Nardil (phenelzine) [MAOI] - Page 2 - Social Anxiety Forum

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post #21 of 91 (permalink) Old 11-11-2012, 08:06 PM
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Is it relatively easy to get prescribed Nardil?
I really want to try it, because SSRI's and SNRI's didn't do sh*t.
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post #22 of 91 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 02:11 PM
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Generally, Nardil is a last resort, which is totally wrong. I've never felt better than when I was on Nardil. However it pooped out on me and I'm now taking Marplan (isocarboxazid, another MAOI). Nowhere near as good as Nardil on its own, but I'm augmenting with several other meds- bupropion, amitryptyline, quetiapine, clonazepam + Alts: Kudzu, NADH & valarian. GPs should be able to prescribe this excellent med (Nardil). The hazards are simple to explain & understand. Good luck I hope you get a chance with Nardil.
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post #23 of 91 (permalink) Old 01-09-2013, 04:50 PM
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I've been on Nardil for just over a month. The official dose is 3x15mg, but I find that I can't take that much. I just take 1 to 2 pills per day instead of 3.

Overall rating: 5/5
This drug is amazing. It simply works, and it has a very mild feel to it. I don't feel like I'm on drugs. It feels like this is who I naturally am. Social anxiety is mostly gone. Depression is gone too.

Positive Effects:
1 - This drug has an extremely long effect. Due to it being an irreversible MAOI, it doesn't really have a conventional half-life. Levels of MAO will return based on however long it takes for the body to make more of it. I can forget to take Nardil for 2 days and I still feel awesome. This would be in contrast to the reversible MAOI, moclobemide, which would wear off after a few hours, leaving me shaking like a crackhead going through withdrawal.
2 - Although there are a lot of side effects, those side effects are mild. They don't cause many problems.
3 - Since this drug is not an SSRI, it does not block the eurphoric effects of MDMA, although this is not recommended because the two drugs have a strong and potentially fatal synergystic effect.
4 - Taking Nardil with Prozac or another SSRI is insanely powerful. The effect rivals MDMA. A single doctor would probably never prescribe both at the same time, so you'll need to go doctor shopping if you want to try that. This is very dangerous, so be careful.
5 - Very strong appetite suppression. I've lost about 10 pounds this month. I just forget to eat sometimes.

Negative Effects:
1 - I seem to have issues with random bruising and inflammation. This stuff is incredibly hard on the body. I take very large amounts of vitamin C to help the body fix these problems. I also find myself taking Advil every couple of days.
2 - Nardil is known to deplete vitamin B6.
3 - MAOI drugs are linked to liver failure, so try not to abuse your liver in other ways. Taking Nardil then binge drinking is not the best thing for your liver.
4 - Nardil strongly enhances the effects of many drugs. A single nasal decongestant pill is enough to get my heart pounding very hard.
5 - Nardil also strongly interacts with herbal things. Drinking tea can make me extremely tired.
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post #24 of 91 (permalink) Old 05-21-2013, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spungo View Post
I've been on Nardil for just over a month. The official dose is 3x15mg, but I find that I can't take that much. I just take 1 to 2 pills per day instead of 3.

Overall rating: 5/5
This drug is amazing. It simply works, and it has a very mild feel to it. I don't feel like I'm on drugs. It feels like this is who I naturally am. Social anxiety is mostly gone. Depression is gone too.

Positive Effects:
1 - This drug has an extremely long effect. Due to it being an irreversible MAOI, it doesn't really have a conventional half-life. Levels of MAO will return based on however long it takes for the body to make more of it. I can forget to take Nardil for 2 days and I still feel awesome. This would be in contrast to the reversible MAOI, moclobemide, which would wear off after a few hours, leaving me shaking like a crackhead going through withdrawal.
2 - Although there are a lot of side effects, those side effects are mild. They don't cause many problems.
3 - Since this drug is not an SSRI, it does not block the eurphoric effects of MDMA, although this is not recommended because the two drugs have a strong and potentially fatal synergystic effect.
4 - Taking Nardil with Prozac or another SSRI is insanely powerful. The effect rivals MDMA. A single doctor would probably never prescribe both at the same time, so you'll need to go doctor shopping if you want to try that. This is very dangerous, so be careful.
5 - Very strong appetite suppression. I've lost about 10 pounds this month. I just forget to eat sometimes.

