Are Luck and Fate Real? - Social Anxiety Forum
 
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 03:42 PM Thread Starter
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Are Luck and Fate Real?


A lot of people out there firmly believe that everyone makes their own fate. And that luck is mere superstition. “One reaps what one sows” they say, and I would agree to an extent...

I have also noticed that the same people who spout and vocalize these beliefs are almost always in a good position. Meaning, that they have accomplished something and can look back and attribute their success to “hard work”.

But that justification falls apart by a matter of simple observation. As one can easily or recall cases of people who worked just as as hard if not harder and met less fortunate ends. At the same time these people don’t take into consideration the various external factors that could have easily derailed their goal (eg: car crash, Miss-placement of an important document, death, bad weather, etc).

I recall a situation from when I was in University where I had taken an important test. I studied hard , learned the material and took the test. I felt pretty comfortable about my answers and in my mind I knew that I passed with flying colors . To my dismay I received 0 credit. Upon speaking with my professor I was informed that I never showed up for the exam. I doubt it to this day since the first thing I always did was write my name on the tests. Nonetheless , I asked if there were any solved tests without a name and was informed that there were none. It became quite clear that that either the professor and her assistant had lost my test, or that another student wrote his or her name over mine. I was distraught... the professor then offered me to take a much harder make -up test with less time ( as if it wasn’t her fault that my test was lost ). In her mind she was doing an exceptional exception for me. To top it off I had to take it while being directly observed and while a section of the building was under construction ( loud noises and shouting/high stress factors for me). I ended up passing, but my test results were never as good as my original test had it not mysteriously vanished. Even though I overcame the difficulties I cannot help and wonder why everything stacked against me with no direct fault of my own. That showed me that my own abilities are nothing if I am not given the appropriate medium to shine.

Are luck and fate real? Do they serve a higher purpose?

I recall the case of this woman from the church that I used to attend with my mother when I was 13 and still pretty religious. This woman always attended church with her husband and her two sons. One was in his late teens while the other boy was around my age. One Sunday we were informed by the priest that a horrible accident had occurred during which this woman ‘s husband and older son perished. Everyone was in shock and in awe .Afterall this family was active in the community and was well liked. Everyone came together and tried their best to support the remaining family members. And against all odds they seemed to get back on their feet. Then about a year later we were informed by the priest that the youngest son had perished in yet another car accident . This time he was with a group of friends and had been the only fatality.

The priest asked us to pray for her and proceeded to jump through all kinds of mental and theological hoops to justify this horrid situation. None of the explanations seemed logically plausible nor spiritually fulfilling. I never saw this woman again...

So luck it seems, at least to me, has no metaphysical value nor does it seem to serve higher purpose. But it is still a very real part of the human experience. It is there.

Luck cannot be justified or explained outside of the circumstances and the outcome themselves. It would be like trying to find a higher reason as to why the pulmonary system in takes O2 and expels CO2 and not vice-versa.

What do you make of luck and fate?

"Existence well what does it matter?
I exist on the best terms I can
The past is now part of my future,
The present is well out of hand"

― Ian Curtis
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 04:12 PM
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I have looked at it from different points of view, and even though they all make sense to me, I don't feel like there is any purpose to it, simply cause and effect, or survival of the fittest if you prefer.

When I had a near death experience, I saw it like a heroin addict might when they shoot dope in their veins - that it doesn't even matter, but finally makes sense why we all keep killing each other just to stay alive, whether it be on accident when we are driving to a job that is more important to us than that little risk factor of killing someone with your car, or if it's consciously at the point of a gun. It's all the same from up there (high on near death dope or something, I didn't quite die, but it sounds like how they say God looks at it too. Kind of a dick if you ask me since he isn't the one suffering.).

As for luck though, I always try to stack the odds in my favor (without breaking too many rules or that comes back on you too), which is creating your own luck. It's all math to me, I guess. An if then statement with a bunch of external variables to watch out for as well.


I even carry a lucky silver dollar in my wallet, but that is more of a psychological hack because it makes me feel a little safer, which gives me a little more confidence, which could help in many tough situations. So in a way it really does improve my odds in life by carrying it even if I look at it differently.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 04:38 PM
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I don't believe in fate or destiny. But luck is very much real.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 05:29 PM
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"you make your own luck" - Boomer
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-12-2020, 06:08 PM
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-13-2020, 12:47 AM
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Everything is luck. But then, sometimes, my luck is so curiously awful I can't help but feel the universe is conspiring against me. So maybe there is a higher power. If there is, it sure does hate me.

The only thing better than money is more money.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-13-2020, 02:02 AM
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Yes, but I think your fate isn't strictly fixed & everyone starts out with different amounts of luck, karma also has a part in it.

I think you're supposed to experience certain things in your current life like a "fate quota" & luck & karma guide you towards it, but traumatic events can throw you off course & you might never get back again.

It's like those open world sandbox games you have objectives & goals but you can also get sidetracked & wander around & maybe get lost in a radioactive sea full of scary monsters.






