Kava Kava (Piper methysticum)

[Dialetheism]

I have tried store bought tea and the foot powder from on-line. Both were mildly relaxing, at least in higher doses. However I had a terrible allergic reaction to both forms. I have never had a reaction to anything OTC or Rx, so I was pretty surprised, but it causes an itchy rash on my face, and swelling of my lips and throat. The kava kava experiment ended with a shot of steroids in my behind from the ER doc. Fun times!

[Healix]

Interesting, those symptoms you had sound similar to ones that the native islanders have, though with very high consumption (900/g per week).

[Pandemic]

Had this the other night, made from the powder straight from Fji. You have to strain it through cloth for 15 mins for it to be effective.

Completely got rid of my anxiety...I wasn't heaps outgoing, just completely relaxed and had such a clear mind.

I also have irritable leg syndrome which is a b****, especially when trying to get to sleep, but the Kava also made it go away completely.

Unfortunately the stuff doesn't last more than 1-2 hours.

[sleepytime]

Don't know if it's been mentioned before, but it's very important that you take it on an empty stomach, it's the only way that you'll get the full effects.

[crdjsph]

you can buy it at your local smoke shop, this does seem to be recent in my town.

[Healix]

Ok, so I received the CO2 extract from Paradise Kava yesterday and tried some this morning on an empty stomach.

I got a sampler size of the Honey Lemon; 10g of extract. The container is pretty tiny. It has a distinctive smell and tastes a little bitter. It's by no means delicious, but manageable. I suspect that the Chocolate Orange flavor tastes better, since that's the one people seem to talk about.

The website says to take a pea-sized portion, approximately 1g, apply sublingually (underneath the tongue), and let it dissolve. I don't have tools to measure it with, so I just put a little bit on the tip of a spoon and stuck it underneath my tongue. Waited for about five minutes with no effect. Took another serving and waited for another five minutes. There was still no effect that I could discern, so I took one more serving and left it at that. I was just sitting at home because I wanted to do a preliminary test to know how it affected me before I try going out and about.

So I'm left with no effect, at least for now. I've read there is a sort of reverse-tolerance to Kava, so I'll try it again tomorrow. I'm also going out this weekend to a performance with my parents, so that would be an excellent time to give it a more intense stress test.

I don't know if my history with medications would affect my tolerance, but I was on Effexor (Venlafaxine) and Klonopin (Clonazepam) for five years, until the middle of last year when I finished tapering off.

The website recommends no more than 250mg of kavalactones a day (which is two servings, or 2g, of this particular extract), which is based on a study that used the same dosage safely with patients.

Leave your doctor a note before trying any psychoactive herbal supplements. Don't drive until you know how they affect you.

I hope this helps, and I'll post the results of more tests in a few days.

[sleepytime]

Sorry to hear that, Healix. Reverse tolerance is a real pain, hopefully it will work for you before that batch runs out.

[sleepytime]

I still have some kona kava left over so I decided to brew up a little tonight, not expecting any effects, but just wanting to get rid of it. Amazingly, this time I actually felt it. I definitely believe the reverse tolerance spiel now. It's not as nice and clean as the melo melo powder though, it made me feel kind of groggy and hungover actually.

[optimistic realist]

If you are taking Kava liquid and it doesn't numb your tongue or lips you probably don't have a good source... that is the simple test. Also, Kava is a member of the pepper family. If you are allergic to Bell Peppers you might have the same reaction to Kava.

[Frozen In a StarryVoid]

i think kava can have complications with your liver as well if ingested too frequently..or was that valerian root... one of the two.

[Drew]

Originally Posted by Frozen In a StarryVoid

i think kava can have complications with your liver as well if ingested too frequently..or was that valerian root... one of the two.

Kava definitely can. I don't know about the latter.

[optimistic realist]

Originally Posted by Drew

Kava definitely can. I don't know about the latter.

Perhaps you should elaborate. That's a pretty simple response. Have you found something that refutes the recent respected studies that show evidence that kava (water extracted root at least) is not toxic to the liver?

Here is the study that I refer to:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/.../fulltext.html

the study does not address alcohol or acetone extraction methods, or the use of non traditional parts of the plant ... which I would be suspicious of.

Its a shame that people might not use a miraculous root like kava based on dis-proven information about liver damage. Large populations use it on the islands without liver damage, mind you, there kava is water extracted. Not much evidence either way, that I can find so far on alcohol / acetone extractions but that is another issue.

