Lack of dopamine ? - Social Anxiety Forum
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-03-2016, 09:39 PM Thread Starter
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Lack of dopamine ?


Hey,

As I have found that SSRIs don't affect me much (they reduce a little anxiety but nothing more), I am starting to think that my SA has more to do with the fact that I feel anxious because I have very low levels of interest for things in life and find exhausting to constantly try to pretend when I don't have a drive. I have reduced my shyness a lot but still can't find a way to be happy, I still feel different. People always say I look bored, indifferent, without any emotions... And still I try not to be like that. As a result I crave for substances that can give me motivation and envy to do things... I auto medicate with alcohol, even if it is stupid and I know it, only because the feelings I get from it are two good, I can't give up on that (still I can be sober for a month if I wan to). When I drink all become interesting and enjoyable, I suddently want to do a lot of things that would otherwise bore me. When I drink a lot, I feel very depressed the day after, to the point of having suicidal thoughts. I also recently tried coffee and I have started to drink a lot of it as it makes me feel good. Ecstasy doesn't do much, it is less enjoyable than alcohol. I need higher dose than my friends. I feel ok on it but if I don't drink with it it's really not so enjoyable. Alcohol makes me way more social and motivated. It could be a sign, since I read that mdma primarily affect serotonin and a little dopamine.

I am very forgetful and distracted in my everyday life, I make a lot of stupid mistakes. I always assumed that it was because anxiety and depression were taking my mind (and it could be), but it could also be the result of low dopamine right ? I also tend to get tired. I take a lot of time to sleep because my mind can't shut up but once I am asleep I can sleep for a very long time and still feel tired. I have slight tremors, muscle twitching... Sometimes when I am not tired I get really agitated, like I have to move all the time or do something, but I can't really focus on anything that requires mental concentration.

Does it make sense ?

I will talk about it to my psy (cautiously, because I know that most of them get annoyed and close up when you show that you have done some research on your own).

Thing is, in France, there is not so many drugs that works on dopamine... There is no aderall and welbutrin is not used for depression and anxiety.
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-04-2016, 11:16 AM
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Yes Dopamine plays a big role in both the "Dopamine theory of depression", and in Anxiety...

Don't mention the hand tremor, since "stimulants" can increase such... Go to your GP and get a low dose of the non-selective betablocker Propranolol for that!...

Otherwise you could always say you are trying to quit smoking or such, and therefore use Wellbutrin/bupropion

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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-04-2016, 12:43 PM Thread Starter
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Yes Dopamine plays a big role in both the "Dopamine theory of depression", and in Anxiety...

Don't mention the hand tremor, since "stimulants" can increase such... Go to your GP and get a low dose of the non-selective betablocker Propranolol for that!...

Otherwise you could always say you are trying to quit smoking or such, and therefore use Wellbutrin/bupropion

Well from what I read hand tremors can be caused by both low and high serotonin level. Also I don't get very agitated by stimulant. Once I made a little test: I took smtg like five expressos and I didn't feel any anxiety outburst or anything like that. I didn't had more hand tremors than usual.

It would be useless to lie about welbutrin since when it is prescribed to quit smoking, the max length of treatment is six weeks. The only way to get it is to convince my GP to prescribe it to me for an off label use. Some are not opposed to it. Or maybe I can raise my effexor dose but I don't really feel like taking a high dose of that stuff.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-04-2016, 01:06 PM
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Where you on an SRI or SNRI when trying any stimulants? including MDMA/ecstasy?

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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-04-2016, 04:51 PM
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Hm, Wellbutrin isn't a strong dopaminergic drug. You would not feel anything like if you tgake Methylphenidate.

I said, ask your Doctor about Selegiline. With that you can have a real dopaminergic antidepressant.

My wonderful new individuell combo. Better then Parnate and Nardil
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-04-2016, 05:51 PM Thread Starter
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Hm, Wellbutrin isn't a strong dopaminergic drug. You would not feel anything like if you tgake Methylphenidate.

