Does this help with discovering your identity? - Social Anxiety Forum
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-15-2019, 07:51 PM Thread Starter
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Does this help with discovering your identity?


In no way do I intend to preach anything or intrude on your beliefs. But does this video help anyone with discovering their identity? The video has both faith based knowledge but a whole bunch of stuff on psychology as the guy was a psychology student. I didn't know what category to put this in because it has a blend of both worlds.



A lot of the content is aged over 1400 years ago.


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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-15-2019, 08:14 PM
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My identity is pretty fluid, it changes often and is usually determined by others. I have no real interest in it, to be honest, identity to me is a foolish concept. I have as many identities, as there are people who know of me, and as I have aged I have seen just how useless it is to try to control it. Ultimately, I think identity is foolish, it is a pursuit people chase after their entire lives, yet have absolutely no control over. People can labor after an identity for years, only to have it stripped away in seconds.

Imagine, if you will if the whole of the world beside you were to vanish. Who would you be then? What would your identity be? With no one there to identify you, would such a concept even matter anymore? I for one, am not in search of myself, I don't need to define myself. Others do it for me, and for the most part, I no longer care about trying to correct them.

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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-15-2019, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
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Identity is fluid in one sense. But my grounding is rooted in one thing. Every living creature is like that if you notice. Every plant is in the ground for example. But above ground they sway whether in a turbulent manner in a storm or a gentle manner in a time of ease. But the grounding is unwavering and stable otherwise they are uprooted and have no stability and fly with the wind whatever direction into the unknown returning into that which all other plants whether grounded or not will eventually become anyway.


But there was a difference. One was connected. One was loose like a camel in a desert going no where fast. We all run out of fuel but the end was the same.


One was connected and fulfilled it's purpose.



Identity is in the heart.


I identify as Muslim. One that submits to Allah the creator of the heavens and the earth.


If the whole world were to vanish with no one to identify you. You would be identified as a creation. Because you didn't create yourself.


Your creator did.


And you weren't here first.



And he never sleeps.


Has always been here and always will be.
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-15-2019, 11:53 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Zonebox.


Please have a read of my post here:


https://www.socialanxietysupport.com...post1093838069


You might find what I have to say interesting.
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-16-2019, 01:05 AM
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Didn't watch the video, but here's my take.

My identity is that which I understand myself to be. Finding your identity is really just about self-awareness -- knowing what you actually think and feel about things and the experiences you've had, which generally requires some kind of labeling. Your identity can change from moment to moment. Other people will have different thoughts and feelings about you, so your identity will vary from person to person.

When I say I'm X or Y, I'm really just communicating to other people aspects of my own experience that are more or less stable so that they have an easier time understanding my behavior. Most people seem to have a really strong need to be seen, loved, and accepted as they actually are. One way to facilitate that process is to share your identity with others verbally. But it's always best if other people can discern it themselves and accurately mirror how you see yourself.

If people fail to acknowledge your existence, or they fail to see you the way you see yourself, or they reject what you communicate about yourself, it can lead to emotional distress and negative mental health outcomes. One of the jobs of a therapist is to accurately mirror and affirm a patient's experience of themselves. That alone can have therapeutic value, which is why many people say that therapy helps them, even if it doesn't produce outward changes in their lives. It's also why many people say that therapy is useless, or doesn't help them, or only made them feel worse: because their therapist has failed to really see, understand, or affirm them. (Coping strategies like CBT, etc., are secondary to the therapeutic relationship.)

Identity politics is really about having minority experiences acknowledged and validated by a wider culture. (Psychological needs at a group level.)

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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-16-2019, 01:57 AM
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I really think that identity should be a fluid thing. I first began to discover my own identity in my 20's when I finally dared to "stray" from my parents' oppressive, fundamentalist religion -- when I rejected the "identity" that had been forced upon me my entire childhood. And I've been continually discovering myself ever since! I have a pretty solid foundation -- I know who I am and what I want -- but I'm always open to change, to the possibility that I'm wrong about things. And I think that's the main difference between me and the majority of religious people.

I only made it through the first few minutes of the video, but there's nothing new here. I take issue with the suggestion that everything good in life is solely due to some god's benevolence, and that we are "deluded" into thinking "this is because of [our] own doing, or [our] own accomplishments, or [our] own capabilities." How short can you possibly sell yourself? Why does everything always have to be some mystical entity's doing -- why can't people just take responsibility for their thoughts and actions, good and bad?

