Self fulfilling prophecy of fear of mistakes - Social Anxiety Forum
 
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 05:30 AM Thread Starter
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Self fulfilling prophecy of fear of mistakes


When people criticize me I agonize over the mistake ...and become so afraid of the mistake that I make the same mistake repeatedly, each time the person become MORE annoyed at me making the mistake.

I realize this is true because whenever I am put into a situation with a person who is encouraging...I do just fine.

How can I overcome this ?
How can I truly learn from mistakes in a way that doesnt damage my self esteem and cause me to spiral into a pit of self-loathing.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 05:32 AM
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Probably making mistakes on purpose and seeing if the worst case scenario happens.

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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 05:53 AM
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Am not even joking. You probably grew up being punished severely for the tiniest mistake (as I did). That is your schema for mistake making, that terrible things will happen if you make mistakes. That schema however is probably no longer relevant, although some people will be knobs and be hypercritical with mistakes, but most probably aren't, its just that your old schema needs updating. The way to do that is to make non critical errors on purpose and see what happens repeatedly. It will be very hard for you to make mistakes on purpose though, because your old schema is that well enforced.

Try dropping stuff in public .

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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 07:22 AM Thread Starter
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Am not even joking. You probably grew up being punished severely for the tiniest mistake (as I did). That is your schema for mistake making, that terrible things will happen if you make mistakes. That schema however is probably no longer relevant, although some people will be knobs and be hypercritical with mistakes, but most probably aren't, its just that your old schema needs updating. The way to do that is to make non critical errors on purpose and see what happens repeatedly. It will be very hard for you to make mistakes on purpose though, because your old schema is that well enforced.

Try dropping stuff in public
.
Making mistakes on purpose ?? I'm naturally clumsy...its taken me years just to get to a point where I don't constantly bounce my toe....LOL.

I thrive at complex problems but suck at simple things like remembering a complete grocery list.

Growing up my Dad...though his intentions are best...can be very pessimistic...everytime I do something different he always has to point out all of the worst possible ways it can go.

In fact I have no memory of my father telling me go for it whenever I do something even remotely risky.

It's usually more off...if you do X this could go wrong...and people could say Z about you, and if ppl say say Z about you then you won't get Y.

"What you are doing is a stupid risk...you should take your time and do B instead; you may think you are ready for C but I KNOW you are not ready for C, because I know you better than you know yourself."

My father is very risk-advertent.

And then inadvertently when I attempt to do C...by myself...I commit the very mistake he warns me about...because I was so worried about failing in the first place...and then of course he says "you see, I told you, that you were not ready...go back to doing B,and I will tell you when you are ready for C."




The best way of explaining it is...my family makes me fear the world...I am always thinking of things going horribly wrong.

And at 28 yrs of age...it is very hard to shake off this mindset.
Prime example ...I know by now some of you realize that I have been posting threads about moving out and/or marrying my gf for almost 6 months now and I just ....CAN'T

I'm always thinking about
1) What if I move out and my salaray comes late
2) What if I move out and my mom's condition worsens
3) What if I propose and my gf says no
4) What if my gf breaks-up with me as soon as we move in together
5) What if I move in with her ,rumours start spreading about us "living in sin" and it costs me my job just like my dad says it would
6) What if I do get married but then my gf becomes a controlling Shrew just like my Dad keeps suggesting


These 5 doubts (and more that I cannot recall) have been pounded into my head so much ...I can't get them out...it's driving me nuts !!!

They never tell me anything encouraging. They never tell me "this will work" ..its always what can go wrong.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 08:44 AM
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@VIncymon absolutely the same. My parents (my mum esp) would constantly criticise me, often just needlessly correcting me when I did things in a perfectly reasonable way, to her way, which was just arbitrarily different but no more efficacious lol. That kind of thing, and being blamed for everything (inc her own mental health), leads to some ****ed up schemas about criticism.

But children are often highly criticised too, sometimes its out of frustration, or short term getting the child to comply (at long term cost).

