Erm, Turkey is in Europe you know. I think it's actually a pretty good range of countries with a mixture of religious and non-religious populace for them all, other than Jordan which is predominately religious, but is at least secular.
No, Turkey isn't a European country. Historically no one would ever consider Turkey to be part of European cultural heritage. Yes a tiny bit of Turkey geographically exists in Europe, but then again a tiny bit of Russia geographically exists in the Western Hemisphere, it doesn't mean we associate them primarily with these regions, their cultures, or their histories. Geographically, historically, culturally, ethnically, Turkey is a Middle-Eastern country.
You think SIX countries from only three continents is a good
range? I can hardly imagine what you think a bad range of countries would be.
Why do you think they only tested kids not living in poverty in the US/Canada but tested kids who were in poverty in the rest of the countries? All but one of the countries have similar levels of poverty to the US and Canada. These aren't poor countries.
I didn't say who they tested. I'm raising the question because the text of the study I saw simply didn't say who they specifically selected from these populations. I think this is something that is important to know.
Percentage of populace living below the poverty line:
South Africa - 35.9%
Turkey - 16.9%
Jordan - 14.5%
US - 15.1%
Canada - 9.4%
China - 6.1%
I think you believing these countries are far more poverty stricken than the US and Canada just shows your ignorance of these countries and their typical living standards.
I think you are showing your ignorance of these countries by looking at only one isolated statistic. There's more to a nation being impoverished than simplistically counting individual incomes; there's infrastructure or a lack thereof, education or lack thereof, there is what a government is capable or incapable of providing for its people to compensate for low personal incomes and so on.
Judging by this one statistic you cite, it would seem better to live in Tunisia or Kazakhstan than Norway or Sweden! The poor in America or Canada or other advanced nations are far better off than the poor living in other, less developed countries and this can have a large effect on things like this study we are talking about.
But let's look at more statistics shall we?
How about HDI (2013) for these countries; only the US and Canada crack the top 50 from those surveyed in this study (Ranking 5th and 8th respectively) while Turkey, Jordan, China, and South Africa rank 69th, 77th, 91st, 118th respectively.
How about GDP per capita, US ranks 15th, Canada 20th, Turkey 90th, South Africa 108th, China 121st, Jordan 150th.
How about literacy rate? Canada is 36th, US 45th, Jordan 89th, China 99th, Turkey 108th, South Africa 120th
Erm, Turkey and South Africa are first world countries, and many consider China to unofficially be now, or very close to it since it's had such a huge increase in living standards for most of it's populace along with it's huge wealth/GDP. You're just highlighting your ignorance again claiming it's only the US and Canada that are first world countries.
South Africa isn't a first world country. Turkey and China are borderline but not there yet. The only two countries from the six in this study that are undisputedly in the first world are the US and Canada.
I don't even get where you are coming from when you say South Africa is a first world country, what is your standard? Their literacy rate is in the bottom half of the globe, and the human development index has them at 118th in the world as of 2013, In a world where the UN recognizes not even 200 countries this isn't good and nowhere near first world material.
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?t=0&v=39&l=enYou probably don't know this but the US is the most harsh when it comes to incarceration rates. So, your claim that the other countries are less lenient on crime is demonstrably false.
We aren't addressing incarceration policy, we are addressing the attitudes of the people towards punishment (when I said country I meant the people in first world countries and their attitudes). Yes we have a disproportionately high incarceration rate in America, but this doesn't mean the people agree that we should be punishing people the way we do, in fact there is a lot of opposition to how we handle criminal justice here in America. Attitudes are not synonymous with what the law happens to prescribe.
But let's look at attitudes!
Jordan and Turkey are surveyed in the study we are talking about here. Jordan and Turkey were also surveyed by the Pew Research Center on issues related to this topic of punishment. In terms of those surveyed, Pew found that 71% of Jordanians and 12% of Turks want Sharia to be law of the land of these percentages, 57% of Jordanians and 35% of Turks favor corporal punishment for theft, 67% of Jordanians and 29% of Turks supported stoning for adultery, and 82% of Jordanians and 17% of Turks favor the death penalty for apostasy.
Now in the study this thread is dedicated to, around 50% of those surveyed were Muslim. Is it so outrageous to think that most of the Muslims in the survey came from Jordan and Turkey and that these people possibly influenced the survey to make the religious children look harsher than the non-religious? Imagine if we replaced Jordan with India or Thailand and a bunch of Jainist or Buddhist children were studied instead, I think things would look quite different.
Wow, again it's clear you know little about these other countries. They all have high levels of education, and a culture of sharing is far more inherent to the likes of China for example with it's collectivist rather than capitalist nature. People in such societies often see the capitalist western populace as generally being more selfish, and it's true. We generally are taught to think in a more selfish/capitalist way as individuals rather than the social group being primary.
I didn't say that other countries were anti-sharing. I came out and said I didn't know how such things are handled in these countries at a young age, but that I do know that in America from an extremely young age we are institutionally taught to share and reprimanded when we don't. Keep in mind those surveyed here were young, so I'm curious to know how such values are handled in other cultures. Yes the Chinese are more collectivist than capitalist America, but is this notion drilled into them at such a young age that they would respond accordingly on a survey as children? I'd like to find out if this is the case.
Well I'd say I've just shown that it's holes in your knowledge that seems to be the problem.
What you've shown is that you seem to really want to believe this study in spite of its obvious flaws. If this study had the opposite conclusion I'd consider it suspect for the same reasons.
You never addressed the sample size, somehow you think the six country selection represents a "good range" for the survey (a survey that has a wide sweeping conclusion, all from studying fewer than 1,200 kids in only 6 countries). I just don't see how you have any confidence in this study, it looks like something an undergraduate student slaps together for an end of term assignment.