Is having an Anxiety disorder a good reason to not consider to myself a coward or *****? - Page 3 - Social Anxiety Forum
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post #41 of 63 (permalink) Old 02-28-2019, 01:15 AM
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Is having an Anxiety disorder a good reason to not consider to myself a coward or *****? I was picked on in middle school and high school pretty bad and really regret not standing up for myself back then. Im 41 years old now. Was not diagnosed with social anxiety disorder until around 25 years old so Im pretty darn sure my disorder is the main reason I could not stand up for myself. My symptoms in school were pretty bad. Trembling and shaking in class if I had to give a class presenatation. Or I would simply try to skip class to avoid doing it. Had few friends if any.


Didn't help my mindset any that my dad would call me a ***** and coward for not standing up for myself. Wasant an overall bad farther but on this particular issue he had no sympathy or understanding at all. Guess environment he was raised in you were expected to fight or it was the worst thing ever. Not that I think about it Anxiety disorders have a big genetic component so a lot of it can be blamed on the bad genetic hand he dealt me.


Anyway so I have accepted that with my disorder was the main reason I did not deal with these bullying issues better. Say 75 percent of it. But I still feel that last 25 percent is on me and my fault and that I am a coward. Having a pretty severe social anxiety disorder does not completely let me off the hook. Im sure there are some people who had as had or worse anxiety disorders were able to handle it better. Guess I look back on it now and im still dealing with a lot of guilt and self blame. Any thoughts and can anyone relate. Thank you
Yeah this parenting style has produced such wonders as Myra Hindley:

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Hindley's father had served with the Parachute Regiment and had been stationed in North Africa, Cyprus and Italy during the Second World War.[115] He had been known in the army as a "hard man" and he expected his daughter to be equally tough; he taught her how to fight, and insisted that she "stick up for herself". When Hindley was 8, a local boy approached her in the street and scratched both of her cheeks with his fingernails, drawing blood. She burst into tears and ran into her parents' house, to be met by her father, who demanded that she "Go and punch him [the boy], because if you don't I'll leather you!" Hindley found the boy and succeeded in knocking him down with a sequence of punches, as her father had taught her. As she wrote later, "at eight years old I'd scored my first victory".[116]

Malcolm MacCulloch, professor of forensic psychiatry at Cardiff University, has suggested that the fight, and the part that Hindley's father played in it, may be "key pieces of evidence" in trying to understand Hindley's role in the Moors murders:

The relationship with her father brutalised her ... She was not only used to violence in the home but rewarded for it outside. When this happens at a young age it can distort a person's reaction to such situations for life.[117]

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post #42 of 63 (permalink) Old 02-28-2019, 08:38 AM Thread Starter
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Yeah this parenting style has produced such wonders as Myra Hindley:
Thanks for the response. Never heard of the Hindley case before now. That shows the downside of this kind of parenting style. It rewards you for being violent later in life. The Hindley case is an extreme example I would say though. I guess the question is how does it turn out for the average child who is raised with this parenting style? Obviously most don't turn out to be serial killers but probably have other bad outcomes.

In my personal situation my dad used this style of parenting. But his dad I know did it the same way with him so it is probably what he thought was normal.
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post #43 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-23-2019, 08:21 PM Thread Starter
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Update to this post. Been taking boxing lessons and learning to defend myself like some people on here suggested. Ive taken about 6 lessons. Hard workout and a good coach who is really encouraging and tries to build your self confidence.


Makes me wonder why the hell my dad didnt think of this back when I was being bullied. May not have helped with the social anxiety itself but perhaps with self confidence and being able to defend myself. I think I remember my mom suggesting martial arts(Asian martial arts like karate or Kung Fu) and my dad saying that's a fancy way of fighting and kicking is for P. All you need to do is throw punches and we are making stuff to complicated. But then again he really never got off his butt and taught me how to box either. Instead of insulting me he should have just taken me to martial arts or boxing lessons. Well none of this stuff matters now I guess just venting.
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post #44 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-24-2019, 11:27 PM
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Update to this post. Been taking boxing lessons and learning to defend myself like some people on here suggested. Ive taken about 6 lessons. Hard workout and a good coach who is really encouraging and tries to build your self confidence.


