Would you pay 36,000 to be a doctor? - Page 2 - Social Anxiety Forum
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post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-22-2020, 02:13 AM
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Someone stop the world I want to get off!
Pretty much lol. Although I think nationalism is pretty toxic as well.



I really don't like that some people in this thread bring up America when the OP is from the UK. Just because America is particularly bat**** insane on tuition doesn't mean we should be normalising it.

When I did my degree I felt it was way too much money and wouldn't have if it wasn't a government loan that you only pay back when you're earning a certain amount. This was before they increased tuition fees here too from 3k to 7-9k a year (depending on uni.) And they have so much propaganda before you go to uni to try and get you to go like when I was in school they had all these events I was supposed to go to because they had info on students who are unlikely to go to uni based on their postcode/family background etc.

They tell you all these lies like after you graduate you can get a job earning 31k a year. My friend got a decent job out of uni (well took a year,) and was initially earning like 19k I believe and is still renting a one bedroom flat in his late 20s.

At this point we know it's useless. Most degrees will secure you a min wage job if that because some employers won't hire you still because you're overeducated. I just don't think most can justify it. Housing here is insane, people are moving abroad and turning their cars into homes so they can get some independence lol. Not to mention the public toilets. It's quirky and fun until you realise the sheer reason you find stuff like that quirky and fun (if you do, I personally like weird stuff/decaying aesthetics) is a coping stategy for the insanity of the world. Ie: normalisation of chaos. (in case time stamp doesn't work it's 7:10 - 10:30 minutes in this video.) I kept thinking about how many people feel this strong drive to create and how it helps them mentally when they struggle with mental health issues, and how my own lack of motivation in this area has been a fixation for me for most of my life because it feels very important (more than sex really,) and also thinking about Hitler and how he failed as an artist and how it seemed an important turning point. And I think I get it now. Aside from the drive against consumption, it's transformative properties allow the deferring of necessary social change in the group of people most likely to effect it. But the repeated recuperation of radical art forms and capitalism's soulless commercialised art forms, leaves people nihilistic and disenfranchised because it's an invasion of their defence mechanism.


My parents bought a house in their 20s (neither went to uni at the start of their career/working life, though my mum eventually did much later just before I did,) and I think people that age struggle to understand what has become of the world they only know via their children so if their children are doing way better than average they have no idea.


Perhaps the most stupid part is that, after all this money employers often continue to complain about how students lack the correct skills. I don't know, maybe do it yourselves then instead of culturally delegating the task to universities?

That's why they need immigrants though, because slaves start to grock that they're slaves by observing their parents lives (and the lives of older people around them.) Or maybe they just see this YouTube video lol (I've linked that one way too many times here but it's so bad lol.)

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Professor Cary Cooper of the Manchester Business School said that he agreed with the report that some graduates lack social skills and the ability to conduct face-to-face conversations.

“They have been raised on Facebook and texting," he continued.

He added that young graduates are still enthusiastic to learn, but because they have less interest in staying at the same company, employers regard them with suspicion.

“The new graduates have seen older employees, who have been at their companies for many years, dismissed and treated like disposable assets. They are trying to protect themselves. So, in other words, that traditional contract has been broken for that generation.

“They simply don’t have the same loyalties that were expected in the past.”
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Contrary to these results, official figures released in July revealed that where graduates chose to study strongly influences their employability prospects. For example, 92 per cent and 95 per cent of last year’s Oxford and Cambridge graduates respectively were working or studying six months after completing their degrees.

At the other end of the spectrum, nearly 23 per cent of London South Bank’s graduates last summer were unemployed after six months, along with almost 21 per cent of students from the University of East London.
Go figure.

The wretched world were living in at present was not an unlucky war of fate; it was an economic and political decision made without consulting the enormous human population that it would most drastically affect. If we would have it otherwise, if wed prefer a future that we can call home, then we must stop supporting even passively this ravenous, insatiable conservative agenda before it devours us with our kids as a dessert. - Alan Moore

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post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-22-2020, 03:32 AM
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But you know on that topic of US vs UK though:


the best part is when she finds out how much healthcare for having a kid is and she's like 'no thanks'


MiLleNilAls ArEn'T hAvIng BaBiEs.

The wretched world were living in at present was not an unlucky war of fate; it was an economic and political decision made without consulting the enormous human population that it would most drastically affect. If we would have it otherwise, if wed prefer a future that we can call home, then we must stop supporting even passively this ravenous, insatiable conservative agenda before it devours us with our kids as a dessert. - Alan Moore

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post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-22-2020, 08:29 AM
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I'm not wealthy mate - never have been. I've had a bit of money here and there but nothing all that special.

That amounts only about 70 grand Australian - sounds like a pretty good deal to me to become a doctor, Wow. You just pay it off.

Edit: you are right about spending a lot in one day though - but that was when I was manic.
You are wealthier than 99% of people, as evidenced by your regular air travel and hotels -- two things most of us have never experienced because of the expense. I agree you're probably not very wealthy in terms of savings because of the mania, but you certainly are in terms of resources / income, which is what determines your judgment of what a lot of money is. The 99th percentile of income is around $33,000 USD / $47,000 AUD per year and I can't see how you've done any of the things you post about if you're below that.

If you have a 100% certainty of becoming a doctor for the rest of your working life, then yes it's not much money because doctors earn lots. But that's not reality. Reality is there's always a significant chance of failure (failing the classes, failing practical tests, failing to get hired due to poor interviewing skills, or discovering you can't stand the work or burning out), which means trying to pay off the loans while working periodic minimum wage jobs between stints of unemployment. A virtually impossible task.

