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Nardil (phenelzine) [MAOI]

192K views 90 replies 45 participants last post by  ManInAShed 
#1 ·
Nardil is classified as a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI). Although it is an older antidepressant and often not commonly prescribed anymore, some scientific studies conclude that it has the potential to be the most effective drug for SAD and Social Phobia. It affects both dopamine and serotonin levels, as well as GABA dysfunction in order to uniquely address all potentially problematic areas that are usually influencing the degree of severity of the social anxiety.

For these reasons, many scientists believe that Nardil and other MAOIs should be prescribed for SAD rather newer antidepressants, despite the diet limitations and risk of high blood pressure that accompanies them.

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#70 ·
Thanks for the nice words Boppy.

Know what you mean about mindfulness, I have a book with a guided 8 week mindfulness plan which I bought about 5 years ago and I never got past the 3rd week :). It wasn't being impatient it was just so hard to even contemplate when anxiety kicked in. Why be kind to yourself when you can drive yourself insane eh ? Dont want to overdo my praise for Nardil but it has given me that time to be able to concentrate on nourishing (as they call it in mindfulness) activities and make them an integral part of my life, and that helps so much. I'm an atheist thru and thru, and the comfort you find in religion, I find in the beauty of the universe. Its good to understand what life means to yourself !! Or something like that :). I have no burning desire to come off meds, but if I could get to that position then I would. If I dont, then no worries.

Kurdish Fella,
as Boppy said, you hear people mention 120mg quite often so I guess it depends where in the world you are. Here in the UK, dont think you have much chance of ever being approved to go higher than 90mg. Probably not much chance to get as high as 90mg.
 
#71 ·
Thank you for sharing your perspective and experiences FSC01, and for all the reassurance when I was feeling like garbage!!!!:)

Big news!!! My depression has now dropped to zero, and while I still have some anxiety related to hectic or stressful social situations I have already seen at least a 60-70 % improvement in that area. Interest in activities I enjoy has returned and even increased from previously. Anxiety used to stop me from focusing or having energy to pursue a thought process before -almost ANY thought process - as fully as i wanted to. No matter what I'd try to work on, i'd be blocked off by a feeling of dread, that I'd have to try to run and hide from, but now I can work on whatever I want and feel so much enjoyment! I have had some light occasional mania and and near-constant mild euphoria that is so pleasant I'm afraid of getting addicted to the feeling. I love talking now and feel my thoughts connect as so much quicker and better, i can talk lucidly on a subject for hours! This is kind of exhausting actually but people seem to enjoy engaging with me so much more because I seem relaxed and happy, though somewhat high and fatigued.

When this talkative streak first kicked in, i was a bit aggressive and insensitive almost like pressurized verbal diarrhea but now engage convos where I'm able to listen and interact more naturally and joke around. Before Nardil when I would make eye contact I would feel an intense shame as though the person was suspecting me of every possible negative thing ans motivation imaginable but now that feeling is almost gone completely!! I smile happily and unselfconsciously and get friendly smiles back, and even if I don't it doesn't phase me as I no longer dissect social interactions. It's like I'm bored of thinking of them right after they occur instead of compulsively analyzing!!

Another strange phenomenon that has happened a few of the days is that instead of overestimating and admiring/being intimidated by everyone and internalizing constant involuntary self-contempt and self-abuse for every failed social interaction - I now tend to think more favorably of my own decisions and actions and less of others'. Had a few days of irritability and judgmental thinking even confronting family members for perceived slights where I ordinarily would have blamed all feelings of rejection on myself and longed to die. This isn't one hundred percent positive or rational but it's been part of the learning process. I'm glad I actually don't have tense social obligations very often at present and can practice on family and friends. Have got into some religious and political Facebook discussions that would have sent my anxiety and self-scrutiny through the roof before with no major no major stress or horror now!!!!!! I am easing into other social situations.

I I have been on 45 mg for a full 3 weeks after working up from 15 mg over 10 days (so a little over a month total). I have severe body fatigue that made me sleep for 18 hours a day for a few days and now makes me need random naps. I still have anhedonia about moving around and going into public due to this bodily exhaustion. But the feeling of well-being, and the intellectual and creative projects I can pursue from home have made me not really mind. I'm blessed try live with family and not be pressure to work right now and hope to continue to see improvement and reduction in side effects.

