Always the friend never the lover. - Social Anxiety Forum
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post #1 of 124 (permalink) Old 12-12-2017, 08:12 PM Thread Starter
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Always the friend never the lover.


I am 34 years old and I am still a virgin because of my inhability to be anything more than a friend. I don't know how that ever happened but it seems like I am always friend zoned by women. Maybe because I am a genuinely nice person and I enjoy doing nice things for others. My SA makes it difficult for me to talk to people, and I am fully aware of my social awkward tendencies, and I am working on them. Talking to women ( and people in general) is hard for me, but I have gotten better over the years, I have more friends now, but that is as far as it goes.

While I do have female friends, most of whom are now happily married with children, the ones that aren't just don't seem interested even when I "show them signs" eg extensive touching, awkward attempts at flirting, and showering with compliments just to name a few. I would just come out and tell them but I am extremely sensitive and I get really emotional. Not to mention my SA makes the words get caught in my throat. Plus I don't want to jeperdize the friendship.

I just don't know what to do at this point. I could change my entire personality and be a A hole to everyone but that would make me feel bad. I like being nice but it seems like a double edged sword. My female friends really care about me as a friend but nothing more.

All of my life I have only wanted to love and be loved in return. You can only take so much rejection and failure though before you just break. Maybe I am the problem. Maybe I am not good enough. I wil keep trying and hope that I am wrong, but if the universe has taught me anything over the years it's that I make a great friend. That is, perhaps all I will ever be to anyone I guess it is better than nothing, but it doesn't feel like it.

"You're going to fail a lot. Sometimes you'll fail over and over again, but you have to keep trying every time. You can't give up just because there is a chance that you might fail." - Dante Basco
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post #2 of 124 (permalink) Old 12-12-2017, 08:19 PM
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I know the feeling too, hope you can somewhat learn how to let women know you can also be a lover, not just a friend.
Good luck with it.

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post #3 of 124 (permalink) Old 12-12-2017, 08:25 PM
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Congrats on being able to make so many friends! That's a rare gift.

There are many possible explanations for your problem, and nobody on a forum can guess which is the case for you. Fortunately, you have friends -- and those are the people who can help you identify the problem(s) and how to fix it. Ask a few of them (preferably married ones so it doesn't seem like you're expecting something from her) what they've observed and can suggest. But keep an open mind and realize that the preferences of one or a few women aren't necessarily representative of all, and that you don't need to attract most women (just one, really well).

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post #4 of 124 (permalink) Old 12-12-2017, 08:31 PM
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I'm a nice guy too and I think there's really no escape. You can continue being the nice guy and pray you will be one of the few nice guys that managed to get a gf or you could start acting more like an a**hole and increase your chances with women. Wish you good luck
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post #5 of 124 (permalink) Old 12-12-2017, 11:52 PM
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Sometimes you really have to go all out in order to find a boyfriend/girlfriend. I never found anyone from just going about my daily life of work/school, shopping, supermarket, etc. I'd be a virgin to this day if I hadn't gone out to bars or done online dating.
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post #6 of 124 (permalink) Old 12-13-2017, 05:15 AM Thread Starter
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Congrats on being able to make so many friends! That's a rare gift.

There are many possible explanations for your problem, and nobody on a forum can guess which is the case for you. Fortunately, you have friends -- and those are the people who can help you identify the problem(s) and how to fix it. Ask a few of them (preferably married ones so it doesn't seem like you're expecting something from her) what they've observed and can suggest. But keep an open mind and realize that the preferences of one or a few women aren't necessarily representative of all, and that you don't need to attract most women (just one, really well).

I may have made it out to be better than it is. While I have made more friends over the years, most of whom are males. Those 7 or so female friends, of which only about 3 of whom I am attracted to, are mostly friends via facebook. I don't really talk to them outside of there much. That said, I thank you for your advise and will definitely try it out. Hopefully I don't chicken out.

