What is your take on the "Doomer/Gloomer" Subculture? - Page 3 - Social Anxiety Forum
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post #41 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 01:45 PM
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I think the e celebrities of today, push out a narrative that many people gobble up, in order to keep people coming back, these e celebs constantly push out fear, anger, and whatever it takes, to ensure they make some money from their viewers. As a result, a lot of people who are constantly bombarded with this absolute rubbish, are lead into a state of mind that is doomer/gloomer. It is like electric meth for the brain, nasty stuff, highly addictive, and leaves a person a hollow shell of their former self.

It is the reason why I said I think they are morons, they don't realize they are being manipulated and keep coming back for more. It is destroying their lives, but they can't get enough of it. Like moths to a bulb, they keep bopping their heads, but can't resist it, no matter how much it burns.
I related to it but I have no interest in "e celebrities". idk who you are talking about, who are the e celebrities?

I think you're just stereotyping... unless you have some evidence to back up your claims. electric meth also sounds pretty made up. I mean television has been around for a long time. would agree with you more generally that entertainment in general, from television onwards has taken over peoples lives. this is part of the reason I relate to the meme in the first place.

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post #42 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 02:10 PM
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I related to it but I have no interest in "e celebrities". idk who you are talking about, who are the e celebrities?

I think you're just stereotyping... unless you have some evidence to back up your claims. electric meth also sounds pretty made up. I mean television has been around for a long time. would agree with you more generally that entertainment in general, from television onwards has taken over peoples lives. this is part of the reason I relate to the meme in the first place.
People like Jordan Peterson, Alex Jones, PJ Watson, Sargon, the list really does go on and on. Most of them have hundreds of thousands of subscribers and rolling around in the dough, spewing their typical rubbish. If you want to make money on youtube, just follow their lead and you will be rolling in it. People who typically spew hate, paranoia, conspiracy, those are the kind of people I'm talking about.. They are incredibly popular, by all means e celebrities.

electric meth was made up.

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post #43 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 02:18 PM
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People like Jordan Peterson, Alex Jones, PJ Watson, Sargon, the list really does go on and on. Most of them have hundreds of thousands of subscribers and rolling around in the dough, spewing their typical rubbish. If you want to make money on youtube, just follow their lead and you will be rolling in it. People who typically spew hate, paranoia, conspiracy, those are the kind of people I'm talking about.. They are incredibly popular, by all means e celebrities.

electric meth was made up.
sounds like a separate issue from the doomer thing. I probably need to go back and look at them again, but I didn't see anything like that mentioned.

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post #44 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by zonebox View Post
People like Jordan Peterson, Alex Jones, PJ Watson, Sargon, the list really does go on and on. Most of them have hundreds of thousands of subscribers and rolling around in the dough, spewing their typical rubbish. If you want to make money on youtube, just follow their lead and you will be rolling in it. People who typically spew hate, paranoia, conspiracy, those are the kind of people I'm talking about.. They are incredibly popular, by all means e celebrities.

electric meth was made up.
Their philosophy (not sure you could say Alex Jones has one, mostly just fun in an eccentric way,) is the complete opposite of this meme... And the meme is purely a description of life for many 20 something year olds.
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post #45 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 04:25 PM
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Their philosophy (not sure you could say Alex Jones has one, mostly just fun in an eccentric way,) is the complete opposite of this meme... And the meme is purely a description of life for many 20 something year olds.
Dammit, I'm getting too confused in my old age and memes are way too hard to keep up with anymore. I thought Doomer/Gloomer/Clown World/Black Pilled, were all rolled up into one.

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post #46 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 05:52 PM
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Into the void by Black Sabbath (before memes or Reddit were ever around)

Back on earth the flame of life burns low
Everywhere is misery and woe
Pollution kills the air, the land, the sea
Man prepares to meet his destiny, yeah!


In regards to the impacts of the positivity movement, Barbara Ehrenreich's "Smile or Die: How Positive Thinking Fooled America and the World" is an interesting read.
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post #47 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 06:40 PM
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Dammit, I'm getting too confused in my old age and memes are way too hard to keep up with anymore. I thought Doomer/Gloomer/Clown World/Black Pilled, were all rolled up into one.
Never heard of Clown World (Oh OK it's the clown Pepe stuff.) Black pill probably overlaps with Doomer/Gloomer. The YouTubers you mentioned would be better described as 'red pill' (edit: except Alex Jones, he's partly larping as a schizophrenic person to get people who are high in schizotypy to buy his stuff, and partly ranting about transhumanism and DMT,) as I said Gloomer seems to be an 'upcycled' version of the Doomer meme:



A lot of stuff starts on 4chan and then spreads to other areas later. Most memes aren't inherently political, but people tend to frown on the ones that get picked up by /pol/

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post #48 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 06:48 PM
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This looks like a cartoon Elon Musk when he wasn't an old man.