I said, ask your Doctor about Selegiline. With that you can have a real dopaminergic antidepressant.
I don't want to take MAOIs, couldn't handle the food/drink restrictions. Plus I am pretty sure my doc would not agree.
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-04-2016, 05:59 PM Thread Starter
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Where you on an SRI or SNRI when trying any stimulants? including MDMA/ecstasy?
Coffe yes, I take effexor, mdma no. I always look for some info before mixing two drugs. I know that that MDMA and SSRIs don't get well together, and that MDMA effects are suppressed anyway.

Only stupid mix I do is alcohol and SSRI/SNRI. Turn out that mixing alcohol and effexor is even worse than alcohol/paxil. WIth moderate amount it's ok. But I crossed the line a few days ago and went maniac for the first time in my life. I became complelty crazy for about ten hours. End up in a cell covered in blood. Really creepy. Gonna watch that now.
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-04-2016, 06:15 PM
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Coffe yes, I take effexor, mdma no. I always look for some info before mixing two drugs. I know that that MDMA and SSRIs don't get well together, and that MDMA effects are suppressed anyway.

Only stupid mix I do is alcohol and SSRI/SNRI. Turn out that mixing alcohol and effexor is even worse than alcohol/paxil. WIth moderate amount it's ok. But I crossed the line a few days ago and went maniac for the first time in my life. I became complelty crazy for about ten hours. End up in a cell covered in blood. Really creepy. Gonna watch that now.
Ehh Stuff happens, lesson learned... Don't binge drink!.

But otherwise, yeah there is people that do benefit from dopamine... Most commen is Methylphenidate /Ritalin... i however find Amphetamine to be more effective...


There is some new/ well old, research about the Dopamine Agonist Pramipexole...
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/861659

heres is an article Dr. Mariano links to in the comments on the article
http://www.moodtreatmentcenter.com/pramipexole.htm

Of course i feel i have to warn you about DAWS (dopamine agonist withdrawal symptoms)...

Hello Darkness my old friend... I've come to talk with you again.

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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-05-2016, 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Schneegestein View Post
Hm, Wellbutrin isn't a strong dopaminergic drug. You would not feel anything like if you tgake Methylphenidate.

I said, ask your Doctor about Selegiline. With that you can have a real dopaminergic antidepressant.
I see that you take bromantane. Can it be safely taken with MAOIs?
Does it help?

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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-05-2016, 02:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneegestein View Post
Hm, Wellbutrin isn't a strong dopaminergic drug. You would not feel anything like if you tgake Methylphenidate.

I said, ask your Doctor about Selegiline. With that you can have a real dopaminergic antidepressant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassoulet94 View Post
Coffe yes, I take effexor, mdma no. I always look for some info before mixing two drugs. I know that that MDMA and SSRIs don't get well together, and that MDMA effects are suppressed anyway.

Only stupid mix I do is alcohol and SSRI/SNRI. Turn out that mixing alcohol and effexor is even worse than alcohol/paxil. WIth moderate amount it's ok. But I crossed the line a few days ago and went maniac for the first time in my life. I became complelty crazy for about ten hours. End up in a cell covered in blood. Really creepy. Gonna watch that now.

While i was on effexor and other SSRIs i used to drink at least 3 times a week. It is absolutely safe. Now i take nardil (almost 9 months) and i do not drink at all because it helps a lot so i dont need alcohol anymore. other medications that helps with nardil are tianeptine, phenibut, lyrica and modafinil.

Nardil 60 mg - depression/social anxiety
Lyrica 300 mg - GAD,
Isopropylphenidate 15 mg or 3-FPM 10 mg - ADHD

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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-05-2016, 04:40 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by watertouch View Post
Ehh Stuff happens, lesson learned... Don't binge drink!.

But otherwise, yeah there is people that do benefit from dopamine... Most commen is Methylphenidate /Ritalin... i however find Amphetamine to be more effective...


There is some new/ well old, research about the Dopamine Agonist Pramipexole...
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/861659

heres is an article Dr. Mariano links to in the comments on the article
http://www.moodtreatmentcenter.com/pramipexole.htm

Of course i feel i have to warn you about DAWS (dopamine agonist withdrawal symptoms)...
Yeah Ritalin is a possibility... If I have adhd, which could be the case, I have to get tested. It would bother me since yeah I am not too comfortable with taking short acting drugs with rebound effects.