Would you flip a coin if heads means you're rich and tails means your life is destroyed and creditors hound you until you die? I sure wouldn't. The decision depends on exactly how good the real odds are, which depends a lot on a lot of factors only the person making the decision can guess. It certainly shouldn't be taken lightly, though.

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post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-22-2020, 10:53 AM
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Yeah, I would make a great gynecologist



And I always thought this would be
the land of milk and honey
Oh but I came to find out that it's
all hate and money
And there's a canopy of greed holding me down.
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post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-30-2020, 11:12 AM
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The problem is there are no student loans for a second undergraduate degree, so I have to find the money myself.

The tuition fees total 36k and the student loans for living costs (I would have access to these) will only be about 4k at most per year in which to live on. In summary I would probably have to find 45,000. I do have a lot of savings, but not half of that amount.

At the moment I am thinking of not going to the interview as I just can't afford the course. I am also still waiting to hear if I have an interview for a graduate entry (funded) course but I suspect I will be rejected because I was rejected last year and the year before too.

In terms of the job itself, I think the course would be the most stressful part. I am very desensitized and can handle a lot. I'm good at putting people at ease too.

Yeah it's ****ed that it's so hard to get a job, even with a physics degree (1st class by the way). The MSc is in nuclear physics and I got a stipend so I didn't pay for that one.
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post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-30-2020, 12:05 PM
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I would post this on the reddit "lost generation" forum but my posts never show up

I'm 31 and I live in the UK. I have two degrees in physics. I have worked minimum wage jobs for all of my life. I've also spent a lot of time unemployed. I've clocked hundreds of volunteer hours in various sections. All of this has led me nowhere in life and I still live at home, unable to get any kind of decent job with decent pay. I've had some interviews for "good" jobs but never quite made it.

Last September I applied for medical school here in the UK. I applied to 2 graduate entry (funded) courses and 2 undergraduate entry (un-funded courses).

Anyway I've been offered an interview for one of the undergraduate entry courses. If I got in I would have to pay 9250 upfront for 4 years. I would also have to take out student loans for my living expenses. I'm not sure banks will even loan the money, but I would basically have to source 36,000 from somewhere.

So now I'm in a dilemma:

1. Possibly do the course and face crushing debt for maybe all of my life. But I will be a doctor.
2. Remain unemployed, uncertain if I will ever have a proper job and any kind of life.

I was kind of lucky because here in Luxembourg, I would get about 7500 euros FREE per year (for my studies) + about 450 euros/month because I my father died in 2007 and you have the right to a "orphan" pension.

This covered all my expenses for the 5 years I spent in Brussels.

To answer your question, which kind of "medical studies" are you talking about? If you are talking about becoming a physician, than it could be worth it. You will pay off that debt very fast.

It will be difficult tough to get a loan for studies because of your age.

You could still go study in a country where life is really cheap. Like east European countries. You would get away with way less than your 36000.

Medical studies have one positive side : You will very easily find a job. You basically have the guarantee to never be jobless.

But it is also very stressful and you will have nearly no life at all.

"Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist." ~ Our Lady of La Salette
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post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-01-2020, 01:37 PM
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I would say that getting into 36k debt and having to find a way to support yourself for 4 years whilst studying full time is probably not a good move.

With the physics qualifications you could easily become a tutor and charge 20/hr.
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post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-02-2020, 03:45 PM
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I would post this on the reddit "lost generation" forum but my posts never show up

I'm 31 and I live in the UK. I have two degrees in physics. I have worked minimum wage jobs for all of my life. I've also spent a lot of time unemployed. I've clocked hundreds of volunteer hours in various sections. All of this has led me nowhere in life and I still live at home, unable to get any kind of decent job with decent pay. I've had some interviews for "good" jobs but never quite made it.

Last September I applied for medical school here in the UK. I applied to 2 graduate entry (funded) courses and 2 undergraduate entry (un-funded courses).

Anyway I've been offered an interview for one of the undergraduate entry courses. If I got in I would have to pay 9250 upfront for 4 years. I would also have to take out student loans for my living expenses. I'm not sure banks will even loan the money, but I would basically have to source 36,000 from somewhere.

So now I'm in a dilemma:

1. Possibly do the course and face crushing debt for maybe all of my life. But I will be a doctor.
2. Remain unemployed, uncertain if I will ever have a proper job and any kind of life.

Do you want to become a Doctor ?
That is the only question that matters.

Working as a Doctor is a very thankless job. It is NOTHING like the Tv shows make it out to be. It's nothing like Doctor House where you can just sit in your office choose how many patients you want to see and come up with a miracle Diagnosis and spend the rest of your day playing guitar, motorcycling, taunting your friends or whatever other hobbies you have.

The profession takes over your whole life, it's a vocation, like becoming a Priest...it's part of your identity. Once you become a Doctor, you are always a Doctor..whether you are at work or not.

You are no longer a civilian. You cannot hide, shelter or panic when disaster strikes.. you are expected to serve.

And...no matter how many facebook memes you may see about "how great doctors are" ....most ppl can't wait for the doctor to mess-up....the people will turn on you faster than a light switch
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post #29 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-02-2020, 09:11 PM
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Yes, in a heartbeat. I love medicine and it would be well worth it since doctors make big bucks.
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