(I don't know. Something about the generic (and odd) person vibe of Musk cracks me up.

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post #49 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 07:11 PM
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This looks like a cartoon Elon Musk when he wasn't an old man.



(I don't know. Something about the generic (and odd) person vibe of Musk cracks me up.
Hm maybe a bit, looks like he never had much hair though. I figured they were going for a vaguely dark nerd/half assed post-punk/emo fan vibe. It looks like he's wearing eyeliner but I'm pretty sure it's meant to be dark circles from lack of sleep but then 'good sleep schedule' that someone added conflicts lol.

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post #50 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 07:19 PM
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Fredly, I think it's awesome that it's become trendy to see reality for what it is. Even if they're not quite digging as deep as they should and it's kind of a superficial pop culture thing that will obviously go out of style in a few years or a couple decades or something.

It's like one day some dude woke up and said "Holy ****! This whole thing is not gonna end well! I need to tell everybody!" And he just happened to be someone who had a large audience. And everyone was like "Damn! This dude has a point!"

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post #51 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-17-2019, 07:51 PM
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I'm getting older so the labels are unfamiliar to me. However, just glancing at the memes, it seems like run of the mill depressed, anxious, avoidant/schizoid young pple. Pple with mental health difficulties. Types that have always been around. Only difference is everyone has access to the internet nowadays so online communities can form around **** that has been going on forever. Nothing new, just a different/defined label with more pple able to find each other and commiserate, imo.

There are many struggling. Always have been, likely always will be. The internet just makes everyone more visible and connected.

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Know your ACE (adverse childhood experiences) score?
Sometimes, SA is a symptom of significant developmental, attachment or interpersonal trauma (emotional neglect counts). If you're still stuck after you've tried SA treatments such as CBT and exposure, research C-PTSD and see if it resonates. Here's an awesome resource. Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving
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post #52 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-18-2019, 04:28 PM
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Very relatable, except drinking and smoking...
I have very dark sense of humor, so these things can be funny to me...

Even shy people can be sassy sometimes...
I'll put drunk raccoon in my signature as well, because I CAN...
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post #53 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-19-2019, 03:17 PM
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Some kind of doomer and gloomer subculture has been around forever. It's nothing new. There was a "slacker" Gen X subculture in the 90s. The core age now is 52. In my day - grunge, Nirvana, and Smashing Pumpkins were big. It was very cool to be depressed and listening to music you thought was cool. And then there was the Emo period in the late 2000s.

They're always coming up with the latest and greatest self-consciously sad and edgy subcultures.

I really hate the simple, dark emo-like quotes on Pinterest. They're a bunch of dumb kids trying to glorify and glamorize their worthless lives.

Even the beatniks and the Jack Kerouac crowd (uggh) were doomer and gloomers of some type, and they're worshipped and overrated for supposedly being cool, alternative, and "counterculture."

I'm never allowed into any subculture. I'm just rejected and seen with contempt, where ever I am.
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post #54 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 03:03 PM
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It seems like mostly an age thing. These(^) subcultures invariably appeal to kids in their late teens-early 20s, where some small event or upset can feel like the end of the world. But when one gets a bit older and gains some perspective, looking back on past eras - every generation had their shxt to deal with (k-war, v-war, '80s recession, '00s recession crisis, etc). And they always managed to survive and come out the other end intact. Human beings are more resilient than we think we are, probably. Unless dinosaurs come back and eat us all or something - then we're fxxked.

I didn't really the impression that the beatniks were depressing, though. They just seemed to me to be more into the whole spiritual/mysticism thing, away from the happy shiny polished surfacy image of the '40s-50s and looking more inward/introspectively, which would undoubtedly mean dealing with some of the darker parts of one's own psyche.

That said, though, maybe the post-War golden era did make people a bit too careless and negligent of the consequences down the road. The world that the millennials at inheriting from their parent generations does look rather bleak. I don't wanna blame the boomers...
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post #55 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 12:34 PM
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^I don't understand why people fail to quote or mention, but I appreciate that. If I delete a comment, the quote stays there on the internet forever.