Makes me wonder why the hell my dad didnt think of this back when I was being bullied. May not have helped with the social anxiety itself but perhaps with self confidence and being able to defend myself. I think I remember my mom suggesting martial arts(Asian martial arts like karate or Kung Fu) and my dad saying that's a fancy way of fighting and kicking is for P. All you need to do is throw punches and we are making stuff to complicated. But then again he really never got off his butt and taught me how to box either. Instead of insulting me he should have just taken me to martial arts or boxing lessons. Well none of this stuff matters now I guess just venting.
Glad to hear your confidence is getting a bit better mate. That must have been horrible to have your father talk to you like that. (what a prick) no offence.

He should have come along with you and brought a baseball bat.
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post #45 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-27-2019, 08:04 AM Thread Starter
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Glad to hear your confidence is getting a bit better mate. That must have been horrible to have your father talk to you like that. (what a prick) no offence.

He should have come along with you and brought a baseball bat.
Thanks. Yea him talking to me like that did not do me any favors confidence wise for sure.

Bringing a baseball bat may have been going a bit overboard but he could have tried to give me some positive encourage or something like that. Teach me how to fight. Instead of just telling me to handle is myself
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post #46 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-27-2019, 10:08 AM
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Is having an Anxiety disorder a good reason to not consider to myself a coward or *****? I was picked on in middle school and high school pretty bad and really regret not standing up for myself back then. Im 41 years old now. Was not diagnosed with social anxiety disorder until around 25 years old so Im pretty darn sure my disorder is the main reason I could not stand up for myself. My symptoms in school were pretty bad. Trembling and shaking in class if I had to give a class presenatation. Or I would simply try to skip class to avoid doing it. Had few friends if any.


Didn't help my mindset any that my dad would call me a ***** and coward for not standing up for myself. Wasant an overall bad farther but on this particular issue he had no sympathy or understanding at all. Guess environment he was raised in you were expected to fight or it was the worst thing ever. Not that I think about it Anxiety disorders have a big genetic component so a lot of it can be blamed on the bad genetic hand he dealt me.


Anyway so I have accepted that with my disorder was the main reason I did not deal with these bullying issues better. Say 75 percent of it. But I still feel that last 25 percent is on me and my fault and that I am a coward. Having a pretty severe social anxiety disorder does not completely let me off the hook. Im sure there are some people who had as had or worse anxiety disorders were able to handle it better. Guess I look back on it now and im still dealing with a lot of guilt and self blame. Any thoughts and can anyone relate. Thank you

You know what I think? I think your dad is not helping. I have always thought of it this way, That our strength is not defined by the way in which we handle people or situations or even how we stand up for ourselves, but In the very idea that we are VERY strong people for enduring the things that we have had to endure throughout our entire time here on earth. People who have mental illness of any kind, especially anxiety are VERY VERY strong! And you know why? Because we are able to live with the things that normal people don't. For normal people, it's easy, that's not to say that they don't have struggles in life, but they do not have to go through as much of the struggle that we have had to. Just think of all of the times you have endured so much anxiety. Normal people don't usually have to deal with that. In my opinion, you're a freakin' warrior! We all are. No, we aren't crazy or freaks! We are people who have the ability to survive through these hardships.



In addition to this, we learn. Yeah, we may get pushed down to the ground by our anxiety, our mental ilnesses or even our bullies, but we get up and stronger than ever before! You may have not stood up for yourself in the past (I know I haven't), but you are learning to.