"You're going to fail a lot. Sometimes you'll fail over and over again, but you have to keep trying every time. You can't give up just because there is a chance that you might fail." - Dante Basco
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post #7 of 124 (permalink) Old 12-13-2017, 05:21 AM Thread Starter
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Sometimes you really have to go all out in order to find a boyfriend/girlfriend. I never found anyone from just going about my daily life of work/school, shopping, supermarket, etc. I'd be a virgin to this day if I hadn't gone out to bars or done online dating.

Thanks. I do go out, though probably not as often as I should anymore. My SA makes it hard for me to make friends quickly though. I usually have to spend hours if not days, and in some cases years, before I consider them friends. Often I find that when I do go out I come home feeling worse for even having tried. I know I shouldn't and that I should feel proud I gave it my all, but I just don't. I don't have the energy for it anymore. I have tried online dating and found that, at least in my area, there were not a lot of options available and I just didn't feel that it was worth it for the amount of money I was paying. I am currently looking at Tinder and some of the other free ones now. Hopefully something good will come of them.

"You're going to fail a lot. Sometimes you'll fail over and over again, but you have to keep trying every time. You can't give up just because there is a chance that you might fail." - Dante Basco
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post #8 of 124 (permalink) Old 12-13-2017, 03:02 PM
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I may have made it out to be better than it is. While I have made more friends over the years, most of whom are males. Those 7 or so female friends, of which only about 3 of whom I am attracted to, are mostly friends via facebook. I don't really talk to them outside of there much. That said, I thank you for your advise and will definitely try it out. Hopefully I don't chicken out.
Then it might just be a numbers problem. Hardly anybody dates one of the first 3 desirable people who they become facebook friends with. They befriend dozens before they find one whose circumstances and goals and personality and so forth are compatible, and they deepen the friendship by hanging out in person.

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post #9 of 124 (permalink) Old 12-13-2017, 03:39 PM
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I am 34 years old and I am still a virgin because of my inhability to be anything more than a friend. I don't know how that ever happened but it seems like I am always friend zoned by women. Maybe because I am a genuinely nice person and I enjoy doing nice things for others. My SA makes it difficult for me to talk to people, and I am fully aware of my social awkward tendencies, and I am working on them. Talking to women ( and people in general) is hard for me, but I have gotten better over the years, I have more friends now, but that is as far as it goes.

While I do have female friends, most of whom are now happily married with children, the ones that aren't just don't seem interested even when I "show them signs" eg extensive touching, awkward attempts at flirting, and showering with compliments just to name a few. I would just come out and tell them but I am extremely sensitive and I get really emotional. Not to mention my SA makes the words get caught in my throat. Plus I don't want to jeperdize the friendship.

I just don't know what to do at this point. I could change my entire personality and be a A hole to everyone but that would make me feel bad. I like being nice but it seems like a double edged sword. My female friends really care about me as a friend but nothing more.

All of my life I have only wanted to love and be loved in return. You can only take so much rejection and failure though before you just break. Maybe I am the problem. Maybe I am not good enough. I wil keep trying and hope that I am wrong, but if the universe has taught me anything over the years it's that I make a great friend. That is, perhaps all I will ever be to anyone I guess it is better than nothing, but it doesn't feel like it.

best of luck to you. I'm currently in the midst of exploring the aftermath of some speed dating events. I did two events before I got a "yes" indicator by someone who said she was interested in corresponding with me. Right now I've had one in-person meeting (in a group setting) and email correspondence ongoing for now. I hope to have a one-on-one date soon, hopefully lunch or something simple like that.

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post #10 of 124 (permalink) Old 12-13-2017, 03:47 PM Thread Starter
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Then it might just be a numbers problem. Hardly anybody dates one of the first 3 desirable people who they become facebook friends with. They befriend dozens before they find one whose circumstances and goals and personality and so forth are compatible, and they deepen the friendship by hanging out in person.
I do have at least one female friend like that. I love her and think she is amazing. She has a great personality and I try to spend time with her every chance I get. We have been friends for nearly 10 years. My problem with her though is that I am in the dreaded friend zone. If I knew for a fact I wouldn't lose her as a friend I would totally ask her out.