Negative Effects:
1 - I seem to have issues with random bruising and inflammation. This stuff is incredibly hard on the body. I take very large amounts of vitamin C to help the body fix these problems. I also find myself taking Advil every couple of days.
2 - Nardil is known to deplete vitamin B6.
3 - MAOI drugs are linked to liver failure, so try not to abuse your liver in other ways. Taking Nardil then binge drinking is not the best thing for your liver.
4 - Nardil strongly enhances the effects of many drugs. A single nasal decongestant pill is enough to get my heart pounding very hard.
5 - Nardil also strongly interacts with herbal things. Drinking tea can make me extremely tired.

Please share an update in anther 3 months, and then anther 6 months.
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post #25 of 91 (permalink) Old 05-21-2013, 10:55 AM
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Please share an update in anther 3 months, and then anther 6 months.
I agree, I'm interested in this drug as well.

Always happy to talk to folks!
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post #26 of 91 (permalink) Old 05-27-2013, 01:47 AM
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4/5

When it works, it works hella well. When it doesn't... it's ****ing brutal.
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post #27 of 91 (permalink) Old 06-18-2013, 08:43 AM
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I feel like a jerk not replying to these responses, although it's been so long that none of you will likely read it.

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Originally Posted by jim_morrison View Post
Sorry to hear that hypomania drove you off an otherwise very effective med, did you ever try augmenting it with a mood stabilizer?
I did try augmenting it with Topamax, which ended up being a strange mix. It didn't stabilize my mood (although I did try it again later, after I was off Nardil, and it did stabilize my mood somewhat), but it did seem to enhance the effects of the Nardil. I found out later that Topamax has gabaergic properties of its own, which may be why I thought it was enhancing the Nardil, but I idk, this stuff is complicated.

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Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
How did nardil trigger hypomania, arkwelder? Also, did you feel okay not enjoying sex much, on it?
I really don't know. Under normal circumstances I have cyclothymia, which is like mild bipolar. It was most effective for me within the first 3-4 months, and then it started to sputter out a little. It never stopped working for me completely, however, like it apparently does for some people. Anyway, the hypomanic episodes were by far the strongest at first, although they never quite subsided. I think I said earlier that I developed hypomania later on, which isn't correct at all; what I should have said is that the initial months represented a sustained period of hypomania, whereas subsequent months represented periods of both ups and downs.

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Originally Posted by FoundAndLost View Post
This sounds interesting. Does it really put your SA and depression into full remission? I don't like the idea of the diet restrictions but if it really works this well then I am willing to give it a try.
For me, it took a few weeks to kick in, and worked awesome for about 3-4 months after that, and then worked decently in the following years. I'm evaluating it strictly as a SA med; obviously, if anyone has bipolar disorder or cyclothymia, there's more to consider here. I've heard people say that it kicks in and out. For them, I would say its maybe inducing bipolar, perhaps aggravating some mood instability that was already there.
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post #28 of 91 (permalink) Old 07-21-2013, 11:45 PM
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Im gonna talk to my doctor about Nardil. Please let him hear me out!
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post #29 of 91 (permalink) Old 08-07-2013, 10:35 PM
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How does this drug compare to adderall + a benzo in treating sa? I'm on 20mg adderallxr + klonopin taken when needed right now and am getting disappointed with this med regime, as I often feel like I'm on an emotional roller coaster.
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post #30 of 91 (permalink) Old 08-17-2013, 05:38 AM
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***Warning for Nardil users about vitamin B6****

I have been using Nardil with a good degree of success for 2.5 years. Don't expect magic that will cure all your ills. None of these pills contain magic expect Benzo's and tolerance to those are built up very rapidly and the magic goes away. What I was able to get out of Nardil was that it calmed my all day long fight or flight enough so that I was able to do some very good work with my therapist. Work which is still ongoing. But without the Nardil, I was in such bad shape that I was never able to make any progress in therapy and it always felt like a waste of time.