And how can you possibly discover YOUR OWN IDENTITY while being told that you can't do anything on your own, that you're worthless and nothing without Allah? How can you not see how manipulative this whole thing is? And the fact that this kind of thing has been continually happening for millennia just adds to the ridiculousness of it all. I just can't even... SMH.

"Churches ... appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.." -Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-16-2019, 02:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truant View Post
Finding your identity is really just about self-awareness -- knowing what you actually think and feel about things and the experiences you've had
I really like this. In my experience, the hardest part about developing self-awareness has been realizing that I don't think or feel the way that the majority seem to, and having to reconcile that difference.

"Churches ... appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.." -Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-16-2019, 02:53 AM
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I didn't watch the video either - no offence but if it's faith-based I have no interest in it.

I think I have a fairly strong sense of who I am - I think I probably should do by now, I've been here for quite a while. I agree with a few of the others that our sense of ourselves changes - I'd say that's to be expected, as we get older and experience different things.

To a certain extent I sort of see identity linked to our priorities. Since my son was born I've seen myself as a father first - everything else came second, and most things that happened before that seemed pretty silly in comparison.

I guess I still see myself as part of my family - a mediocre husband at best, but not a bad father.
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-16-2019, 03:00 AM
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I feel I'm just operating this meat suit for a while, like my soul is riding a bike & I got scared so decided to ride into the desert through a cactus patch.






And all our yesterdays have lighted fools the way to dusty death
Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow,
A poor player that strut's and fret's his hour upon the stage and is heard no more,
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
- Macbeth
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-16-2019, 03:09 AM
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I think people mean a couple of different things when they use the term the first is a kind of tribal and/or defensive thing and the other is more of an affinity for something and then the two can also be mixed together.

OK so I guess based on your third post you want to talk about spirituality. I'm loosely a non-theistic Luciferian with an interest in occult stuff. Or this sort of thing:


I'm not really a fan of Islam because I don't find it inspiring more the opposite (Emperor of Mankind isn't my aesthetic.) I prefer to take apart and subvert various things from the Bible and mix them up with Norse, Greek/Roman, and Jewish and sometimes other mythological stories/characters. But really most of the work has already been done for me.

I like connecting all the similar characters/themes especially Lilith and Angrbođa and Satan/Samael and Loki. Persephone, Ereshkigal and Hel, Venus and Inanna and Lucifer, Sophia and Lucifer. I also like their ambiguity. Because they're all kind of split between living and dead, serpent and Human, male and female or good and evil etc.
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-16-2019, 08:32 AM
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Identity is really an interesting subject, but I do find identities create a weakness in people. It makes it easy to manipulate others who strongly hold on to an identity. If one does not have strong ties to identity it is much less likely that they will try to defend that sense of identity.

For example, you are a Muslim, such an identity is important to you. Other Muslims can use that identity to manipulate you, just as Christians use other people's identity to manipulate them. I saw this quite often, when I was younger. A true Christian does such and such, a true Christian would never do such and such. It is not limited to just religions either. A true conservative would do such and such, a true liberal would do such and such.

From my vantage point, I really don't want an identity. I get one, regardless, but I am not so quick to defend the identity other people give me. It makes living so much easier, and it also makes it a lot harder for people to try to manipulate you. I noticed yesterday when buying my car, the car salesmen even tried to play the identity game, my wife was there with me, and he used the gender roles bit, trying to appeal to my sense of masculinity. I did not fall for it, another salesman tried to appeal to my wife's feminity through safety plans, and failed as well. I see these kind of interactions all of the time.

I think a lot of what identity does, is make people feel like they belong to a group. In a literal sense, they are selling themselves, and do "belong" to that group. But then, I'm a really weird person, that thinks very weird things.

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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-16-2019, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
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I do find identities create a weakness in people. It makes it easy to manipulate others who strongly hold on to an identity. If one does not have strong ties to identity it is much less likely that they will try to defend that sense of identity.

...

I think a lot of what identity does, is make people feel like they belong to a group. In a literal sense, they are selling themselves, and do "belong" to that group. But then, I'm a really weird person, that thinks very weird things.
Identification can create all sorts of problems. The kind of manipulation you're talking about is incredibly common. Proselytization depends on the tendency people have to manipulate themselves into conforming to a label once they adopt it. People seem to feel compelled to justify the labels they adopt, so they start to invest in the identity by changing their behaviors and retconning their past. That's how you get social control.