I am probably in no position to give advice because I'm 20, but I was bullied so bad that I got ptsd. I NEVER stood up for myself and I remember the very first time, in first grade, a boy pushed me down to the ground and I just backed away and told him to leave me alone. That same boy bullied me in 6th grade, Then I was bullied by a girl. She spread rumors about me to the whole school. I was very close to telling the counselor and I almost did, but something held me back. It was this fear that those girls would come back for me and in a worse way than before. Looking back at it, I regret it so much! I now know the importance of standing up for myself, but the thing is, you fail and you learn. Each time you fall you get back up and learn how to deal with it better than you ever have before. I remember that three girls in the hospital where I had been hospitalized had kept trying to slam the doors on my hands and oh man! I got so angry that I called the girl a b#tch right there in front of everyone! I called her out for everything she was doing which included talking trash about me and she got written up! She never messed with me again!


Anyway, I hope you understand what I'm saying. All I know is that you become stronger through each of these encounters with bullies. They push you down, but you have the choice to get up or stay down and let them step all over you. It's up to you.



All that matters is that you stand up for yourself now, the past is in the past.(it's all just memories in your head) Not even the future is real, until you make it happen.

H.P.
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post #47 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-27-2019, 11:27 AM
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Thanks. Yea him talking to me like that did not do me any favors confidence wise for sure.

Bringing a baseball bat may have been going a bit overboard but he could have tried to give me some positive encourage or something like that. Teach me how to fight. Instead of just telling me to handle is myself
Yeah, sorry about that - I tend to get a bit carried away.

My son went through a bit of bullying when he was a little man, only about 10 or so. Some of the kids were being really nasty to him - even the girls. Calling him names etc. It's very hard to see your son so upset - but also a very difficult situation to deal with, especially when you're just talking about little kids.

I ended up taking him right out of the school. I moved him to one up the road and then we went to some counselling for a while together. The school actually provided it for free. I'll never forget seeing his little face every morning going off to his new school - like a stone mask, he was very determined. That was a tough time.
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post #48 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-27-2019, 11:35 AM
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You know what I think? I think your dad is not helping. I have always thought of it this way, That our strength is not defined by the way in which we handle people or situations or even how we stand up for ourselves, but In the very idea that we are VERY strong people for enduring the things that we have had to endure throughout our entire time here on earth. People who have mental illness of any kind, especially anxiety are VERY VERY strong! And you know why? Because we are able to live with the things that normal people don't. For normal people, it's easy, that's not to say that they don't have struggles in life, but they do not have to go through as much of the struggle that we have had to. Just think of all of the times you have endured so much anxiety. Normal people don't usually have to deal with that. In my opinion, you're a freakin' warrior! We all are. No, we aren't crazy or freaks! We are people who have the ability to survive through these hardships.



In addition to this, we learn. Yeah, we may get pushed down to the ground by our anxiety, our mental ilnesses or even our bullies, but we get up and stronger than ever before! You may have not stood up for yourself in the past (I know I haven't), but you are learning to.



I am probably in no position to give advice because I'm 20, but I was bullied so bad that I got ptsd. I NEVER stood up for myself and I remember the very first time, in first grade, a boy pushed me down to the ground and I just backed away and told him to leave me alone. That same boy bullied me in 6th grade, Then I was bullied by a girl. She spread rumors about me to the whole school. I was very close to telling the counselor and I almost did, but something held me back. It was this fear that those girls would come back for me and in a worse way than before. Looking back at it, I regret it so much! I now know the importance of standing up for myself, but the thing is, you fail and you learn. Each time you fall you get back up and learn how to deal with it better than you ever have before. I remember that three girls in the hospital where I had been hospitalized had kept trying to slam the doors on my hands and oh man! I got so angry that I called the girl a b#tch right there in front of everyone! I called her out for everything she was doing which included talking trash about me and she got written up! She never messed with me again!


Anyway, I hope you understand what I'm saying. All I know is that you become stronger through each of these encounters with bullies. They push you down, but you have the choice to get up or stay down and let them step all over you. It's up to you.