But yeh, making mistakes on purpose. Also "good enough" (something my psychologist says to me a lot). Just do things to a good enough standard, finish early, don't put in the extra mile (because usually that **** doesn't make much difference). I have found on my MSc it actually doesn't matter beyond the point of me putting about 60% effort. Marks I get back for 60% or 80% effort are just the same, so meh, why bother putting the extra work in lol? (it means I have more time for other ****, and I don't spend 80% of my time worrying about getting **** perfectly).

Making mistakes, I actually went around a supermarket during my exposure therapy purposefully dropping stuff. Weirdest thing doing it on purpose. After a while I didn't care, obviously, and then I did accidentally drop something, felt that automatic embarrassed response and realised "wtf, I just dropped something 12 times in here yesterday, why do I give a ****?". Maybe not dropping things, but not doing things as well as you can, purposefully introducing the odd error, or yeh, wander around mildly ****ing things up and see what happens hah .

But pick where and when you do this. Not in front of controlling parents, for sure. You could also try to be assertive with them, slowly, if you can (read up on assertiveness first). It's what I did, but it was a very very long battle, because when behaviours are that ingrained (literally a lifetime) you have to be a stubborn ****er at setting and maintaining boundaries, or they will try to eat back into them.

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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 10:24 AM
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Making mistakes, I actually went around a supermarket during my exposure therapy purposefully dropping stuff. Weirdest thing doing it on purpose. After a while I didn't care, obviously, and then I did accidentally drop something, felt that automatic embarrassed response and realised "wtf, I just dropped something 12 times in here yesterday, why do I give a ****?".
This is my problem with techniques of the "shame attacking" variety (including most pick-up techniques, where people are encouraged to strike a pose instead of just being themselves).

The problem is that these are two different experiences: there is the experience of making a true mistake (dropping something by accident), and then the experience of an intentional act (dropping something on purpose). They are only superfically similar. They will elicit the same kind of reactions from others, so you will learn what kinds of reactions to expect, but you won't process the reactions in the same way: you process it one way when you make a mistake ("I've failed and people have noticed", and another way when you do it intentionally "I've succeeded in getting a reaction".) One is an experience of failure, the other an experience of success. This is why you can feel good about getting a reaction when you do it intentionally, but still feel embarrassed when you do it unintentionally, even though the two events are indistinguishable to others.

You can argue that this kind of exposure is a good stepping stone, but I feel like it's taking the long way around. And I'm not convinced that everyone (or even very many people) ever manage to take the next step. They never bridge the gap between "I can act as crazy as I want and it doesn't matter as long as I do it on purpose" and overcoming their feelings of shame.

@VIncymon You have internalized conditions from your parents, and from culture, that tell you when you have permission to feel good about yourself, and when you should feel bad about yourself. One of those conditions is that you should feel bad about yourself when you make a mistake. Another is that you should feel bad about yourself when someone notices your mistake.

These are not hardware issues but software issues. The conditions which elicit shame and embarrassment are culturally and individually determined and vary from person to person. You do not have to feel bad for making a mistake, and you do not have to feel bad when someone points that mistake out to you. You feel bad because you agree with their assessment of the situation and agree that you should feel bad. If you did not agree with it, you would not feel bad. If someone accuses you of something you haven't done, you may feel indignant, but unless you have pathological shame you will not feel embarrassed, because you do not share their assessment of the situation. Likewise, if you make a mistake but do not realize you have made a mistake, you will not feel bad, either. (You won't feel anything at all.)

So it's not the event, or the proposed event, that creates the feeling of shame; it's your interpretation of the event. It's a condition (unconscious, because learned in childhood) that you impose on yourself: "when you make a mistake, feel bad". (Many people have a corresponding rule that goes: "when you see someone else make a mistake, make them feel bad". The fact that not everyone has this rule just underscores the voluntary nature of these reactions.)

There are no perfect humans. Every person, without exception, including your parents, makes mistakes. No one is omniscient. No one knows what the best course of action is. You are going to keep making mistakes for the rest of your life. If everyone makes mistakes, there is no point making anyone feel bad about making them; that's just being churlish. If everyone makes mistakes, there is no point making yourself feel bad, since you too are a person. You have a right, and an obligation, to be kind to yourself.