But I don't think you can avoid identification. Identification is about more than joining groups; it's also about stating facts (or attempts to state facts). Every time you make "I am a ..." statements (like the part I highlighted in your post) you're verbalizing an aspect of your identity. You see yourself as a weird person, and this self-understanding impacts your behavior. You can turn "weird person" into a defensive structure ("don't be surprised by the crazy things I say, I'm a weird person"), a guiding principle ("being weird is good, so let's explore some other alternative ways to think and act"), and a narrative structure ("I've always been a weird person").

I don't think there's any way to avoid this, nor do I think it's bad. Identifying with your role as a father can make you a better father. The problem isn't identification; the problem comes from allowing an identification to lead to harm, either to yourself or another, or to the erosion of your intellectual integrity.

I think the important thing is to be aware that identities have this impact on how we think and behave and to become conscious of the process so that we're guiding it and not acting blindly or being manipulated by others. (Like how you noticed the attempt at manipulation by the car salesman.) As long as you're aware of the process, you can disavow an identity when you notice that it's having a harmful impact.

Ofc, many people are so invested in their identities that they'd rather be corrupted by them than relinquish them.

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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-16-2019, 01:18 PM
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I don't identify very much with identity and am not particularly interested in being self aware. Being honest and expressing myself in the moment is the goal. I really don't know what I am but I do know what I want to do most of the time. Of course I guess despite myself I do feel like I have an identity.

...you gotta keep the goal in mind, develop tunnel vision to a certain extent. it's hard, and it's not for everyone.

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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-16-2019, 03:08 PM
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For me it's all tied up in the roles we play in our lives. I don't think most people really think about this sort of thing very much until there's a major change in their life. Like a divorce, or maybe they lose a lot of money or they lose their job. All of a sudden they're confronted with this massive change in their lives and they're left wondering who they actually are now.

I've been through a similar thing over the last few years with having to leave my wife's house. Plus my son left home and has a life of his own. So I'm left wondering what it is I do now. That scared the hell out of me for a while - it really shook me, because I'd been playing that role for such a long time. But now it's quite interesting because I'm starting to see myself as separate from my family again - it actually opens up a range of different possibilities. It's scary at first though.
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-16-2019, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truant View Post
Identification can create all sorts of problems. The kind of manipulation you're talking about is incredibly common. Proselytization depends on the tendency people have to manipulate themselves into conforming to a label once they adopt it. People seem to feel compelled to justify the labels they adopt, so they start to invest in the identity by changing their behaviors and retconning their past. That's how you get social control.

But I don't think you can avoid identification. Identification is about more than joining groups; it's also about stating facts (or attempts to state facts). Every time you make "I am a ..." statements (like the part I highlighted in your post) you're verbalizing an aspect of your identity. You see yourself as a weird person, and this self-understanding impacts your behavior. You can turn "weird person" into a defensive structure ("don't be surprised by the crazy things I say, I'm a weird person"), a guiding principle ("being weird is good, so let's explore some other alternative ways to think and act"), and a narrative structure ("I've always been a weird person").

I don't think there's any way to avoid this, nor do I think it's bad. Identifying with your role as a father can make you a better father. The problem isn't identification; the problem comes from allowing an identification to lead to harm, either to yourself or another, or to the erosion of your intellectual integrity.

I think the important thing is to be aware that identities have this impact on how we think and behave and to become conscious of the process so that we're guiding it and not acting blindly or being manipulated by others. (Like how you noticed the attempt at manipulation by the car salesman.) As long as you're aware of the process, you can disavow an identity when you notice that it's having a harmful impact.

Ofc, many people are so invested in their identities that they'd rather be corrupted by them than relinquish them.
I can avoid identity! I tells ya, I'm on a mission here To be honest, identity has always baffled me Traunt, even as a kid it confused me. I don't hold on to my own identity with very much vigor, I might be weird, but it is not really an identity that I hold on to or embrace. I don't have that drive to have an identity, I see it as mostly worthless. I think a large part of not having that drive is due to not wanting to interact with others.

I suppose that all could be part of an identity, a desire not to be stuck in an identity. See, look what you did to me now!

