Social Anxiety Forum - View Single Post - Has anyone tried hypnotherapy?
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post #29 of (permalink) Old 07-07-2010, 05:39 AM
donavan
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joinmartin View Post
"i dont beleive i claimed nlp was hypnosis to be honest with you. the nlp communication model is an illustration of the mind which explains how your mind filters reality through your memories and beleifs , which in turn creates your automatic thoughts which then creates your state, and then state creates the behaviour ".

Ah, deletion, distortion and generalisation. Models and metaphors. Illustration of. There's a phrase in NLP that the map is not the territory. The maps of the mind are not the mind.

"well memories are an actual filter infact they are the driving filter i.e the most important and influential one. there are 5 filters - memories, beleifs, decisions, values and meta programs".

Again, map is not the territory. Still not sure about memories being filters by themselves. Granted, you could interpret them as such. Certainly wouldn't put them as a driving filter above beliefs or values though.

"if somebody with a phobia of snakes see's a snake then why do you think he panics?" the reason why the person with a phobia of snakes and the person who likes snakes, both react differently".

How do you know they react differently?

"is becasue the person with the phobia has got a memorie of an incidant in the past which caused the phobia."

Assumption. Possible. Not necessarily true. Sometimes it happens like that. Sometimes phobias get caused for other reasons. A friend of mine has a phobia about ham slices and I asked her and she's never had a bad experience in her past with some ham.


"the mind and body are linked yes and if you are correct in saying that a chemical imbalance is what causes anxiety (which i dont agree with by the way ) then what casues the chemical imbalance ? it would be the mind. the thoughts effects the body , the mind creates the imbalance".

The system is one whole. However, I did not say that anxiety is caused by a chemical imbalance? I don't know what causes anxiety. There could and probably are many causes for anxiety. The imbalance could be the cause or it could be the reflection or the symptom. We don't know.



"your arm breaking metaphor was not the best example as the breaking of an arm is a PHYSICAL problem, social anxiety is a mental probelm and thats why its catagorized under ''mental health disorders''"

Actually, it is a good example because I'm talking about not simply assuming that the problem is in one particular place and applying one form of treatment to the place where you assume the problem is. I took pain killers and yes, they dulled the pain receptors in my brain and that helped. But my arm was still broken. Is the body and mind connected? Yes. But when I broke my arm there were two areas that needed treating for the healing process to be really effective. They didn't sit there and say "ah, your mind is a TV set and the problem is that you are feeling pain so we need to go inside and fix that fault". No, they treated the pain and they treated the arm. Hypnotherapy and NLP are valuable healing tools. So are meds and CBT and other interventions.

And I know SA is a mental disorder. Has a lot of physical manifestations though and can easily lead to physical disorders such as heart problems, panic attacks, chemical imbalances etc. All things that should not be ignored and should be treated as ways of dealing with the problem. You don't just go in with the idea that a person is defective or broken and they are some sort of TV or computer that needs fixing or returning to some imagined "norm". You throw everything you've got at the problem and help them make the positive changes they want to make in their lives.

I am training in hypnotherapy and psychotherapy and NLP. But I am not authority on the subject and have never claimed to be. The fact that I am training in psychotherapy is a fact not a boast. I have my position and I stand by it so we'll probably have to respectfully disagree on this one. I have the utmost respect for you and your training and I assume you have the same for mine so this is a debate not a slanging match.

The idea that the unconscious mind and conscious mind are metaphors is fairly widely discussed and understood in hypnotherapy and psychotherapy circles. Models and metaphors of the mind.
Ah, deletion, distortion and generalisation. Models and metaphors. Illustration of. There's a phrase in NLP that the map is not the territory. The maps of the mind are not the mind.

no not models and metaphors. what planet are you on. when i said illustration i literally meant illustration , a picture in a book of a persons head so yuo can look at it and then get an explanation underneath of how it works. im very aware of the phrase the map is not the territory but why you would use it in this example baffles me. delete distort and generalize is not some metaphor its what actaully happens .
every second of every day you are taking in millions of bits of info through your 5 senses THAT IS A SCIENTIFIC FACT - look it up. if you were conciously aware of all of those millions of bits of info you would go crazy. so the uncocnious mind takes in all of the info and filters it so that your concious mind is left with an amount that it can handle - THAT IS A FACT THAT IS WHAT ACTAULLY HAPPENS , it is not a metaphor

Again, map is not the territory. Still not sure about memories being filters by themselves. Granted, you could interpret them as such. Certainly wouldn't put them as a driving filter above beliefs or values though.

what the hell are you talking about map is not the teritory , seriously bro what are you on about ? o my god . memories are filters , and memories are real , they are the territory , what planet are you are on, who trained you in hypnosis and nlp , who is feeding you this garbage ?
dont you know that a beleif is attached to a memorie and its the finding of the memorie that activates the beleif ?

How do you know they react differently?

how do i know that a person with a phobia of snakes reacts differently to a person without a phobia of snakes ? seriosuly are you really asking me that question? are you for real ? ill let that question answer its self

"is becasue the person with the phobia has got a memorie of an incidant in the past which caused the phobia."

Assumption. Possible. Not necessarily true. Sometimes it happens like that. Sometimes phobias get caused for other reasons. A friend of mine has a phobia about ham slices and I asked her and she's never had a bad experience in her past with some ham.

your friend simply does not recall the incident that casued her phobia of ham. i have a lot of issue and i know what casued most of them but others i cannot recall were they came from. if you use time line therapy it always takes you back to the 1st memorie that casued the issue
even if a persons phobia of snakes was casued by simply watching yuor mother react badly around a snake and then modelling her behaviour, that is still a memorie, that is still the experience that caused the phobia.
even if your phobia comes from your mother saying ''watch out son snakes are dangerous , they kill you '' again thats still a momorie , an experiecne that caused the phobia
even if its something that you imagined that casued the phobia again its still a memorie. if you have a phobia of public speaking becasue one day you started imagining all of the things that could go wrong whilst speaking then those imaginations are still mememories
why are those imaginations still memories? well if youve been trained properly in hypnosis and nlp , which im sure you havent by the absolute garbage you come out with , then you will be able to answer that question yourself

I have the utmost respect for you and your training and I assume you have the same for mine so this is a debate not a slanging match.


im sorry i dont mean to be rude but i have absolutely no respect for your training becasue you have obviously been trained wrong cos some of the comments you come out with ont he sdubject of nlp and hypnosis are not only wrong but plain lunicy

The idea that the unconscious mind and conscious mind are metaphors is fairly widely discussed and understood in hypnotherapy and psychotherapy circles. Models and metaphors of the mind.[/QUOTE]

its scientific fact that the unconcious and concious mind are real. i dont know what else i can say , its a fact that yuor heart is real and its also a fact that your concious mind and unconcious mind are real. i just cant see your reason for a debate on thi subject
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