Now I know that your instinct is to defend the habit of feeling bad about mistakes: if we don't feel bad when we do something wrong there will be anarchy and chaos. But that's not true at all. Mistakes are extremely important to make. You learn more from your mistakes than from doing something well. (When you get so good at something you can do it automatically you learn nothing at all.) Without the countless mistakes that people have made and learned from we wouldn't have civilization at all. So the correct response is not to feel bad, but to learn from mistakes.

What you can (and probably should, imo) do is feel bad about causing harm. Feeling bad about hurting someone (including, most definitely, hurting yourself) is different from feeling bad about making mistakes. A mistake can hurt someone or not hurt someone; causing harm can be intentional or unintentional. They only sometimes overlap. If you restrict feeling bad to occasions in which you have caused someone pain, you will be feeling bad about the only mistakes that you should feel bad about making. It then behooves you to make amends. That's enough corrective punishment to keep you on the straight and narrow. If you feel bad about every mistake you're just inflicting needless suffering on yourself (and you should feel bad about hurting yourself that way!).

So what I recommend is that you refuse to feel bad about mistakes. Instead, look at each mistake and ask: "who was harmed by this mistake?" If you haven't hurt anyone, refuse to punish yourself. Refuse to go along with people who want you to feel bad for not being perfect. Your gf saying no or breaking up with you is not a mistake; even the best people, who have done absolutely nothing wrong, get rejected and dumped. If she becomes controlling, that's her mistake, not yours, and you can learn to put your foot down. If people spread rumors about you they're the ones who should feel bad, not you. You're not responsible for your mother's condition.

What you have is a conditioned reflex to feel bad given certain conditions. The only way to overcome that conditioning is to replace it with a different kind of conditioning. You need to shift your focus away from "mistakes" to "harm". You need to appreciate the good that mistakes do you by teaching you new things. Be thankful for them! The more mistakes that you make, the faster you learn, which is why people who aren't afraid of mistakes tend to learn much faster and more thoroughly than perfectionists, who refuse to take the first step. It will be difficult to change these habits at first, but if you keep at it you will get better at it. It's just like learning the customs of any new culture.

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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 12:44 PM
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This is my problem with techniques of the "shame attacking" variety (including most pick-up techniques, where people are encouraged to strike a pose instead of just being themselves).

The problem is that these are two different experiences: there is the experience of making a true mistake (dropping something by accident), and then the experience of an intentional act (dropping something on purpose). They are only superfically similar. They will elicit the same kind of reactions from others, so you will learn what kinds of reactions to expect, but you won't process the reactions in the same way: you process it one way when you make a mistake ("I've failed and people have noticed", and another way when you do it intentionally "I've succeeded in getting a reaction".) One is an experience of failure, the other an experience of success. This is why you can feel good about getting a reaction when you do it intentionally, but still feel embarrassed when you do it unintentionally, even though the two events are indistinguishable to others.

You can argue that this kind of exposure is a good stepping stone, but I feel like it's taking the long way around. And I'm not convinced that everyone (or even very many people) ever manage to take the next step. They never bridge the gap between "I can act as crazy as I want and it doesn't matter as long as I do it on purpose" and overcoming their feelings of shame.
Am not quite proposing a shame attacking technique though, more of an "allow mistakes, and allow less than perfection, aim for good enough" kind of deal. This is to unconsciously update schema's which he has, and developed around his parents, but no longer are particularly useful in his current environment. I feel that schema's work pretty well at explaining this idea, anxiety in particular (as a result of bullying, or criticism) are schemas which once made perfect sense, but in all likelihood no longer do (the environment is different now). Standard Piaget stuffs.

My own therapy for AvPD involved "exposure", but as it turns out (and I realised this only fairly recently), this was actually schema therapy. Updating old schema's with new ones, the process similar to exposure but without necessarily the habituation element. Although a lot of new experience needed to update old schema's.