And all our yesterdays have lighted fools the way to dusty death
Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow,
A poor player that strut's and fret's his hour upon the stage and is heard no more,
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
- Macbeth
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-13-2020, 03:08 AM
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-13-2020, 03:22 AM
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"Fate" is a little more nebulous of a concept than "luck". And "fate" has more mystical connotations. I like to think of the future this way. Take everything that you know and everything you don't know and throw it in a giant blender. Then you place your desired outcome in a (somewhat) resilient bubble of hope and hit start.

The fact that you have a desired outcome in mind doesn't mean that's what's going to happen (because everything that is possible is all around you and you have no idea what's gonna hit you at any given time). But perhaps makes it at least somewhat more likely if you are able to hang onto it and try to stay oriented and focused on it while that cyclone of randomness is swirling around you.

People who believe hard work pays off have to because otherwise, it wouldn't make sense to them why they made it and a million other people didn't. There must be something special about them. But....how do we know there isn't? Maybe there is. But probably not.

/WYSD
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-13-2020, 08:40 AM
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i dont know if luck and fate are real, but i can imagine luck maybe like being born witth a supreme talent in the right family

luck = when your talent is your passion, so when you grow up you make a living out of it, make a shtload of money/fame etc. like lionel messi



luck = being born healthy with no mental illness,no depression, no chemical imbalance in the brain, etc

luck is when your job is doing the thing you love most in life

or luck = being born smart /blessed with good genetics,etc..

maybe luck is being loved. luck = meeting someone who loves you more than themselves


hard work is more like a term the rich came up with to continue with manipulating the less fortunate people. i mean no one really works harder than poor pple
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-13-2020, 09:30 AM
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Hard work - good luck = hard work
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-13-2020, 09:38 AM
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Actually when you think about it, it takes luck for someone to give you the opportunity to work hard.
Not like a person can just show up in a business and say "alright I'm here to work hard!" They would be escorted right out.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-13-2020, 09:42 AM
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determinism. cant change what's gonna happen. responsibility doesnt really matter at a spiritual level, because everything is cause and effect. if you had been a different person you would get a different result. but you are not, cannot. genetically traits may exist because they are necessary under specific conditions which may never arise for the individual who currently has them.

also good and bad are uncertain, subjective, etc.

which is why acceptance is a good thing. cant control anything. just accept. unless you're someone who cant accept things. that's not going to be good. but good and bad are uncertain lol. everything is a guess and it's not even you who gets to make the guess, but you will be held accountable.

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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-13-2020, 02:07 PM
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You will never accomplish that which you never try because you think it's not possible. Oftentimes we don't want to accept what's possible because trying is simply too hard.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-13-2020, 04:06 PM
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There is an extent where the person either has the situation(s) make or break them. Looking it at face value is a bit superficial, because other factors (psychological and physiological) give people their breaking point to greater or less extent. Learned helplessness can be taught through a series of unfortunate events; but this also has a way of perspective where either the person themselves and/or other individuals justify as to why they are in that learned helplessness. This is where it irks me when others try to say about certain situations would give and justify an outcome and mentality, enabling the fate sooner rather than later.

Luck, on the other hand, would make the fate of a person as a presumed outcome for the better or worse. The term luck is seen in a positive function, which people who come from well-off families and/or perseverance even if the person started off in a less fortunate circumstance are seen to possess it.

It's both a matter of perspective and an illusion. It's real if experience and thinking makes the person come to the conclusion as to where their life ultimately leads to (which I think is part of human nature since we have the need to control - even by concluding that they have no control, ironically.) But illusion can also make people find themselves with the glass is half full if they think that they've stepped a level above from where they were prior. Determinism would have luck and fate subconsciously a reality since our lives would have a set path due to where we start, both with the environmental and genetic lottery and that's that.

In the end, we have to be careful on how we view a case. Having extremes on both sides will set up failure.
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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-15-2020, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aqwsderf View Post
I don't believe in fate or destiny. But luck is very much real.
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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 02-16-2020, 02:10 AM
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I don't think much about luck as it implies a sense of some random force that begets a favourable result for whoever is on the receiving end. I believe that we simply exist in environments within which things are either more likely or less likely to happen, and our own personal actions within the parameters or boundaries of those situations can increase the likelihood of good things coming to fruition.

Conversely, if you happen to find yourself in a poor environment or set of circumstances where desirable things are less likely to happen, then there is an obvious limit within which your own actions influence any given outcome.

In saying all that, my ancestors followed an idea known as 'wyrd', which is a pre-Christian germanic idea that sees events, people and causes all tied together by these invisible tendrils. I do have an instinctive feeling towards the credence of such an idea. It's not as if I necesserily subscribe by proxy to any notion that anything out of one's control is just random, however, there's no real way for me to justify or explain it away at the rational level that satisfies the mind. I suppose you can start telling stories about entirely coincidental things occuring but then if you want to put it down as merely coincidence or good luck every time and nothing more then no further explanation is ever required.

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