The beatniks and Kerouac aren't as overtly doomer-and-gloomer as the Gen X Slackers, the Joy Division/synth pop/punk rock crowd, the Nirvana/grunge crowd, emo, goth, or today's newest subculture emphasized in this thread.

But I still put the beatniks/Kerouac in something related to the doomer-and-gloomer subculture. They're all still Western, self-conscious, pretentious, narcissistic, and self-glorifying subcultures.

Pinterest appeals to women my age, and the quotes/images there are so shallow and painful to read. There's the "positivity" quotes, glorified by Oprah/Ellen/Eckhardt Tolle and that whole New Agey subculture. The positivity quotes make me even more depressed - and studies have shown that doing gratitude exercises can make people even more depressed.

Pinterest also has tons of emo/goth sort of quotes/images that very vainly and shallowly glorifies being "sad," dark, suicidal, liking the rain/blackness, etc.
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post #56 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 03:31 PM
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^Ok good to know; I won't quote you then.

The punk mvmt actually seems pretty uplifting to me. Sure it's angry and aggressive, but it wasn't all negative, there's a sense of self-agency, 'The Establishment' has let us down so we gotta take things into our own hands. Regardless of what it has actually accomplished, I like that kind of grassroots energy, that - dare I say it - sense of empowerment of the masses.

Grunge otoh (which can be partially traced back to punk) was incredibly self-defeating, which probably explains why it didn't last too long, and didn't seem to have as wide-reaching of an appeal as some of the other movements. And it seems like everyone was pretty sick of being depressed by the late '90s-'00s, where we started to see this wave of mindless superficial happy poppy drivel as a reaction to that. I grew up during this period and it was fantastic, we hardly felt a blip of the doom&gloom that preceded us.

What are these studies you speak of? I'm curious. Do you have a link?

And yeah it's useless to tell depressed people to just 'be positive'. In order to be positive you need to first get to neutral first. If you try to run before you walk, then you're just going to fall a bunch of times and get frustrated and end up hating it.

I think the reason that a lot of this self-help stuff comes across as stupid and shallow is because the people preaching it don't have true insight into the actual transformation process. They either don't connect with the pain of their audience, or they're not as 'enlightened' as they want us to believe.

It's encouraging to hear the perspectives of people who have managed to lift themselves out of low points, though - those who are honest, who can admit that they still struggle with shxt and are not trying to sell you an image or whatever. But These kinds of people are hard to come by.
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post #57 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 08:01 PM
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The goth subculture isn't negative at all really.. (at least not in that woe is me way, I do think it's probably related to antisocial tendencies but in a controlled way, but obviously most people dislike that.) It's also not glorifying suicide that's more of the external stereotype. Or more of the external stereotype of emo, which was also fairly misunderstood especially since there was the music genre that started in the 80s (related to post-hardcore,) and then later the 2000s fashion/music thing which was separate. But sometimes goth and emo are conflated as well but they have a pretty different vibe despite superficial similarities.

Anyway the goth subculture aside from being a style and music genre, is really just a glorification of darkness and subversion. It has nothing to do with suicidality or negativity and is usually more about transformation. Most of the people into that start being into it at a young age:

Quote:
As a young girl I discovered that I preferred horror movies to the children’s films most kids my age were watching.

I was only five years old when I first sat through an entire film. And I thoroughly enjoyed every bit of it.

After this I was hooked. My dad was a preacher, which did limit the amount I could get away with watching, but the desire to watch more of them was there.
https://metro.co.uk/2019/05/22/goth-...tiful-9595972/

(whether they ID as goth or not, I personally don't at least in the self limiting sense of applying a single label, but I was also drawn to dark stuff at a young age)


Also the DIY aspect of the punk subculture is pretty great.
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post #58 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-21-2019, 08:20 PM
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^Ok good to know; I won't quote you then.

The punk mvmt actually seems pretty uplifting to me. Sure it's angry and aggressive, but it wasn't all negative, there's a sense of self-agency, 'The Establishment' has let us down so we gotta take things into our own hands. Regardless of what it has actually accomplished, I like that kind of grassroots energy, that - dare I say it - sense of empowerment of the masses.

Grunge otoh (which can be partially traced back to punk) was incredibly self-defeating, which probably explains why it didn't last too long, and didn't seem to have as wide-reaching of an appeal as some of the other movements. And it seems like everyone was pretty sick of being depressed by the late '90s-'00s, where we started to see this wave of mindless superficial happy poppy drivel as a reaction to that. I grew up during this period and it was fantastic, we hardly felt a blip of the doom&gloom that preceded us.