In this context, purposefully making mistakes becomes less of a shame attacking technique. You are right I think, and I hadn't really looked on my own experience in that way, but I do still feel that allowing for error, purposefully making mistakes, and observing reactions should help to some degree because of the updating of schema's that occur. Yes, processing is very different, but unconsciously a similar behaviour, with an unexpected result should eventually result in an updated schema. There is a mechanism there for bridging that particular gap. Perhaps the key point however (and what is missing from most shame attacking), is the relevance to the underling schema (and this is why my psychologist presumably wanted to direct me back off "exposure" as a goal, and onto real life scenarios). Very interesting (as this only occurs to me now, ty truant ).

So to update my previous post, with your idea, which I agree with, perhaps the mistakes OP makes on purpose need to be sufficiently relevant to the errors one fears, to allow for schema alteration. Or perhaps this only is particularly relevant for disordered personality?

There isn't any point in learning to urinate in the street, when one is fearful of failure when writing an essay. That deals with different schemas. The correct idea there would be to reduce standards on essays, allow for some level of failure, do a slightly half arsed job and see what happens.

All very interesting though.

I definitely take your point re the different processing, they are markedly different. Maybe the act of purposefully doing something is too different a schema anyway? So perhaps relaxing standards is better?

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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 02:25 PM
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Humor is by far the best weapon against the fear of criticism or ridicule: when you yourself find the situation as funny and can joke about it, then it no longer seems like a big deal.

From my recent experience: I was going downstairs in a place with low ceiling and hit the door ceiling with my head. Someone asked, "You're okay?" I responded with something like, "Oh, yeah. Well, I guess, I can't break walls with my head after all!" The tension is discharged, everyone is smiling, all is well!

How to cultivate it? Just start actively noticing something funny about everything around you. Especially every time you feel fear on anxiety, ask yourself, "What's funny about the current situation?" It very quickly will become a habit, and you will unconsciously discharge tension with humor, and your fears will dissipate.
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 03:04 PM
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Someone asked, "You're okay?" I responded with something like, "Oh, yeah. Well, I guess, I can't break walls with my head after all!" The tension is discharged, everyone is smiling, all is well!
....I'm a fan of the self derogatory humour myself, you could also have said " Ah well there's nothing much to damage in there anyway, the rabbit at the controls is wearing a seatbelt 😉 "






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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 04:39 PM
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Am not quite proposing a shame attacking technique though, more of an "allow mistakes, and allow less than perfection, aim for good enough" kind of deal. This is to unconsciously update schema's which he has, and developed around his parents, but no longer are particularly useful in his current environment. I feel that schema's work pretty well at explaining this idea, anxiety in particular (as a result of bullying, or criticism) are schemas which once made perfect sense, but in all likelihood no longer do (the environment is different now). Standard Piaget stuffs.

My own therapy for AvPD involved "exposure", but as it turns out (and I realised this only fairly recently), this was actually schema therapy. Updating old schema's with new ones, the process similar to exposure but without necessarily the habituation element. Although a lot of new experience needed to update old schema's.

In this context, purposefully making mistakes becomes less of a shame attacking technique. You are right I think, and I hadn't really looked on my own experience in that way, but I do still feel that allowing for error, purposefully making mistakes, and observing reactions should help to some degree because of the updating of schema's that occur. Yes, processing is very different, but unconsciously a similar behaviour, with an unexpected result should eventually result in an updated schema. There is a mechanism there for bridging that particular gap. Perhaps the key point however (and what is missing from most shame attacking), is the relevance to the underling schema (and this is why my psychologist presumably wanted to direct me back off "exposure" as a goal, and onto real life scenarios). Very interesting (as this only occurs to me now, ty truant ).

So to update my previous post, with your idea, which I agree with, perhaps the mistakes OP makes on purpose need to be sufficiently relevant to the errors one fears, to allow for schema alteration. Or perhaps this only is particularly relevant for disordered personality?

There isn't any point in learning to urinate in the street, when one is fearful of failure when writing an essay. That deals with different schemas. The correct idea there would be to reduce standards on essays, allow for some level of failure, do a slightly half arsed job and see what happens.

All very interesting though.