On to the B6. Nardil and Vitamin B6 counteract each other. I've seen it reccomended that Nardil users should supplement with small amounts of B6 so their body isn't devoid of it. But how much is enough I have no clue. I've seen it recommended to stay away from it all together, and if you want to be on Nardil, you'll just have to do without it. As most of you know it's almost impossible to find a doctor who has a large scope of solid Nardil info or to find the info yourself on the web.
So I started drinking large amounts of powerade which has a lot of B6 in it to help with my stomach bloating. It did help with my bloating. But I noticed that I was getting a little more anxious. I didn't really realize it at first because it was gradual. But looking back I had a slow steady slide into increased anxiety during that 3 week period. Then I got a cold and for two days in a row I drank EmergenC which has massive amounts of B6 and completely fell off a cliff with my panic. I had forgot about the B6 thing so I had no idea why this radical change for the worse had happened so fast when I had not done any med changes. Thank god I remember the B6 which I pulled up in research before I started taking Nardil a couple of years ago. I elimated the B6, then it took my body about 5 days to settle and walla, I felt much better. The B6 was the culprit. I switched the Powerade to Gatorade which has no B6 in it and it is working just as well for my bloating.

***Whether you should supplement with it or not, I cannot say. Everybody is probably different. I just want to warn you Nardil users to be conscious of your B6 intake. I hope nobody has an experience like mine, and if you do, maybe you'll remember this post and review your B6 intake and see if it has changed within the past month*****
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post #31 of 91 (permalink) Old 08-17-2013, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
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How does this drug compare to adderall + a benzo in treating sa? I'm on 20mg adderallxr + klonopin taken when needed right now and am getting disappointed with this med regime, as I often feel like I'm on an emotional roller coaster.
I can only try to explain it this way in terms of my experience. On Nardil I don't feel calmer in a benzo way, in the sense of being tranquillised, but I feel calmer in my thoughts.

After using Nardil you may begin you get thoughts like "So what if people look at me strangely, everyone's different" or "Maybe it's not true at all that I freak out everyone I meet"

Nardil appears to be conducive to more balanced reasoning and this then could lead to being a bit more relaxed about engaging with others.
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post #32 of 91 (permalink) Old 11-20-2013, 10:20 PM
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Can I take Nardil with Lithium Orotate and Klonopin?
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post #33 of 91 (permalink) Old 06-04-2014, 08:53 AM
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***Warning for Nardil users about vitamin B6****

I have been using Nardil with a good degree of success for 2.5 years. Don't expect magic that will cure all your ills. None of these pills contain magic expect Benzo's and tolerance to those are built up very rapidly and the magic goes away. What I was able to get out of Nardil was that it calmed my all day long fight or flight enough so that I was able to do some very good work with my therapist. Work which is still ongoing. But without the Nardil, I was in such bad shape that I was never able to make any progress in therapy and it always felt like a waste of time.

On to the B6. Nardil and Vitamin B6 counteract each other. I've seen it reccomended that Nardil users should supplement with small amounts of B6 so their body isn't devoid of it. But how much is enough I have no clue. I've seen it recommended to stay away from it all together, and if you want to be on Nardil, you'll just have to do without it. As most of you know it's almost impossible to find a doctor who has a large scope of solid Nardil info or to find the info yourself on the web.
So I started drinking large amounts of powerade which has a lot of B6 in it to help with my stomach bloating. It did help with my bloating. But I noticed that I was getting a little more anxious. I didn't really realize it at first because it was gradual. But looking back I had a slow steady slide into increased anxiety during that 3 week period. Then I got a cold and for two days in a row I drank EmergenC which has massive amounts of B6 and completely fell off a cliff with my panic. I had forgot about the B6 thing so I had no idea why this radical change for the worse had happened so fast when I had not done any med changes. Thank god I remember the B6 which I pulled up in research before I started taking Nardil a couple of years ago. I elimated the B6, then it took my body about 5 days to settle and walla, I felt much better. The B6 was the culprit. I switched the Powerade to Gatorade which has no B6 in it and it is working just as well for my bloating.

***Whether you should supplement with it or not, I cannot say. Everybody is probably different. I just want to warn you Nardil users to be conscious of your B6 intake. I hope nobody has an experience like mine, and if you do, maybe you'll remember this post and review your B6 intake and see if it has changed within the past month*****
Hmm interesting. Because since I've started supplementing with B6 and B12 just the last few days or so, I feel like my anxiety, racing thoughts, and insomnia has gotten worse on Nardil. I wonder what I can do to make sure I don't become deficient in the B vitamins, if I don't supplement with them. Maybe this has been the reason for the increased amped up feeling I've been experiencing these last few days.
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post #34 of 91 (permalink) Old 06-04-2014, 06:51 PM
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Posted by rocknroll714
Social Anxiety Background
Light to moderate social anxiety disorder for several years. Experimentation with various "illicit" drugs for anxiolytic purposes during that time. Nardil was the first prescription antidepressant I ever tried.