I've also had constipation and loss of appetite regularly since begining. I've dropped 10lbs. Recently urinary retention and near-constant annoying urge to pee has kicked in. I'm trying to stay hydrated but this is obnoxious! Recently body-weakness and dizziness when standing has intensified so I have to bend over wth my head below heart often and also walk carefully, moving at a snail's pace. Don't mind much because it feels pretty great just to be alive now.

I wonder if I will even need to go up to 60mg. I check in with my doctor about dose increase in 15 days. I tried to persuade my doc to bump me up quicker when I was feeling miserable but now I'm glad she made me wait so I could observe and adjust to effects. It kicked in much sooner than expected with benefits building progressively. Really fantastic. I couldn't be more grateful and elated that this actually seems to be working!!!

One more odd occurrence - I never had any pain tolerance but Nardil almost seems to be acting like a pain killer or something. I have obsessively started chewing my nails down to nubs! And also gnawing my mouth raw because it feels good:/ I just finally got some waxy gum to chew on today because it was becoming gross and disturbing:/
 
#72 ·
I'm over the moon for you Boppy ! It feels so great to get that relief eh :) and its really good to see other people go thru that !! congrats. Apart from the side effects, your experiences pretty much mirror mine. I had to watch my aggressiveness on the talking front as well, and I can still go on a bit now (often think to myself, "please shut the f**k up David" :) ). The self confidence is great tho!

Such a shame maoi's are not used more, could save so much pain for some.

I'm sure the side effects will fade for you and hopefully Nardil will keep on working. The effects have never subsided for me after a couple years on it.

All the best !!
 
#73 ·
#74 ·
Phenelzine is a great medication, maybe the best for me. Side effects are gone in the last months. I take 90 mg in combination with methylphenidate 60 mg, 600mg oxcarbazepine,100mg L-Tryptophan and 600mg Lyrica. I'm nearly recoverd from the main problems. Mood ist stabile over the day

I think Nardil is relative safe to augment.
 
#75 ·
Schneegestein, agree that phenelzine is safe to augment with, within reason of course. I`ve taken stuff that I shouldn't have, including MPH analogue ephylphenidate and no issues although i wouldn't encourage messing about as you never know, and I've stopped that now. I am prescribed 50mg amitriptyline now for pain related to a recent injury and haven't had any problems.

I was on 600mg lyrica for anxiety and pain a good while back. What are you on it for ? GAD? Just asking cos when I dropped lyrica, Nardil got even better !!
 
#76 ·
Hey,

I take Lyrica for GAD, social phobia and insomnia. It works well. Psychiatrists prescribed me over 50 different medication the last 10 years. first ssri, second nxt ssri, third again an ssri... I lost so much time of my life. But finally i found an very good Doctor who prescribed me first Tranylcypromine. The problem, it made me very agitated and didn't work for anxiety. So i switched to Nardil which did a good response... then i started again with Methylphenidate for ADHD and the permanent listlessness. L-Tryptophan is same as the Lyrica for a better sleep.

maybe i will swap to dexamphetamine cause the Ritalins effect block my emotions a bit :/

You got better experience with Nardil or Amitriptyline ???????

greetings
 
#77 ·
Hi, I tried swapping twice to Tranylcypromine, not sure why as Nardil was doing a good job ! maybe for a bit more energy. Anyway, like you it didn't work out for me and I was told I could only go as high as 40mg on it, the maximum here in the UK, which turns out apparently as quite low.

Regarding amitriptyline, should have made it clearer. I`m still on Nardil 75mg, but have also added amitriptyline at 50mg to help out the pain in my elbow which came back after I ditched lyrica.
 
#78 ·
Hey SFC01,

I feel bad for that you can only go up to 40 mg Tranylcypromine... I got fantastic results with Tranylcypromine. I started with 10 mg, official information and direction for use is up to 60 mg ( in hospitals ), but many psychiatrists and other doctors treat with much more.