I definitely take your point re the different processing, they are markedly different. Maybe the act of purposefully doing something is too different a schema anyway? So perhaps relaxing standards is better?
I think they're just different schemas.

Schema A: "People don't like me."
Schema B: "Being disliked is bad and you should feel bad."

People might have neither, one, or both schemas. A person might think, "people don't like me" without feeling bad about the fact that people don't like them (some people like to be left alone). Another person might think that "being disliked is bad" but be liked (and counting their lucky stars that most people like them). People in these categories can handle their schemas. But when you have both -- "people don't like me" + "being disliked is bad" -- you can end up in a permanent state of self-loathing. Ofc, it might not be true, which is where a therapist steps in.

One approach is to challenge schema A: "People don't like me."

Person A, who is likable, goes out and confronts their schema. People respond favorably. Person A decides their schema is inaccurate and they update it. They go and tell people about the wonders of exposure therapy.
Person B, who is unlikable, goes out and confronts their schema. People respond unfavorably. Person B decides their schema is accurate and are now more convinced than ever. They go and tell people exposure therapy stinks.

Challenging schema A can help some people, but not all people, and it doesn't change the second schema, which is that it's bad to be disliked. If at some point the person who has corrected schema A finds that people start disliking them (eg. they get caught in a scandal) they're sunk.

Typically what happens when someone confirms their fears that they are, in fact, unlikable, the advice they're given is to change themselves until they become likable. "Learn how to talk to girls", "stop being a *****", etc.

Now you can divide Person B into two types of people:

Person Ba, who is initially unlikable but has the ability to make themselves likable, and
Person Bb, who is initially unlikable and does not have the ability to make themselves likable.

Person Ba has some set of advantages over Bb. They are not as unlikable to start with, they're more self-aware, they're smarter, they have a better coach, whatever. Person Bb is less self-aware, has a problem that can't be changed (eg. a physical deformity), is part of a disliked minority, etc. Some combination of disadvantages that they aren't able to overcome through their own efforts. Person Ba says "I used to be like you, but then I changed X and Y and now people like me." But Person Bb has also changed X and Y and people still don't like them.

Person Bb has come to the end of the exposure and self-improvement line. The only thing left is...

Challenging schema B: "Being disliked is bad and you should feel bad."

You can't challenge this by going out and seeing if people dislike you. And, most of the time (unfortunately), a person would only get to the point of questioning schema B if they'd already challenged schema A and found that it made the problem worse. The issue here is not how other people see them, but how they see themselves. If they see themselves through the eyes of other people, they will almost always decide that being disliked is bad and that they should feel bad because that's how almost everyone feels about it.

More generally what they should question is the premise that people should feel bad about not being perfect. (Or, another way to say it: it's bad to make mistakes.) Why should a person feel bad about not being liked? Not everyone can be liked. Why should a person feel bad about not being smart? Not everyone can be smart. Why should a person feel bad about not having a job? Not everyone can have a job. Etc.

Questioning this schema is extremely important because overturning it is the only thing that works for everyone. It's a metaschema. Being anxious, being depressed, being a virgin, being ugly -- none of it is a reason to feel bad about yourself. You don't have to test them one by one. You can be ALL of these things and still not feel bad about yourself. Because not everyone can have more good traits than bad traits, or even an average number of good and bad traits. Some people, statistically, are going to be stuck with a very large number of bad traits. And there must be a way for those people to feel good about themselves. But they can't do that by going out and confronting their "people dislike me" schema, or their "people think I'm boring" schema, etc., because they will simply find over and over again that, yes, people dislike them, find them boring, etc. And even if they spend their whole life trying to make themselves likable or interesting using their very best efforts, some of them will never succeed.

It would be very easy for me to hate myself. "Objectively", looked at through the lens of culture, I'm a colossal failure as a human being. Most people don't want to be anywhere near me because I look like a vagrant. I can barely afford to buy groceries. I've done absolutely nothing with my life. I couldn't get a date to save my life. Etc. People don't even know if I'm a man or a woman. I can know that people feel this way about me (wondering what went so horribly wrong) but I don't feel bad about it at all. I feel frustrated, sad, angry, afraid, all that other stuff about my problems, but I don't feel like I'm a bad person because I have those problems. I don't beat myself up or punish myself. Challenging this schema has allowed me to strip away a whole layer of pain from my existence. But if I hadn't done it, I would no longer be here.

