why does God allow suffering

[justpassinby]

I firmly believe that God does NOT make people sick; and God does NOT want people to suffer. We can see this by looking at the life of Jesus. He healed the sick. He CURED people. He did not make them sick!

Why, then, are so many in pain?

There is no good or easy answer when tragedies occur. But to try and understand, we must step back and look at the big picture. God made everything perfect. When man sinned, that perfection was spoiled and all of our environment was tainted. The fact is, we live in a world where evil abounds. It is rampant throughout every aspect of creation. We are subject to the evil actions of sinful people around us. God can and does intervene in some events, but why not others? Only He knows that answer, but the Bible teaches that there will be a time when He will end this world as we know it. In heaven, there will be no more death, sadness, pain, sickness, or suffering of any kind. Below are some thoughts on why I believe God allows us to suffer.

1) One reason many of us suffer is because we do things that cause us pain. We don't eat right, so we have heart attacks. We drive carelessly or fast, so we have accidents. We smoke, so we get lung cancer.

2) But what about innocent children who are not responsible for their suffering? Why do they get sick? Maybe it's because we do not live in a perfect world. God intended for us to have perfect bodies, perfect health, and freedom from pain and suffering. The world He created was originally perfect, just as He had planned it. But evil destroyed our perfect world. When sin entered the picture, it brought with it death, pain, and suffering. Don't misunderstand me, people do not suffer because of their own personal sins, necessarily; but because the world is changed because of sin being in the world. Jesus said, "In this world, you will have tribulation." Just as in the case with Job, I believe that evil forces attack us and cause much suffering in an attempt to get people to blame God and turn away from Him.

In order for God to preserve our rights as individuals (to choose for ourselves), He had to allow us the freedom to sin. He also had to allow the consequences of our behaviors. That means that He does not normally interfere with things which happen naturally in this world, such as sickness and disease caused by toxins in the environment, accidents as a result of risky behaviors, and natural disasters resulting from changes in the ozone layer, etc. God does not cause these natural consequences, but He does allow them. However, many times, He does intervene miraculously or work even in the worst of situations to bring about something good from them.

3) Why would God allow me to suffer? Maybe so that I can increase my faith in Him, increase my compassion for others, or be better able to encourage and help other hurting people (2 Corinthians 1:3-5).

BUT WE DO HAVE HOPE FOR BETTER THINGS:

Though this world is no longer perfect, as God intended it to be; He will create a perfect world for us in heaven where there will no longer be any tears, pain, or suffering; and "death will be swallowed up in victory." Why? Because God will ultimately get rid of everything that is not HIS. Suffering, sin, pain, tears and death are not HIS.

We have HOPE that all suffering will be relieved when we go to spend eternity with God. BUT, this promise of eternal bliss is only for those who know, serve, and love Him.

God is not the cause of any suffering in this world, Satan is! To blame God for evil is foolish, because it actually causes us to follow the one who IS truly responsible for pain and problems.

Why doesn't God cure our bodies? Maybe because our souls are of greater importance to him than our bodies are! Though He cares about our physical suffering, healing our soul is more urgent because it is the soul that lives forever. Our relationship with God is what determines WHERE that soul spends eternity. It is my prayer that all who suffer here on earth will seek God and TRUE healing (of the soul) that He offers, so that they can all gather in Heaven where there will be no more sickness and pain. Hopefully we will all meet there for the feast that God has promised to those who enter through the narrow gate.

In this world, bad things happen even to good people. Those who have a personal relationship with God are better able to cope with whatever happens in their lives. We can live without fear, even though we do not know what the future holds IF we know the one who holds the future in His hands. When we discover the great love God has for us, we can let go of our fear. Psalm 27:1 says "The Lord is my salvation. Whom shall I fear?" Jesus triumphed over death, and He alone can save us from eternal death. He can also see us through all the trials of life and bring us safely to heaven!

No one can comfort the depths of our sorrows except God. Read His promises in the Bible, and your heart will be encouraged. If you fail to see Him as the only source of hope presented in the pages of the Hugs and HOPE web site, then I have failed in my effort. If you don't know Him, but you want to known Him, I would love to introduce Him to you!




WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT SUFFERING:

Romans 8:18: "For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth being compared with the glory that is about to be revealed to us!"

Romans 8:17: "We must also share in his suffering, if we are to share in his glory."

John 16:33: "In this world you will have tribulation. But be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world." (Or as another translations puts it: "Take courage, I've deprived it of its power to harm and conquer you.")

James 5:13: "Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray."

1 Peter 4:12: "Do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you. But to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing." And verse 19 says: "Let those who suffer ... entrust their souls to a faithful Creator. . ."

[Anxiety75]

Adam and Eve sinned so it passed on this imperfection to humans. Satan later raised a challenge before God. He said that people could rule and be successful without God's guidance-so God allowed him to prove it. Now look at the sad situation in the world. Are most people being guided by God? No, for they lack the love reflected by Christ Jesus himself who set the perfect example of love for neighbor. How can people kill and consider themselves "Christians"?

For example: In a sense God is the teacher and Satan was the "student". Let's suppose Satan said "Teacher, I have a better way and I can teach people a better way to do something than you can!"

Then God said, Okay prove it because I want people to know for sure that what you teach will eventually cause problems and it will turn out bad. It is just a matter of time, so go ahead."

(Destroying the serpent, Satan right then would not have proved anything and it would possibly have caused peple to believe that maybe ppl could do better without God.) The angels are also involved in this meaning it concerns them as it does people.

Over thousands of years, it is evident that Satan's way of doing things has turned out faulty for everyone. Wars, crime and other violence being caused by him has proved that he cannot rule a successful world. He has made it worse.

God promises to destroy Satan and bring a new world on earth as it is in heaven. (Don't forget the Lord's prayer.)
Remember in Genesis what he said about the promised seed Jesus(Satan would bruise Jesus in the "heel" and then Jesus would bruise Satan in the head meaning the head is a more serious injury which would end in his permanent destruction.(Genesis 3:15.)
Satan really does rule this earth.

God is on trial and wants to clear his name of all reproach. Like anyone on trial, he has to have his name cleared based on evidence. Satan has to be proved guilty based on evidence too. This is not a trial in a literal courtroom. It all takes place among God and Jesus in heaven. No human can stop Satan.

If you want to know the main reason for suffering it is Satan.The rest is mankind's lack of reliance toward God. This is not to say that ALL people don't rely on God. Sincere people rely on God everyday.

'He is healing the broken-hearted ones and is binding up their painful spots.' Psalm 147:3

Just as in the case with Job, I believe that evil forces attack us and cause much suffering in an attempt to get people to blame God and turn away from Him.

I just wanted to say you hit the nail on the head on this one!


Let me suggest some articles based on the Bible. They are not any of my opinions. I think people need to know because this confuses people. Let these articles help you to understand.

http://www.watchtower.org/e/200611/article_02.htm

http://www.watchtower.org/e/20030501/article_01.htm

http://www.watchtower.org/e/20040322/article_01.htm

http://www.watchtower.org/e/200611/article_01.htm

[Anxiety75]

I don't mean to get over preachy, but there in Job it shows the Devil was walking about in the earth and not in some fiery pit. It says at Job 1:7 God asks Satan, "Where do you come from?" At that Satan answered, "From roving about in the earth and walking about in it.

Then it talks about how he had attacked Job one who was "blameless" and "upright".

At that point Satan was taunting God and saying that Job only served him because he gave him so much, a home, cattle, etc.

Then he said that Job would turn against him if he withdrew his blessings and let Satan cause him problems-anything except not to kill him.

Can't we be tested in the same way today? Thats the point he was making.

[screwjack]

I've always liked the story of Job "Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?" God is free to judge his creation "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if you have understanding"

Maybe i'm weird, I don't believe in the divinity of the bible but enjoy scripture. I agree with the core message anyways i'm not trying to debate anyone "Why me?" and "Why do good things happen to bad people?" is something that us SAers continuely worry about and it saddens me that many lose their minds and hearts to it without thinking it through.