I talked with some doctors and found one ( in my worst time years ago ) to start with Tranylcypromine and pushed up to 120mg.
My Depression, generalised anxiety, social phobia und ADHD disappeard. My severe Insomnia ( since years ) was treated with a dose of 300mg of Amitriptyline. It was the probably the best combination for me ever... But i got a side effect 1:1000 and had to stopped it...

Now is Nardil there with a lot of other medications which cover only 80% of my symptoms.

i will go back to Amitriptyline to a dosage which makes me sleepy, but the problem is i can't fell asleep with it :S So i talked with the Doctor to add a second Tca like Trimipramine or an Teca like Minaserin or Maprotiline in moderate to high dose. I hope that i will work... Just Antipsychotics work perfect for my sleep but i hate them so i quit,
You wrote you take Lyrica, i took too but it made me just dizzy and feel like im drunk...


edit: With Tranylcypromine a strong effect on Depression ( most inhibited Depression ) starts on 50/60.

The higher the dose, the greater the effect on psychomotoric activation. With Tranylcypromine my ADHD was completley coverd. In my opinion it was my best medication...
 
#79 ·
Yep, would have liked to give tranlycypromine a good go but always had Nardil to fall back on and its never let me down. The sexual dysfunction and appetite increase on lyrica was pissing me off and the only time i felt it was working for anxiety was if I took double my 600mg dose every few days or so but that obviously left me short on my prescription at the end of the month so had to kind of start over again. I felt alot better mood wise when i dropped it but it was good for pain. The amitriptyline seems to be working now for pain too so thats good.

I used to take trimipramine at 200mg for anxiety and depression after I separated from my fiance and it worked really well and helped sleep too. Didn't notice many side effects on that one but ultimately my mood got too low and Nardil it had to be, so worked out well. Would be interested to see how you get on if you do manage to get Trimipramine. I'm in no hurry at all to get off Nardil but maybe one day eventually it would be good to take one medication that works on mood, sleep and pain.
 
#80 ·
Fear...

I slept in the last four nights just 3 hours every night. It is horrible...

I got an benzodiazapine withdrawal behinde me after seven years of taking all preparats.

Nardil helped me really good with it !! Just the Insomnia is a very big problem which i got since 15 years...
My psychiatris prescribed me in the past neuroleptics just for sleep like Seroquel, Clozapine, Levomeprothazine and others, but it stopped it cause neurleptics worsend all other problems and this BIGGEST was that Clozapine recured my OCD and excerbate the SAD extremly while i was on Nardil and Lyrica ! ...

Now i suffer every night... I hope it will work. Got my meeting in some hours, wish me luck my friend.

ganz liebe Grüße

Schneegestein :grin2:
 
#81 ·
Good Luck mate !! Always had an issue with insomnia before Nardil but whilst on Nardil, I found that not sleeping for a night never affected me the next day but sure 3hrs in 4 days would. Have you ever tried alternating sleep meds ie serequol for a couple nights and then amitriptyline, then something like zopiclone and then back to serequol etc? Has helped me in the past.

Since cleaning up my diet, exercising, meditating, and making sure I get up same time every morning my sleep has improved dramatically. Also bought new mattress topper, new pillows when required etc, I take a hot bath or shower an hour or so before bed. I now only use 25-50mg quetiapine occasionally.

You probably know and do all the things above but they certainly have helped me. Anyway, ganz liebe Grüße for today !! Hope you get what you need !!
 
#82 ·
Hey my friend,

It is horrible... the sleep don't come... I feel like a zombie. Tomorrow or better later i will get a new ''sedatives''

It's incridible, over the time i got a resistance to the sedative effects of any medication... I will try all without benzodiazepines...
 
#83 ·
I saw this online....

Nardil Help

Friday, April 22, 2011
URGENT NEWS! We need YOUR help!!
Oh my gosh, how long has it been..? Well anyway here's some VERY URGENT news for everyone reading! One of our fellow posters over at The Anxiety Community "HelenK" has informed us of an interesting development regarding Gavis Pharmaceuticals and their willingness to listen to our plight. If this goes well, God willing, we may actually have a shot at getting the original Nardil back!! Her post is quoted below:

Nardil Sufferers: I have some big news here about Gavis generic Nardil!