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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 03:02 AM
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@truant I guess I should be careful here now, as we are prodding into more personal territory for both of us.. for me, I gained a lot from schema therapy, so don't like it being too criticised (it reduces my motivation), and for you, I don't want to minimise your experience and tell you you are "wrong, your schema just needs updating" (not what I am getting at at all).

I suppose in this thread we are specifically looking at the schema's of "I shouldn't make mistakes", or "making mistakes are bad", because the OP has built up his schema's in a place where making mistakes is definitely bad (overbearing parents were the authority), and massive amounts of criticism occured. Now he could (somehow, I am not sure actually how) deal with the feelings around the schema "It's ok to avoid doing things where I might be criticised" and just accept a life that isn't what he wants and learn to live with it, but in this case, his old schema is wrong. It doesn't match up to reality. There is no way real life is unforgiving as the kind of parenting he (I assume) experienced (I did too). It's kind of "well you got 90%, where did the other 10% go" lol. Real life its fine in most cases if you just pass.

For the OP, it seems fairly clear that for him to get past his fear of mistakes, he needs to start making some mistakes. He needs to adjust his schemas to reality and not the version of reality imposed on him by his parents. That means he has to test them out, and testing them out means not doing everything amazingly and seeing what happens (in extreme cases, like me, we would rather not do the thing at all than risk failure. I have noticed this in myself even doing totally unimportant things like gaming, or ****ing women lol ). My parental imposed schemas of perfection spread in me to all kinds of crazy areas (which is probably why my avoidance is so extreme and I got diagnosed with AvPD).

But you get the point I think, and I don't think we are in disagreement. There are certainly some cases where the schema is still valid, then changing that schema isn't going to work. Like any therapeutic tool there is a time and a place.

The only thing I would say, re your post, is that we have to be extremely careful in justifying avoidance. The point of the schema is that it runs like an object in a programming language, it saves time, we just reference it and its done. Inside that piece of code is how (in your example) of being liked, or not liked exists, its automatic stuff we never even look at for how people will react to us, how we feel about it, and what we tend to automatically think about it. I don't think we as individuals (with that piece of code being a fundamental piece of us) can impartially determine whether people actually would like us. Our thinking is unavoidably contaminated by the schema for us to know whether we should take on updating it. It's a decision for a therapist, or an actual good friend (who isn't influenced by that schema). And failing that, if the behaviour is clearly avoidant, its usually a safe bet the schema needs challenging.

In the case of the OP however, it seems clear to me that his schema of ultra perfectionism and fear of mistake instilled (probably by his parents), is no longer a good schema for his life. It needs updating.

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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 09:36 AM
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When people criticize me I agonize over the mistake ...and become so afraid of the mistake that I make the same mistake repeatedly, each time the person become MORE annoyed at me making the mistake.

I realize this is true because whenever I am put into a situation with a person who is encouraging...I do just fine.

How can I overcome this ?
How can I truly learn from mistakes in a way that doesnt damage my self esteem and cause me to spiral into a pit of self-loathing.
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 06:45 PM
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As more I try to do my best, the more mistakes I make... Not giving up is not for me anymore... Everytime I just prove that I'm just a mistake by myself...

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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-17-2019, 10:44 AM Thread Starter
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As more I try to do my best, the more mistakes I make... Not giving up is not for me anymore... Everytime I just prove that I'm just a mistake by myself...
I know what that feels like. Its like if someone chastizes you for leaving a door opened....i then overcompensate by either
A) trying so hard to keep the door closed i end up locking myself out or

B) i focus so much on closing the door that i forget the window open.

Its a lot of comments here... thanks ...not all of it i completely understand though. I gotta read up on "schema"
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-17-2019, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VIncymon View Post
I know what that feels like. Its like if someone chastizes you for leaving a door opened....i then overcompensate by either
A) trying so hard to keep the door closed i end up locking myself out or

B) i focus so much on closing the door that i forget the window open.