What are these studies you speak of? I'm curious. Do you have a link?
The problem with "carroting" instead of quoting or mentioning is that I'm not notified. I need to remember to check for responses in a thread.

It's fine to quote me if you wish - I don't think I'll ever have a need to delete these comments between us because they're pretty innocuous.

Yeah, punk rock is supposed to be empowering, about being against The Establishment. I actually learned not long ago that there was this brief punk rock era in the late 70s-early 80s in my city. Even though it seemed they stressed some level of equality - I could still feel the racism. There was even one punk rocker who sang about something that seemed very racist to me - though I can't remember exactly what it is now.

There's some doom-and-gloom crossover in punk rock. Joy Division is super doom and gloom - the front man even committed suicide at his peak - the ultimate marker of doom and gloom and worship after his death. Nirvana was huge, but became much larger than life, and much more romanticized, after Cobain committed suicide.

Synth pop - Depeche Mode was a big doom and gloom one. Also influenced by punk rock. I'm very jaded about all types of rock/pop, but I still LOVE Depeche Mode in the most visceral way.

I think grunge lives on. I'm always surprised to see young people, like teens, worshipping Nirvana.

I'm depressed at heart because I was a teen when Nirvana/grunge/Smashing Pumpkins were big. We tend to be stuck in our teens/20s - whatever the vibe/zeitgeist was at the time.

Interesting you have such an in-depth understanding of all these rock movement/genres, and various counterculture/New Agey subcultures.

I Googled briefly and couldn't find the studies that showed gratitude made people feel worse - but if I Googled more, I might find them. Here's 2 articles saying gratitude doesn't help:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...ling-gratitude
https://www.time-to-change.org.uk/bl...on-be-grateful

In my own experience, doing gratitude exercises just made me feel worse, with a melancholy pain in my chest. I knew I was lying to myself when I was doing gratitude exercises - because I truly don't have anything in my life, and I suffer much more than others.
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post #59 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2019, 01:26 PM
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Whoa permanently banned ... did I miss something?

My impression is that punk isn't meant to be very cerebral and/or self-aware. Whatever angry aggressive impulse comes to mind, let it out, man. And some of those ideas will happen to be unsavory and perhaps even racist. That's alright though, punk rockers are only human and Art isn't meant to be a moral lesson. In fact people seem to shxt on stuff that have a clear proselytic message.

Came across this article the other day in defense of 'nasty art' - and I guess it applies equally well to things like the doomer/gloomer subcultures. The point is that when a piece of art makes us uncomfortable, instead of dismissing or rejecting it based on instinctual repulsion, we could benefit from looking at the reasons why and what this tells us about our value judgments. I'll admit it may be too much work, though, and only for the hardcore geeks.

I have a rough, very rough theory that the punk movement brought identity politics into the spotlight, and throughout the '80s people began to focus more on individuality and personal identity, culminating in '90s grunge - which was basically punk rock but turned inwards. In that sense it feels a bit decadent/bourgeois to me. No disrespect, I still enjoy it aesthetically in small doses, but that's about it.

Part of it is that I grew up in Asia and, at least where I was, it didn't leave much of a legacy. What I felt more at the time were the remnants of Britpop (late London Suede, Blur; early Coldplay), which as I recall some of those personalities have come right out and proclaimed themselves as the 'anti-grunge'. Then we moved - close to Seattle no less - and suddenly grunge was getting a lot more airplay.

As far as i can see, a whole generation above a certain age still feels nostalgic about it, and then there's the subportion of kids who are all like "I'm only 14 but Nirvana and SmashPump are my fave bands I was born in the wrong decade!!!!1!11". But outside of that everyone has moved on, I feel.

("I'm 14 but I love Baroque music. I wish I was born a few centuries earlier in the 1500s on a serf farm and that Bach and Hđl were my feudal lords and masters!!!!1!!11!3.14")

EDM seems to be the defining sound of the current era. I don't get it. \_(ツ)_/

Anyway. I could sit here all day and drone on and on about the evolution of subcultures and music and whatnot. Feel a bit like Grampa from The Simpsons, lol. "Back in my day ... [falls asleep, loud snore]..."
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post #60 of 64 (permalink) Old 06-22-2019, 03:28 PM
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