Other Treatments
Mixed with alcohol is a ridiculous combination. The very concepts of negativity and anxiety are unfathomable, for me at least. Marked reduction in hangover symptoms as well.

Treatment Experience
Nardil removed all my anxiety beautifully and made me immune to any sort of depressive feelings whatsoever. It also did wonders for my motivation and drive in general. I found that the side effects were exaggerated and the food restrictions didn't really mean anything. I ate whatever I wanted and I was fine.

WHOOO NARDIL FOR THE WIN!!
Why is this not more widely prescribed? I do EVERYTHiNG i can short of just running away to an island and nothing works. I guess I don't do illicit things but still
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post #35 of 91 (permalink) Old 06-05-2014, 06:27 AM
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Nardil plus EPH


Hi All, just started 3rd week on Phenelzine @ 60mg and all going well. 600mg Lyrica at night taking care of insomnia but still have occasion when around early afternoon, i am dead on my feet. Would adding a small dose of 5mg ethlyphenidate do the trick or is this a no no ? Cheers Dave
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post #36 of 91 (permalink) Old 07-05-2014, 03:09 AM
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MAIO's have been investigated for social anxiety treatment but never approved b/c of its dietary restrictions. Also, how can dopamine help anxiety? I know it can cause a euphoric feeling sometimes but usually leaves you bummed out. When a benzodiazepine is combined with a stimulant it can really reduce anxiety and if you're taking an antidepressant with those, theoretically you can make an MAOI. It kinda makes you high and do little dumb stuff that's why I stopped using this combination, it's not like you actually need Nardil either.

P.S. begging your doctor is something I don't want to do like suggested by one member. If you really want this drug so bad you can try different methods like manipulating the system, which is not as hard as most think. Or you can even buy it outside the U.S. from an online source.
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post #37 of 91 (permalink) Old 08-21-2014, 09:38 AM
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Nardil


Nardil is #1 without question. New drugs come out (ssri) and pharmaceutical companies push for profit. Now your GP can prescribe any ssri without prejudice. Not only do they get kick-backs but they certainly do not have enough knowledge in this field to adequately make an educated decision. I wanted to post because it has been too long since anyone has on this drug/topic. Also, it does make a difference in the manufacturer. Gavis blows Pfizer (Greenstone) away. No comparison.
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post #38 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-12-2015, 08:22 AM
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***Warning for Nardil users about vitamin B6****
Interesting. Thanks for posting this.

I'm starting Nardil a second time. I'm very certain the symptoms I had last time were actually signs of severe anemia, which is one of the rare side effects of Nardil:
-extreme fatigue
-dizziness
-pale skin
-leg cramps
-severe insomnia
-"pins and needles" in hands and feet
-difficulty with balance
-easy bruising

I'm going to get serious about anemia this time. I'm going to take B12 supplements and eat a lot more green leafy vegetables.
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post #39 of 91 (permalink) Old 11-20-2015, 11:41 PM
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Nardil poop out/loss of efficacy


I'm really interested in Nardil as a last resort. What really worries me is that it will work great and then lose efficacy/poop out over time. Would it be far too optimistic to think Nardil could potentially be a lifelong solution to my problem? It's weird how you read that some people have great success with the drug for decades, while it poops out on others in a matter of months. I don't understand how one person can develop a tolerance to a drug like this, while someone else doesn't. With benzos, if they are abused it is guaranteed that tolerance will be built. How can Nardil be different? I fear building a solid base of relationships because of the benefits of Nardil, only to see those relationships fall apart as the drug poops out, leaving me as alone as before. It seems like a lot of posters around boards like this have Nardil either poop out on them or lose efficacy over time, but maybe that's only because those for whom it has worked long term have no reason to be posting on this website. Anyone have thoughts on this?I'm trying Dr. Richards audio CBT series and anything else before resorting to Nardil, btw.
Best,
John
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post #40 of 91 (permalink) Old 12-02-2015, 12:04 AM
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You will notice that it's non responsive in the first few weeks. But keep going, give it a really good 8 months to a year before you decide it's not for you. Once it kicks in, all the awesome effects break in after that, it's life changing. I only stopped taking it because of other reasons, but I'll try and go back on it again as soon as I can possibly do that.
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