There is another girl I like in a class I'm taking, and who I have talked to several times, but haven't built up the courage to ask her yet. I agree I need to find more friends like the aforementioned one above, I just can't wait so long to ask.

"You're going to fail a lot. Sometimes you'll fail over and over again, but you have to keep trying every time. You can't give up just because there is a chance that you might fail." - Dante Basco
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post #11 of 124 (permalink) Old 12-13-2017, 03:51 PM Thread Starter
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best of luck to you. I'm currently in the midst of exploring the aftermath of some speed dating events. I did two events before I got a "yes" indicator by someone who said she was interested in corresponding with me. Right now I've had one in-person meeting (in a group setting) and email correspondence ongoing for now. I hope to have a one-on-one date soon, hopefully lunch or something simple like that.
I read your post and I have to say you are an inspiration to me. I hope I can have your courage when it comes to meeting people.

"You're going to fail a lot. Sometimes you'll fail over and over again, but you have to keep trying every time. You can't give up just because there is a chance that you might fail." - Dante Basco
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post #12 of 124 (permalink) Old 12-15-2017, 11:27 AM Thread Starter
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So the aforementioned girl I like, I somehow (and I don't know how I managed it) told her that I had a wet dream about her and she asked what it was about. When I told her (and it wasn't a sexual dream at all, we just kisses... In the dream) I had expected her to be grosses out, but later when I called her she said she thought it was funny.

I have also started touching her more, again, not sexually, but lovingly, and often. I know she doesn't feel the same way about me, but I am hopeful. Still can't build up the courage to tell her how I feel yet, but I feel like telling her about the dream was a start.

"You're going to fail a lot. Sometimes you'll fail over and over again, but you have to keep trying every time. You can't give up just because there is a chance that you might fail." - Dante Basco
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post #13 of 124 (permalink) Old 12-15-2017, 08:07 PM
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All of my life I have only wanted to love and be loved in return. You can only take so much rejection and failure though before you just break.
Yep. I know that feeling all too well. For most of my life all I ever dreamed about was being in love. But all I've ever experienced in trying to find it is rejection, pain, and heartbreak. You can only bend something so many times before it breaks and when rejection is the only thing you've ever known you eventually stop trying because you've learned to expect it. Outside of my job I live in total isolation. I don't even try meeting people anymore.
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post #14 of 124 (permalink) Old 12-16-2017, 05:52 AM Thread Starter
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Yep. I know that feeling all too well. For most of my life all I ever dreamed about was being in love. But all I've ever experienced in trying to find it is rejection, pain, and heartbreak. You can only bend something so many times before it breaks and when rejection is the only thing you've ever known you eventually stop trying because you've learned to expect it. Outside of my job I live in total isolation. I don't even try meeting people anymore.
There is a line in a Nirvana song which says "I miss the comfort in being sad." I think it is about being comfortable when you don't try. In other words, if you don't try you won't be disappointed. I am in love with a girl I have known for nearly ten years. We are really close and I am afraid if I tell her I will, once again be rejected. There are times though where I get so hopeful, but then I go on line wondering, should I do it? What I find there are other people who tried and lost a friend. Sure it worked for some, but the majority, it seems, it hasn't. I am so scared that I could potentially lose one of the most amazing people I have ever met. But through all of that, I feel like I have to try. It's a damned if you do damned if you don't scenario. I want to believe that all this rejection serves a greater purpose. That is why, no matter what, I will keep trying, even when it brings unbearable pain.

"You're going to fail a lot. Sometimes you'll fail over and over again, but you have to keep trying every time. You can't give up just because there is a chance that you might fail." - Dante Basco
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post #15 of 124 (permalink) Old 12-16-2017, 06:03 AM
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Self described nice guys are 100% of the time not nice whatsoever, they are manipulative *****holes just after one thing, women don't owe you sex just because you do nice things for them

Also the friend zone does not exist , if a woman isn't attracted to you she isn't attracted to you, get over it and move on,l be happy you can easily make friends, friendships are a valuable thing.
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post #16 of 124 (permalink) Old 12-17-2017, 05:14 AM Thread Starter
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Self described nice guys are 100% of the time not nice whatsoever, they are manipulative *****holes just after one thing, women don't owe you sex just because you do nice things for them

