Do you believe it's possible for everything to make sense if you know enough about it? - Social Anxiety Forum
 
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 05:49 PM Thread Starter
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Do you believe it's possible for everything to make sense if you know enough about it?


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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 06:29 PM
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That's a really broad question, and the answer would technically depend on precise definitions for "everything" and "make sense," which isn't even theoretically possible.

So to answer generally, no, I don't believe it's possible for "everything" to "make sense" to us -- because the universe doesn't revolve around us. I do think that the Human tendency to seek meaning in absolutely everything is absurd.

I'm curious as to exactly what your question is referencing though. Are we talking the mysteries of the universe, or some problem in your life specifically?

"Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." -Ayn Rand
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 06:30 PM
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Yes, everything's as relevant as anything else .....






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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 07:02 PM
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Some things the mind can't understand like the mystery of life but it's something we can experience on a deeper level by being present.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 07:53 PM
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No, there are physical laws proving that's not possible. You can't understand the exact position and momentum of a particle at the same time. Quantum effects mean that even if you know everything about the state of the universe at a given moment, you can't fully predict the next moment from it. Random chaotic ignorance is unavoidable.

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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-10-2019, 04:23 AM Thread Starter
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I didn't really mean if it was possible for everything to make sense at the same time. I meant that if we focus our gaze on any given thing for long enough and find out enough about whatever it is, we could eventually make sense of it. Like, I mean in a thousand years with every discovery we've yet to make and all technology not yet invented. How can we know that we couldn't eventually make sense of just about anything we can observe?

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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-10-2019, 10:30 PM
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To be very concise;

Yes.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 05:18 PM
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if you confine yourself to a limited, static, virtual world then all things can make sense, like mathematics. and we do live in a virtual world, but external influences will always mean we don't understand it. the more your understanding is based in "reality" the less sense things make.

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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-21-2019, 02:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillYouStopDave View Post
I didn't really mean if it was possible for everything to make sense at the same time. I meant that if we focus our gaze on any given thing for long enough and find out enough about whatever it is, we could eventually make sense of it. Like, I mean in a thousand years with every discovery we've yet to make and all technology not yet invented. How can we know that we couldn't eventually make sense of just about anything we can observe?
I think the point is that our observational apparatus is flawed/limited, particularly when applied to things on a quantum scale, which would presumably be important at some point in future technologies and discoveries. There's this quote - I forget who said it - about how if the human brain were more complex/intelligent, it would still be unable to fully understand itself. Some kind of perpetual gap hypothesis. But I mean given that we can't even fully comprehend the nature of reality (or our observations), that's a big huge stumbling block right off the bat to complete understanding.

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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-21-2019, 02:38 AM
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I like the optimism though I question its necessity.

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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-21-2019, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bad baby View Post
if the human brain were more complex/intelligent, it would still be unable to fully understand itself.
if reality knew itself, well.... semantics can only take me so far lol

not saying that human cognition is the quintessential embodiment of reality in any way, but i think if any sentience could "understand itself", it still couldn't.

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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 11:00 AM
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How do you believe if it's possible for everything you created for your thread make sense if you know enough about it?

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The intention of the idea.

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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 11:10 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bad baby View Post
I like the optimism though I question its necessity.
Nothing is necessary.

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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 12:28 PM
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Some things are necessary - like eating/breathing to stay alive. Understanding how the universe works is kinda optional.

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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 12:45 AM
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Nah, nothing makes sense. We're all a bunch of weird meat-bag things with consciousness hurling through space on a giant sphere-like object. There's also a bunch of lights in the sky for some reason, and a bunch of freaky *** stuff living at the bottom of the ocean.

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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-23-2019, 02:41 AM
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Making sense is somewhat subjective. Really, what does it mean for something to "make sense"? It means that you do not see any contradictions in that something. But whether you do or not depends on a lot of fundamentally unprovable assumptions.

On a very deep level, you could say that everything makes sense simply because nothing that is self-contradictory can exist, and if something appears self-contradictory, then it is because we simply haven't resolved the conflict in how we look at it. Along the lines of "I think thus I exist", we could say "I think about X thus X exists" about anything. But if everything exists, then there is no conflict between anything, and so everything makes sense.

On the opposite extreme, you could say that nothing makes sense, since anything you can imagine can be looked at from two mutually contradictory perspectives. A table is a physical object (materialism), but it is also an object existing only in my imagination (solipsism) - contradiction.

As such, I believe that it is possible for everything to make sense, it is possible for nothing to make sense, and it is possible for some things to make sense and for other things not to make sense. It's all about interpretation and perspective.
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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 11:46 AM
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An interesting paper on the limits of the whole 'know thyself' business, among other things:

On the Philosophical Relevance of Gödel’s Incompleteness Theorems

( @Barakiel bc this stuff seems right up ur alley)
(also writing this on the fly so pls correct any misconceptions if ya'll spot them

1. Basically, Hilary Putnam (who gave us The Matrix movies <3) tooke Gödel’s incompleteness and applied it to our entire bodies of Scientific and Mathematical knowledge. Science & Maths are axiomatic systems. Therefore they cannot be used to prove all truths or their own consistency, even if we have reason to believe intuitionistically that they are. BOOM perpetual knowledge gap right there.

Quote:
Let us also note in this context an application of Gödel’s theorem by Putnam (1967). Thus, consider the following two principles which, in Putnam’s words, “many people seem to accept”:4

(i) Even if some arithmetical (or set-theoretical) statements have no truth value, still to say that any arithmetical (or set-theoretical) statement that it has (or lacks) a truth value is itself always either true or false (i.e. the statements either has a truth value or it does not).

(ii) All and only decidable statements have a truth value.
Putnam shows that these two principles are together inconsistent, by applying Gödel’s first theorem.
2. There are no hard logical contraints barring us from coming up with a maths problem (now I don't have background in Maths so would that be like an NP-hard problem or sumshxt idk) or a computer program - e.g. Turing's Halting Problem - that we cannot solve. Like, we can create something and supply all of our own ingredients (about which we know everything inside out), but the results would still not make sense/be explainable to us.

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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 08:17 AM
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Sometimes I really get the feeling that nobody knows wtf is going on, and we all simply cling to our own little corner of knowledge and act like we know shxt (& we may even truly believe our own shxt) in order to protect ourselves from the looming uncertainty of everything.

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