All that matters is that you stand up for yourself now, the past is in the past.(it's all just memories in your head) Not even the future is real, until you make it happen.
That's a great post. Sorry to hear you had a hard time at school. I was lucky when I was little - I was a very cheeky little kid and used to get into punch-ups all the time, I never had any trouble with bullying.

And what you say about us being strong is exactly right. I was just thinking that the other day. I think I'm bloody strong - all the crap I've been through and even just surviving all the things I've done. Sometimes I'm amazed I'm even still here. Probably a fair bit of luck there though as well.
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post #49 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-27-2019, 09:25 PM Thread Starter
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Y I have always thought of it this way, That our strength is not defined by the way in which we handle people or situations or even how we stand up for ourselves, but In the very idea that we are VERY strong people for enduring the things that we have had to endure throughout our entire time here on earth. People who have mental illness of any kind, especially anxiety are VERY VERY strong! And you know why? Because we are able to live with the things that normal people don't. For normal people, it's easy, that's not to say that they don't have struggles in life, but they do not have to go through as much of the struggle that we have had to. Just think of all of the times you have endured so much anxiety. Normal people don't usually have to deal with that. In my opinion, you're a freakin' warrior! We all are. No, we aren't crazy or freaks! We are people who have the ability to survive through these hardships.
Very well thought out and said. I totally agree. We are tough and strong because we survived and made it through all the difficult things we had to endure. Normal people are not as mentally tough for the most part because they don't have to face the challenges that we do dealing with our mental illness.
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post #50 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-28-2019, 01:00 PM
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Having a big strong father is no good. My father was big and strong and respected (or even feared due to his strong character) in his younger years. He changed once I was born, he got softer but I heard all the stories of how he was before I was born, what a guy, I thought as a kid!
I wanted to be the same but didn't have it in me, I was in fact the exact opposite both mentally and physically. I'm now a useless middle aged pathetic man with no voice and even less ambition and goals. I simply can't handle life, it's too heavy for me to lift. My frail shoulder's will one day collapse. I'm so pathetic that I still live off of his money. He must be sorely disappointed yet he doesn't even show this, so soft. Change it? I can't, I got no spine.
He could have done more, for example throw me in the deep, he didn't, he became too soft. I can blame him but why should I, we all make mistakes, his was not deliberate.

If by some completely unexpected drastic change I produce a kid I will make sure to be hard on him/her. Being soft creates soft people.
I don't know you're Dad mate (or you), but I think it's sad you call him soft. It sounds to me like he loves you. That's something that should be treasured above all else. Maybe he could have tried to encourage you to get out there a bit more - but in the end it's you that has to do it, not him.

And being "soft" as you call it - creates someone that loves you. (usually) If he'd have thrown you out in the street or treated you badly you would have hated him, or possibly turned out worse.
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post #51 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-28-2019, 01:18 PM Thread Starter
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He could have done more, for example throw me in the deep, he didn't, he became too soft. I can blame him but why should I, we all make mistakes, his was not deliberate.