Its a lot of comments here... thanks ...not all of it i completely understand though. I gotta read up on "schema"
A schema is a belief that both explains our experiences and guides our behavior. For example, the schema "I'm worthless" (a belief a person has about themselves) explains why people treat them poorly and guides them to act in ways (ie. like someone of no worth) that perpetuates the schema (people continue to treat them poorly).

Schemas tend to be closed (dogmatic) systems: as long as a schema remains unchallenged, you will explain all of your experiences to yourself in a way that supports the schema. Example, the schema "nobody likes me":

Experience A: A person is rude to you. Explanation: "nobody likes me". Reaction: avoid contact with people, thus ensuring that no one has a chance to get to like you.
Experience B: A person ignores you. Explanation: "nobody like me". Reaction: avoid contact with people, thus ensuring that no one has a chance to get to like you.
Experience C: A person is nice to you. Explanation: "they're just being nice", or "they want something", or "they don't really mean it" (ie. the nice experience is invalidated). Reaction: avoid contact with people, thus ensuring that no one has a chance to get to like you.

No matter what anybody does, or how anyone treats a person with this schema, the person will continue to believe that nobody likes them. All of their experiences can be interpreted in a way that reinforces the schema. Over time, people accumulate a mountain of evidence supporting their schema, and they have deeply ingrained habits that continue to supply them with evidence. This is why if you challenge a person's schema, they will almost always object and provide a long list of evidence -- the evidence they use to support their beliefs. But if they'd had a different schema, they would have behaved differently and collected different evidence. (And they would be a different person.)

The most damaging schemas are the ones acquired early in childhood. Like a child who is ignored by their parents and stumbles across the explanation: "I'm not lovable". Once that schema takes hold, they will probably spend the rest of their lives confirming it. The job of parents is to make sure children aren't acquiring self-destructive schemas.

Other schemas include things like: "you can't trust anyone", "the world is dangerous", "people only care about themselves", "I'll never succeed", "mistakes are bad", etc.

That's my understanding of schemas, anyway. But I'm an armchair psychologist. @SplendidBob might have a better explanation. (I'll reply to your post later, Bob. )

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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-18-2019, 03:49 AM
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Hey VIncymon,

I can relate to what you been through I've only felt the same way.

I used to tell me self negative mental stories all the time.

That was until i found something that helped me a lot.

It currently is working the fastest for me that has helped me break cycles easily is;

1. Find the root cause of your desire to think these negative mental thoughts that lead to the emotional experience and fulfilling prophecy

It is usually a trigger that can be emotional or habitual experience.

2. Remove the attachment to the negative experience by doing some energy clearing (working with the root cause of your core beliefs with this and removing then)

3. Replace with new core beliefs or something positive and focus on the positive feelings and results you tend to create.

If you become triggered again repeat the process.

Usually after a few sessions when done well most negative beliefs, phobias, trauma, anxieties go.

If you want a template for identifying a limiting belief www.paradigmshifts.ml
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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old Today, 06:28 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifts View Post
Hey VIncymon,

I can relate to what you been through I've only felt the same way.

I used to tell me self negative mental stories all the time.

That was until i found something that helped me a lot.

It currently is working the fastest for me that has helped me break cycles easily is;

1. Find the root cause of your desire to think these negative mental thoughts that lead to the emotional experience and fulfilling prophecy

It is usually a trigger that can be emotional or habitual experience.

2. Remove the attachment to the negative experience by doing some energy clearing (working with the root cause of your core beliefs with this and removing then)

3. Replace with new core beliefs or something positive and focus on the positive feelings and results you tend to create.

If you become triggered again repeat the process.

Usually after a few sessions when done well most negative beliefs, phobias, trauma, anxieties go.

If you want a template for identifying a limiting belief www.paradigmshifts.ml
What is this ? I feel like it's going to hack into my computer or something
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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old Today, 07:02 AM
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just ****ing wing it.. works out for me half the time
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