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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 02:27 PM
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Somewhat. Religion can be used as a source of identity simply because you were born into it or simply something you relate to based on pure curiosity or "soul searching." If you were born into it, there isn't much "discovering" in the first place aside from it besides further strengthening and building upon that identity.

However, one's identity is also strongly shaped by things such as good and bad life experiences, people, and major events. Unlike soul searching or being born into a certain identity, experiences and people that shape our identity tend to happen based on factors that are not in our control. There's a major difference.

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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 04:55 PM
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Oh joy, we have a Muslim missionary on the forums.
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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Persephone The Dread View Post
I think people mean a couple of different things when they use the term the first is a kind of tribal and/or defensive thing and the other is more of an affinity for something and then the two can also be mixed together.

OK so I guess based on your third post you want to talk about spirituality. I'm loosely a non-theistic Luciferian with an interest in occult stuff. Or this sort of thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHxWE-S3nD8

I'm not really a fan of Islam because I don't find it inspiring more the opposite (Emperor of Mankind isn't my aesthetic.) I prefer to take apart and subvert various things from the Bible and mix them up with Norse, Greek/Roman, and Jewish and sometimes other mythological stories/characters. But really most of the work has already been done for me.

I like connecting all the similar characters/themes especially Lilith and Angrbođa and Satan/Samael and Loki. Persephone, Ereshkigal and Hel, Venus and Inanna and Lucifer, Sophia and Lucifer. I also like their ambiguity. Because they're all kind of split between living and dead, serpent and Human, male and female or good and evil etc.

i didn't really understand the youtube. not sure what he's talking about. plus i don't know much about art or magic. i like his beard though, its both artful and possibly magical.


never heard of luciferian. will google in a moment. but i think you research this stuff a lot and its probably a bit beyond me.


but idk i like the aesthetic of vulnerable but still kind of strong men, which is a theme in a bunch of David Cronenberg's movies. there's something about it that interests me.

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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 10:31 PM
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i didn't really understand the youtube. not sure what he's talking about. plus i don't know much about art or magic. i like his beard though, its both artful and possibly magical.


never heard of luciferian. will google in a moment. but i think you research this stuff a lot and its probably a bit beyond me.


but idk i like the aesthetic of vulnerable but still kind of strong men, which is a theme in a bunch of David Cronenberg's movies. there's something about it that interests me.
Eh I'm not that familiar with that stuff Luciferian kind of works as a vague descriptor though. I don't like to adopt concrete labels though for this kind of thing, and my interest in a lot of stuff is more academic or for fun. With the video I just like his takes on magic/advertising and art but that probably wasn't the best one to link I just found it quickly. I don't see it a spiritual thing more of a psychological thing.

I actually haven't seen any Cronenberg films, but I did read about The Fly film before (I do that with many films I don't watch.)

Yes he has a very distinctive appearance often wears a lot of rings and stuff too. I created a fictional character for a story I was writing several years ago that's appearance was partly inspired by him and partly Aubrey de Grey.
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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-18-2019, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Persephone The Dread View Post
Eh I'm not that familiar with that stuff Luciferian kind of works as a vague descriptor though. I don't like to adopt concrete labels though for this kind of thing, and my interest in a lot of stuff is more academic or for fun. With the video I just like his takes on magic/advertising and art but that probably wasn't the best one to link I just found it quickly. I don't see it a spiritual thing more of a psychological thing.

I actually haven't seen any Cronenberg films, but I did read about The Fly film before (I do that with many films I don't watch.)

Yes he has a very distinctive appearance often wears a lot of rings and stuff too. I created a fictional character for a story I was writing several years ago that's appearance was partly inspired by him and partly Aubrey de Grey.
yeah everyone says the fly. I never watch that one though. I should watch it again. but idk if it has the same kind of emotional male characters, its more plain scifi/body horror? I dont remember.

once I recommended cronenberg to someone at meetup. I think she watched Naked Lunch first and I think she thought it was ok just weird. but then she watched Crash and hated it and it was a bit awkward between us. so I told her maybe she just doesn't get movies with a sexual theme and recommended Nymphomaniac also (I mean theres some interesting themes and lines in Crash but all she saw was a porno movie). maybe it's a bit of a faux pas to recommend sexual movies to randoms from meetup because I never saw her again. so anyway I probably shouldn't recommend those movies to people lol

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