If by some completely unexpected drastic change I produce a kid I will make sure to be hard on him/her. Being soft creates soft people.
Well my dad was a real a hole and not "soft" and that didn't turn out well. So I think people need a father who is not to extreme in either direction. Soft when it comes to supporting you but hard when it comes to discipline when you need it
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post #52 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-28-2019, 04:12 PM
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I think the way you react to people and how they treat you goes deeper than anxiety, it's more your character than anything, but can also vary person to person. I have social anxiety but I would have no issues standing up for myself if need be, but some one else might not feel the same. I think not standing up for yourself is just a characteristic where you are just not confrontational. There's nothing wrong with either of these scenarios either as long as you're taking care of yourself at the end of the day whether that involves sticking up for yourself or not - some are perfectly okay with not saying anything back to these people that mistreat you. It all comes down to how you see yourself and feel about yourself sans opinions of others.
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post #53 of 63 (permalink) Old 11-30-2019, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
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Our strength is not defined by the way in which we handle people or situations or even how we stand up for ourselves, but In the very idea that we are VERY strong people for enduring the things that we have had to endure throughout our entire time here on earth. People who have mental illness of any kind, especially anxiety are VERY VERY strong! And you know why? Because we are able to live with the things that normal people don't. For normal people, it's easy, that's not to say that they don't have struggles in life, but they do not have to go through as much of the struggle that we have had to. Just think of all of the times you have endured so much anxiety. Normal people don't usually have to deal with that. In my opinion, you're a freakin' warrior! We all are. No, we aren't crazy or freaks! We are people who have the ability to survive through these hardships.
Very well said. I need to start thinking of myself as strong for all the crap I have had to endure due to my mental illness. A lot of "normal people" would not have been able to deal with the struggles we had to go through and would have given up. I would certainly consider myself to be resilient. Im able to withstand difficult conditions. Well at least not completely fall apart from them anyway.

I read somewhere that "toughness is about managing and dealing with stress over the short term, whilst resilience is about managing and dealing with stress over the long term."

So I guess I was not tough for dealing with the bullies or my father the way I did but I was resilient in the way I handled it in the long run.
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post #54 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-01-2019, 09:51 AM
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Very well said. I need to start thinking of myself as strong for all the crap I have had to endure due to my mental illness. A lot of "normal people" would not have been able to deal with the struggles we had to go through and would have given up. I would certainly consider myself to be resilient. Im able to withstand difficult conditions. Well at least not completely fall apart from them anyway.

I read somewhere that "toughness is about managing and dealing with stress over the short term, whilst resilience is about managing and dealing with stress over the long term."

So I guess I was not tough for dealing with the bullies or my father the way I did but I was resilient in the way I handled it in the long run.
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post #55 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-02-2019, 09:15 PM Thread Starter
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but I was bullied so bad that I got ptsd.
So sorry you had to go through that. I think I probaly have PTSD from it as well. Have you gotten treatment for it that really helped? What worked for you to get better?
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post #56 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-16-2019, 01:13 PM
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So sorry you had to go through that. I think I probaly have PTSD from it as well. Have you gotten treatment for it that really helped? What worked for you to get better?

I still haven't got past my PTSD. In fact, the meds that I am on have made it a little bit worse. I think counseling is the best option though. I had a counselor, but she was mean, so now i'm looking for a new one. I do know that counseling once helped me with social anxiety, but I stopped going and It stopped working. I was never really consistent with going to counseling these past couple of years. Probably since 2017.

H.P.
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post #57 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-22-2019, 02:03 AM Thread Starter
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I had a counselor, but she was mean, so now i'm looking for a new one.
A "mean" counselor is not a good quality to have in a counselor. They need to be supportive and push you out of your comfort zone when needed. But not mean. Hopefully you can find someone more effective and supportive.
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post #58 of 63 (permalink) Old 01-03-2020, 07:52 AM Thread Starter
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I did get beaten up a couple of times. The first time the guy hit me in the back of the head so hard he knocked me off my feet. I didn't even know he was there. Then he just jumped on top of me and punched the **** out of me. The second time, two guys jumped me from behind: one grabbed me and pinned my arms behind my back while the other punched me in the stomach. (I did manage to kick that guy down, but he just got back up.) The third time, there were about 8 guys. They circled me and my friend while we were out walking, led us to a field, and then the "leader" told me that if I fought back, they'd hurt my friend. So I just stood there while he hit me. (Actually, I curled up into a ball after the first hit, so most of the bruises were on my back/legs/arms.) To their credit, they didn't hurt my friend. Nothing heroic here, I'm afraid. The thing that really got me was the death threat. That came from a guy that everyone was afraid of. He'd already been in juvie for assault. And he later went on to beat up 3 of my friends.
Very horrible situation. Sorry you had to endure all that.