Also the friend zone does not exist , if a woman isn't attracted to you she isn't attracted to you, get over it and move on,l be happy you can easily make friends, friendships are a valuable thing.
It actually makes me happy to help other people, so yes, I enjoy doing it, and there for, I consider myself a nice guy. And I do value my friendships, very much. I would never do anything to ruin that. The point of this was to simply say that I've never been in a romantic relationship with anyone and it sucks. Many of my friends are married now, with children, and they post pictures about how happy they are and how much they love their lives. It makes me feel, happy for them that they are happy, but like crap for me because there is a very real chance I may never get the opportunity to experience that. That is all I'm trying to say. I love my friends, I'm not trying to go have sex with them, and I'm not trying to say they owe it to me.

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post #17 of 124 (permalink) Old 12-17-2017, 05:20 AM Thread Starter
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So, the aforementioned friend, the one who I told I had a wet dream about her, I think she got what I was trying to say because lately she has been telling my that "I love that we're best friends" and that kind of thing. I have to assume that friendship is all that she wants, and, to be honest, I'm okay with that. I don't want to do anything that could jeopardize our friendship. But now I'm once again, just a friend, with yet another woman.


All I want is to love and be loved in return. To have a romantic partner, to experience all the things that lovers do. I finally broke down and joined a an online dating service, a free one this time, maybe it will help, I don't know.

"You're going to fail a lot. Sometimes you'll fail over and over again, but you have to keep trying every time. You can't give up just because there is a chance that you might fail." - Dante Basco
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post #18 of 124 (permalink) Old 12-17-2017, 05:27 AM
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So, the aforementioned friend, the one who I told I had a wet dream about her, I think she got what I was trying to say because lately she has been telling my that "I love that we're best friends" and that kind of thing. I have to assume that friendship is all that she wants, and, to be honest, I'm okay with that. I don't want to do anything that could jeopardize our friendship. But now I'm once again, just a friend, with yet another woman.


All I want is to love and be loved in return. To have a romantic partner, to experience all the things that lovers do. I finally broke down and joined a an online dating service, a free one this time, maybe it will help, I don't know.

Good luck. My friend has found her current boyfriend on online dating site, and they are still together after two years.
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post #19 of 124 (permalink) Old 12-17-2017, 12:37 PM
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Then it might just be a numbers problem. Hardly anybody dates one of the first 3 desirable people who they become facebook friends with. They befriend dozens before they find one whose circumstances and goals and personality and so forth are compatible, and they deepen the friendship by hanging out in person.
Yeah, the only way I ever got a boyfriend is by going to bars every week for many months and talking to hundreds of guys. I wish you could just chat up 3 people and one would become a long-term relationship....
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post #20 of 124 (permalink) Old 12-19-2017, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
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#&<% I just got back from a Christmas party with the friend I like. I wanted to get drunk and tell her how I felt, not to tell her that I am in love with her, but to tell her that I love her none the less. Suffice to say, my SA is so bad now, I can't even do that. She called to make sure I got home okay, which gave me a second opportunity and guess who failed for the infinityth time, THIS GUY.

She even mentioned that she is like her father in that he is very giving to others. That is the way I want to be but because of my SA I come off as being a **** person. She was saying how horrible she looked the entire time we were getting ready, and I knew she was having a panic attack, as she does, but I couldn't even say a nice thing about her. Even if I had, I am sure in her panic she would have come up with some way to throw it back in my face, but **** I just wish I could say sSOMETHING nice, and not mak her think I am a complete loser. I want to be the person her father is, someone who gives without expecting to receive, but I am just a **** person. I don't think I deserve her friendship or her love. **** SA and **** all the **** that comes with it. I want to be normal, like when I was a kid and just didn't give a ****. **** this adult ****!

"You're going to fail a lot. Sometimes you'll fail over and over again, but you have to keep trying every time. You can't give up just because there is a chance that you might fail." - Dante Basco
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