but isn't it even more stimulating? I had to cycle a few sleep meds just to get any sleep on nardil. Any thoughts on Selegiline being good for blushing and sweating?
I would say that selegiline isn't anywhere near as good as nardil. Parnate is more effective than selegiline. I would recommend using Parnate over selegiline. Parnate is also stronger at increasing dopamine than selegiline according to Dr. Ken Gilman. I'd recommend visiting Dr. Ken Gilmans website psychotropical.com to learn more about maoi's.

https://psychotropical.com/

If you are trying to produce an on par therapeutic effect that nardil provided, using parnate is definitely the way to go. In terms of blushing, I don't know what it is about nardil that provides the benefit.
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