[Ojee]

Kava kava has caused liver problems in the past because ignorant or greedy people would manufacture it using other parts of the plant besides the root. The root itself is completely safe.

I have used kava kava myself and I have had no problems, unfortunately, I had no relief from my anxiety either. I forget where I read this, but I read that there over 70 different types of metabolisms. So what is great for one person may not be anything fine for another. What's the saying? One mans trash is another mans treasure.

The stuff tastes like dirt, but its not so bad. If it helped I would have kept on taking it. I would just be careful who I ordered it from. It's legal to order it for personal consumption in Canada.

That's all.

[Drew]

Originally Posted by optimistic realist

Perhaps you should elaborate. That's a pretty simple response. Have you found something that refutes the recent respected studies that show evidence that kava (water extracted root at least) is not toxic to the liver?

You're right that it was a simple response. I'm sorry about that.

Kava Kava can be used in a way that won't cause liver damage, but it can cause liver damage, similar to how alcohol can if used in excess.

[kirbyisawesome]

Originally Posted by MBL

Hi !

I hear most pill forms of kava are crap.

But I hear the high quality extracts and "pastes" are very effective.

The mainstream pills are misleading in their description of contents (from sites I read), for example: only a fraction of the pills contains the claimed "30% kavaloctones".

I am soon obtaining some 84% kavalactones paste (dose size is 1 - 2 pea sized amounts). I will report back with my results. But be cautious when buying kava, not all of it is good. In fact many leading pill producing brands are no good at all.

Just buy some high quality root powder and mix it in with some coffee. I'm sure you will notice some effects. It's great but I'd rather use nootropics to shield against anxiety. Kava kava is known to give people relaxation effects. I prefer to mix it with stims for the euphoric feelings.

[molefacedmofo]

It's weird, but I actually notice weaker effects from kava than even the common dirt cheap calming herbs like valerian or chamomile. The extract I tried numbed out my lips and tongue, so I'm assuming it contained the actives. Up to 900mg of kavalactones at once gave me really mild short lived anxiety relief. Disappointing, because I had really high hopes.

[komorikun]

I've been drinking the tea lately at night to calm down and relax a few hours before bed time. Better this than booze.

[optimistic realist]

Originally Posted by molefacedmofo

It's weird, but I actually notice weaker effects from kava than even the common dirt cheap calming herbs like valerian or chamomile. The extract I tried numbed out my lips and tongue, so I'm assuming it contained the actives. Up to 900mg of kavalactones at once gave me really mild short lived anxiety relief. Disappointing, because I had really high hopes.

Maybe you need to up the dosage? Maybe you have to let it accumulate in your system? Stuff saved me from the nuthouse and it sure wasn't the placebo effect. Gd. Luck. Made me want to laugh and joke a lot too... still has that effect!

[molefacedmofo]

Originally Posted by optimistic realist

Maybe you need to up the dosage? Maybe you have to let it accumulate in your system? Stuff saved me from the nuthouse and it sure wasn't the placebo effect. Gd. Luck. Made me want to laugh and joke a lot too... still has that effect!

Yeah, I'll have to try it again in the future.

I know it wasn't a placebo - I could feel it, but I was surprised how weak it was for me, even compared to mild stuff like valerian.

For what it did for me, the cost-benefit ratio seems really lopsided. I wasn't expecting it to beat me over the head with its effects either - I'm in tune with my mind and I can always discern the effects of subtle calming herbs.

I was detoxing off phenibut at the time though, so maybe that skewed the results. It could be that it just evened out my GABA-deficient state instead of giving me a buzz like it normally would.

[sleepytime]

Guys, the reverse tolerance thing is massive. I wouldn't give up hope until you've taken several (properly prepared) doses of a quality root powder.

1) Make sure it's from a decent source. Check out reviews from http://kavasseur.blogspot.com/ and http://kavalounge.yuku.com/directory I recommend BulaKavaHouse or KavaByRex because they have the most reasonable prices for high quality root powders.

2) Drink it on an empty stomach. This is VERY important. About 4 hours since your last meal is ok.

3) Let the root soak in lukewarm liquid for 30-60 minutes. Milk is better than water since the kavalactones are not water-soluble. I use soy milk since I'm a vegan, also you can use water and add a tablespoon of soy lecithen.

4) After soaking, blend the mixture for a couple of minutes.

5) Pour the root and liquid into strainer bag and strain it into a bowl. At this point I submerge the strainer containing the root fibres in the bowl and massage and squeeze it for a further 10 minutes to extract as many kavalactones as possible.