I recently wrote a complaint letter to Gavis/Novel. Their Pharmacist called me today (His name is Ilango Subramanian). I most definitely incited his interested in our negative reactions to thier generic Nardil.

Even though I, at first, did OK with the generic, the subsequent headaches and fatigue tells me the drug is less worthy than Pfizer's crap. I am now forced to return to their Nardil.

We chatted for 45 minutes -- I gave him a long history about the original Nardil - Pfizer's crap - and Gavin generic.
I spoke of all our sufferings, symptoms and side effects, ruined lives, and trials of compounding our own Nardil.

I mentioned our quest to push Pfizer into making the original formula to no avail; and how excited we were to think Gavis generic would be our answer!

Mr. Subramanian was extremely polite and grateful for my input. He could not thank me enough, and emphasized how important feedback is in marketing a new medication.

He invited me to the Company Headquarters in Somerset, NJ, to discuss Nardil with the CEO/Pharmacist/Board. I plan on going 1st week of May. I want to make a strong case for the original formula; I NEED YOUR HELP- I don't want to blow this chance.
I implore you to provide me any pertinent information and advice I can present before the Board. I am a one-man band here, so please, help me strike while the iron is hot!

I emphasized that Gavis is facing failure if not willing to re-formulate to the Gold Standard we need so desperately. This is their real fear considering the hours of research and $$ invested.

Mr. Subramanian said no one has called or reported any complaints. I laughed. I know many of you tried.

He now asks that you all report your experiences to him, even if you decided not to try it. At the very least he wants your opinion of original Nardil vs. Pfizer Nardil. This could push them over the line to re-formulate.

I recommend contacting him with your complaints even if you did not try the generic. They need to know you still want/need the original formula.

Contact: Ilango Subramanian
908-603-6012
email: info@gavispharma.com

Type "For Mr. I. Subramanian" in the text of the email.

Please, please let's give this a shot. What have we got to lose!!
HelenK
As you can see I have superfluously highlighted the relevant contact information above. Please Please PLEASE get in touch with them and share your thoughts. Above all, keep stressing that we NEED the orignal pre-2003 Nardil back!

More updates and information to come very soon. Stay tuned!
nardilhelp at 7:51 PM

1 comment:

AnonymousMay 4, 2011 at 7:07 PM
Hi. You guys are probably all over this -- I'm a lithium taker, not Nardil, and don't know the history -- but are you aware that Nardil was the drug the late David Foster Wallace took for ~20 years before deciding he couldn't tolerate the side effects anymore (a bad experience after a restaurant was the last straw, according to Rolling Stone/The New Yorker) and switching to something else?

Reply

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#84 ·
I saw this online....

Nardil Help

Friday, April 22, 2011
URGENT NEWS! We need YOUR help!!
Oh my gosh, how long has it been..? Well anyway here's some VERY URGENT news for everyone reading! One of our fellow posters over at The Anxiety Community "HelenK" has informed us of an interesting development regarding Gavis Pharmaceuticals and their willingness to listen to our plight. If this goes well, God willing, we may actually have a shot at getting the original Nardil back!! Her post is quoted below:

Nardil Sufferers: I have some big news here about Gavis generic Nardil!

I recently wrote a complaint letter to Gavis/Novel. Their Pharmacist called me today (His name is Ilango Subramanian). I most definitely incited his interested in our negative reactions to thier generic Nardil.

Even though I, at first, did OK with the generic, the subsequent headaches and fatigue tells me the drug is less worthy than Pfizer's crap. I am now forced to return to their Nardil.

We chatted for 45 minutes -- I gave him a long history about the original Nardil - Pfizer's crap - and Gavin generic.
I spoke of all our sufferings, symptoms and side effects, ruined lives, and trials of compounding our own Nardil.

I mentioned our quest to push Pfizer into making the original formula to no avail; and how excited we were to think Gavis generic would be our answer!