Pramipexole, no way I can get it, plus I think I am not there yet, seems pretty powerful.

Two weeks ago I switched from paxil 30mg to effexor 150mg and I feel that effexor is not as useful as paxil... No sexual side effect but feels a little like a sugar pill. I am more anxious and still feel tired in the same time, not energizing one bit. I know I still have to wait but I was expecting a fast onset since I was already taking an SSRI.

If it doesn't get better, I think I could try Zoloft + bupropion or a highest dose of effexor and bupropion (could be too much SE, I would prefer the former), so I have two drugs that works a little on dopamine.
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-05-2016, 04:43 PM Thread Starter
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While i was on effexor and other SSRIs i used to drink at least 3 times a week. It is absolutely safe.
Be careful before writing BS. Binge drinking while taking SSRI can be dangerous as SSRIs reduce alcohol tolerance and can lead to crazy risk taking behaviors and frequent black outs. It may not be the case for you but I have talked with a lot of people who had the same kind of reaction. Moderate drinking is ok though.

So write is was ok for you but not "it's absolutely safe", because it's not.
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-05-2016, 05:00 PM
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Sure a psych patient should probably in general not drink but i don't find any interaction with it

from the swedish prescribersguide www.fass.se
http://www.fass.se/LIF/product?6&use...0024&docType=3

One can use google translate for the full text.
Ethanol Venlafaxine does not increase the impairment
of mental and motor skills caused by ethanol.
As with all CNS-active substances, patients
should be advised to avoid alcohol consumption.

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What's Dr. Stahl say?
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-05-2016, 05:08 PM Thread Starter
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Sure a psych patient should probably in general not drink but i don't find any interaction with it

from the swedish prescribersguide www.fass.se
http://www.fass.se/LIF/product?6&use...0024&docType=3

One can use google translate for the full text.
Ethanol Venlafaxine does not increase the impairment
of mental and motor skills caused by ethanol.
As with all CNS-active substances, patients
should be advised to avoid alcohol consumption.
It's not toxic. But still, lot of bad experiences reviewed online. I found that also

http://www.pharmaceutical-journal.co...091677.article
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-05-2016, 05:17 PM
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Yeah its not like im arguing about it, rule still apply: Don't binge drink or do shotstreys, try it at home in low amounts at first.

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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-09-2016, 12:20 PM
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Sure a psych patient should probably in general not drink but i don't find any interaction with it
My GP says I should not drink. Why? "Uh, I don't know. I'm simply arrogant and my name is followed by MD, so I must be right."
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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-09-2016, 12:27 PM
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My GP says I should not drink. Why? "Uh, I don't know. I'm simply arrogant and my name is followed by MD, so I must be right."
Ever gotten the: "You are not a Dr."
It seems to be their main go to line, when backed into a corner.

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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-09-2016, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Schneegestein View Post
Hm, Wellbutrin isn't a strong dopaminergic drug. You would not feel anything like if you tgake Methylphenidate.

I said, ask your Doctor about Selegiline. With that you can have a real dopaminergic antidepressant.
Might try this too.
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-09-2016, 04:02 PM
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Everything you said with exception of the alcohol or illicit drug use describes how I've felt for the last year and a half. All I do is fantasize about drug use. I've lost all hope. I keep trying SSRI's and tricyclic antidepressants. But I either can't tolerate the panic attacks or bouts of anger and worsening depression they bring out in me the first few days I take them. The only SSRI I could tolerate was Celexa. But it was like taking a placebo. I felt no ill effects and no positive effects either. I did it for six months. That's long enough, right? I just tried Anafranil today and I had the single worst panic attack in my life. Lasted for an hour. I sat in a cemetery in the rain until it passed. Just to keep myself from calling 911 and being locked up. I liked Elavil but I couldn't take it every day because I'd be in a sedated stupor all day. Totally unnatural way for a human to live.
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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-09-2016, 04:16 PM
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"But I either can't tolerate the panic attacks or bouts of anger and worsening depression they bring out in me the first few days I take them."

Does this only happen the first couple of days, and then it fades/goes over?


What was the dose on the Clomipramine, and have you ever had an EKG done?

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What's Dr. Stahl say?
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