I always got the suggestion that if a group of people are bullying you that you punch or fight the biggest or toughest one of them. Then it will scare the other ones off. Not sure that would have worked but would like to go back and time and try it to see if it would have stopped it. Think that would have worked?
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post #59 of 63 (permalink) Old 01-03-2020, 01:16 PM
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I always got the suggestion that if a group of people are bullying you that you punch or fight the biggest or toughest one of them. Then it will scare the other ones off. Not sure that would have worked but would like to go back and time and try it to see if it would have stopped it. Think that would have worked?
I think that would have been incredibly dangerous for most people, and suicidal for me. Idk if it would have worked for you because I don't know what your situation was.

I have vertigo. If you push me, I just fall over. I can't handle a swingset, let alone a self-defense class. I'm also very uncoordinated, physically weak, and have no real ability to defend myself. I've also always detested violence in principle. How am I supposed to defend myself from people who are larger and stronger than me and who enjoy violence? Not only could I not have beaten the "biggest or toughest", I couldn't have beaten the smallest and weakest of the people who bullied me. People don't generally pick fights with people who are larger and stronger than themselves; they pick fights with people they're confident they can beat. And aside from that one psycho that everyone was afraid of, they never came at me one at a time; I always faced at least a pair of people, if not several. Had I gotten even one good swing in, I would have been dogpiled and wound up in the hospital. And throwing that punch would have only made things worse. I would have been putting not only my own life at risk, but possibly the lives of my friends and even people in my family.

Maybe what you're talking about works for some people, but I suspect, based on my experience, and my understanding of human nature, that this is mostly a romantic myth propagated by after-school specials. Real-world violence is not like a movie. Ime, every time you push back, unless you really are in a position of superior strength, you make the problem worse, not better. This has happened to me every time I've stood up for myself. Not only did the bullying get worse every year at school, until I felt like the best way to protect myself was to drop out, but I've been forced to move more than once after confrontations with neighbors and landlords (involving, I **** you not, people with chainsaws and axes). If you want to defend yourself physically, then you'd better goddamned well be ready for the ensuing escalation and increasing violence. If you're part of a hated minority like I am, and nobody will stand up for you, and your enemies feel morally justified to make your life a living hell, it's pure suicide to engage with people in that fashion. I used to believe that standing up for yourself was the right thing to do, but not once has it made my life better. The most I can say in its favor is that I can now say, "At least I tried."

Ofc, maybe your situation is different. Maybe you're a physically normal person with the ability to defend yourself, and maybe you only have one or a handful of people who don't like you. Then maybe you can get to that position of superior strength. But until you feel confident that you can achieve that position, I recommend you think twice about throwing a punch unless absolutely necessary.

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post #60 of 63 (permalink) Old 01-06-2020, 07:49 AM Thread Starter
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I think that would have been incredibly dangerous for most people, and suicidal for me. Idk if it would have worked for you because I don't know what your situation was.

Maybe what you're talking about works for some people, but I suspect, based on my experience, and my understanding of human nature, that this is mostly a romantic myth propagated by after-school specials. Real-world violence is not like a movie. Ime, every time you push back, unless you really are in a position of superior strength, you make the problem worse, not better.

Ofc, maybe your situation is different. Maybe you're a physically normal person with the ability to defend yourself, and maybe you only have one or a handful of people who don't like you. Then maybe you can get to that position of superior strength. But until you feel confident that you can achieve that position, I recommend you think twice about throwing a punch unless absolutely necessary.
Rough situation you were in. No way to defend yourself physically. Sounds like you would have been justified in using a weapon of some sort. Gun or knife maybe? Thought my situation was bad but you got me beat.

I think you are correct unless you "win" the fight it wont get better and probably worse. If you fight back at least you can tell yourself at least you tried but will probably make the situation worse. You have to win to actually stop it.

Also isn't good that in if you ask for help from someone your labeled a "snitch" and that will make things worse as well.
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