Mr. Subramanian was extremely polite and grateful for my input. He could not thank me enough, and emphasized how important feedback is in marketing a new medication.

He invited me to the Company Headquarters in Somerset, NJ, to discuss Nardil with the CEO/Pharmacist/Board. I plan on going 1st week of May. I want to make a strong case for the original formula; I NEED YOUR HELP- I don't want to blow this chance.
I implore you to provide me any pertinent information and advice I can present before the Board. I am a one-man band here, so please, help me strike while the iron is hot!

I emphasized that Gavis is facing failure if not willing to re-formulate to the Gold Standard we need so desperately. This is their real fear considering the hours of research and $$ invested.

Mr. Subramanian said no one has called or reported any complaints. I laughed. I know many of you tried.

He now asks that you all report your experiences to him, even if you decided not to try it. At the very least he wants your opinion of original Nardil vs. Pfizer Nardil. This could push them over the line to re-formulate.

I recommend contacting him with your complaints even if you did not try the generic. They need to know you still want/need the original formula.

Contact: Ilango Subramanian
908-603-6012
email: info@gavispharma.com

Type "For Mr. I. Subramanian" in the text of the email.

Please, please let's give this a shot. What have we got to lose!!
HelenK
As you can see I have superfluously highlighted the relevant contact information above. Please Please PLEASE get in touch with them and share your thoughts. Above all, keep stressing that we NEED the orignal pre-2003 Nardil back!

More updates and information to come very soon. Stay tuned!
nardilhelp at 7:51 PM

1 comment:

AnonymousMay 4, 2011 at 7:07 PM
Hi. You guys are probably all over this -- I'm a lithium taker, not Nardil, and don't know the history -- but are you aware that Nardil was the drug the late David Foster Wallace took for ~20 years before deciding he couldn't tolerate the side effects anymore (a bad experience after a restaurant was the last straw, according to Rolling Stone/The New Yorker) and switching to something else?

Reply

Load more...


Home
View web version

About Me

nardilhelp
View my complete profile
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think they already tried it with a few test people and they said it didn't work any better.
 
#86 ·
Hi Richards2324, never happened to me but tiredness can happen late afternoon apparently. Have always had bouts of insomnia before I started Nardil but I find since I have been on it, when I do miss a nights sleep I barely notice any fatigue the next day.

Concentration only improved for me shortly after starting on it. How long have you been on it and what dose are you currently at ?
 
#87 ·
nardil also raises gaba.
There's two forms of Gamma-Aminobutyric acid (A, B).
In adults these are inhibitory neurotransmitters and play an important role in the regulation of muscle tone. Nerve signals are constantly being fired in muscle tissue to stimulate it. This causes muscle to maintain it's strength. However if this nerve signal isn't regulated and inhibited occasionally, muscle tissue would hypertrophy. GABA blocks that nerve signal when appropriate.
GABA's are also a precursor to sleep.
A simplification of GABA is this. Our bodies are in a constant "on" state because of constant nerve impulses. Without GABA's causing an occasional "off" state their would be no resting state. Our metabolic rate would increase to a non-functional point.
In a developing brain GABA is an exicatory neurotransmitter until the glutamate synapses fully matures.
There's been some findings showing a relationship between an increase AND decrease in GH production when GABA is injected directly into the brain. When GABA is taken orally, it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier in significant quantities.
 
#90 ·
I've been on Nardil for a year and it's working well. Social anxiety and associated symptoms are markedly reduced. My mood is usually good, although I do still have bad days now and then.

The only side effect that has persisted is increased appetite and associated weight gain.

It's definitely the best medication I've been on, and I've been on a few. Makes SSRIs seem like a bad joke in comparison.

Nardil is the only med I wouldn't have a problem with taking long term. With everything else the emotionally dead feeling and the apathy eventually became too much to bear.
 
#91 ·
Nardil is the only antidepressant that ever worked for me and I've been on a lot of antidepressants. My psych took me off of it because my blood pressure was always high, even though I avoided the no-go foods. Oh Nardil, I miss you, life felt so much easier to cope with when I was on it, my mind felt so much clearer.
 
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