[justpassinby]

Thanks for contributing to this thread!

For myself personally, I find it better to openly embrace suffering, and reinforce my faith by praying, so i'm not blind sided by events that are naturally going to happen, sickness, death, accidents, you name it, its all going to happen at some point.

Reading the bible, studying the stories and developing a personal relationship with god has PROVEN to me, that i'm not alone and that I have strength beyond myself.

In this world, I feel people try to suppress suffering, numb it or alter their mind states through drugs or entertainment, sort of a "brainwashing" effect to shelter their minds from the inevitable. Then get completely tail spinned when something in life (which is bound to happen)...occurs to "wake them up." Awareness and strength through God has given me comfort and I don't fall to pieces at small stressors anymore.

[socially inept]

god plays no part in people's suffering.

there are laws to this uniververse and we live by those laws. if we break the laws we face the conseguences and god canot interfear with the consequences cos if he did thn he would take away free will from human beings.

for example if you kill another being then you must face the consequences. a person has free will to choose either to kill someone or not kill someone. if they choose to not kill somebody then there is NO consequences to be faced. but if they choose to kill then they immediately activatethe law of cause and effect , crime and consequence. the momnt they kil they have consequences waiting for them in the future.

the consequences can be anything , it might be a heart attack, divorce , a road accident, cancer. if that person person who killed as to develop cancer years later as a consequence for there actions then that person would be suffering.
now if god entered the equation and cured that persons cancer then god hs took away that persons free will. that person had the free will to either kill or no kill but if god cures he consequence of choosing the bad action then the persons free will hs gone cos it wouldnt matter ifhe chose good or bad cos nothing would happen when you do bad .

there are laws in this world and god does not interfere with these laws. just like the law of gravity is always here, so to is the law of cause and effect. and just like god doesnt interfere with graity he doesnt interfere with caise and effect either

[MavenMI6Agent009]

^ Well said. I think everything is related to law and their is no magic to ones pain or suffering. Cause and effect are the reasons from a scientific view why things happen for clear reasons. Unless God is pissed at science their may be certain unexplained circumstances no one can solve.

[Anxiety75]

Originally Posted by Under Pressure

There is no god.

I'm sorry you feel that way. That's exactly what some ppl are lead to believe.
And you don't need proof from the Bible to believe in God. What do you see when you go outside or when you treasure something small and insignificant that really does matter? What about so many things that are intricate in nature as if designed by "someone"? What has led you to believe this and that life is in vain b/c it would be IF there were no God.

[Anxiety75]

Yeah like the "cause and effect". What a person does willingly or unwillingly has consequences. It doesn't mean God does it. There's a difference between causing something and allowing it.

Example: A mother and her small child are driving on the road when a huge semi truck come barreling through on the wrong side of the road-the driver he's intoxicated-he smashes the car to pieces and the child and mother are killed instantly. Who do you blame? The drunk driver who should never be out on the road or the power of God who for some unknown reason wants to take the life of an innocent mother and her daughter.

God is simply NOT responsible for accidents and evil.

Originally Posted by socially inept

god plays no part in people's suffering.

there are laws to this uniververse and we live by those laws. if we break the laws we face the conseguences and god canot interfear with the consequences cos if he did thn he would take away free will from human beings.

for example if you kill another being then you must face the consequences. a person has free will to choose either to kill someone or not kill someone. if they choose to not kill somebody then there is NO consequences to be faced. but if they choose to kill then they immediately activatethe law of cause and effect , crime and consequence. the momnt they kil they have consequences waiting for them in the future.

the consequences can be anything , it might be a heart attack, divorce , a road accident, cancer. if that person person who killed as to develop cancer years later as a consequence for there actions then that person would be suffering.
now if god entered the equation and cured that persons cancer then god hs took away that persons free will. that person had the free will to either kill or no kill but if god cures he consequence of choosing the bad action then the persons free will hs gone cos it wouldnt matter ifhe chose good or bad cos nothing would happen when you do bad .

there are laws in this world and god does not interfere with these laws. just like the law of gravity is always here, so to is the law of cause and effect. and just like god doesnt interfere with graity he doesnt interfere with caise and effect either

[Thomas Paine]

If you want a view from a non-Christian - I believe that the reason God causes suffering is fairly simple because without it we wouldn't appreciate non-suffering (happiness). It's also been my experience that people who have been through the most suffering are generally nicer people after it. And then if you look at the big picture - some people have to suffer in order to make other people's lives seem easier.

[screwjack]

Before this thread is closed for debate i'd like to encourage everyone to read up on the "problem of evil" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_problem_of_evil it makes up for some good philosophical reading.

My biggest problem with the idea of satan/evil is how can it be seperate yet part of Gods plan? This means that ulimately satan is doing Gods work, unless you disconnect your brain and believe that god is beyond human logic which is ok too.

[justpassinby]

Originally Posted by screwjack

My biggest problem with the idea of satan/evil is how can it be seperate yet part of Gods plan? This means that ulimately satan is doing Gods work, unless you disconnect your brain and believe that god is beyond human logic which is ok too.

I couldn't answer as succinctly as I would have liked so I found this, hope it helps:

God is all powerful. Yet He allows Satan to carry out his deceitful and destructive activities—within certain limits—for a purpose. To understand that purpose, let's begin with an example from the book of Job.

"One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. The LORD said to Satan, 'Where have you come from?' Satan answered the LORD, 'From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it.' Then the LORD said to Satan, 'Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.'

"'Does Job fear God for nothing?' Satan replied. 'Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.' The LORD said to Satan, 'Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger'" (Job 1:6-12, NIV).

God understood Job's heart better than Satan perceived it. Though God granted Satan permission to afflict Job, the devil failed in his attempt to turn this righteous man against God. Nevertheless, the story of Job's suffering under Satan's affliction reveals much about why God sometimes allows us to suffer.

As with Job, God tests the character of every human being. Paul wrote, "We are not trying to please men but God, who tests our hearts" (1 Thessalonians 2:4, NIV). Moses explained to the ancient Israelites, "Remember how the LORD your God led you all the way in the desert these forty years, to humble you and to test you in order to know what was in your heart, whether or not you would keep his commands. He humbled you, causing you to hunger [a form of suffering] and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your fathers had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD" (Deuteronomy 8:2-3, NIV).

God allows mankind to learn—partly by firsthand experience—that the only way of life that will work is the way of life He reveals in His Word, the Bible. That lesson will not be complete until all of humanity has learned that "every word" of God's revealed instructions is vital to our physical, mental and spiritual well-being (Matthew 4:4; Deuteronomy 5:29). No alternative way of life achieves God's purpose or ultimately leads us to happiness.

But how can God get this point across to people who are born into the world with no knowledge or understanding? He could have preprogrammed us to behave only according to harmless predetermined instincts. But then we would be mere automatons, having no choices, no individuality, no character.

Such existence is not what God intends for us. He has created us to become members of His own family —His sons and daughters (2 Corinthians 6:1—able to carry great responsibilities within His family.

At the beginning of human existence God stated His purpose for us: "Then God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.' So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them" (Genesis 1:26-27).

God created mankind to be like Him, to rule—have dominion—over His creation. To learn to properly exercise such a level of responsibility, man must first learn how to discern right from wrong, good from bad and the wise from the foolish. Learning real wisdom involves learning how to make wise choices. From the beginning God pointed out the right way, but He allowed humans to be exposed to and make foolish choices.

God allowed Satan, the epitome of evil, to enter the Garden of Eden and discuss his view of life with Adam and Eve. They then had to make a choice. They chose to follow Satan rather than God. Satan's tragic delusion of mankind has been the result.

However, when Jesus Christ returns to earth, God will remove the delusion of Satan. God then will begin, on a grand scale, the process of reversing the damage Satan has done. Eventually none of the devil's influence will remain.

Mankind can then review thousands of years of tragic history and compare it with the blessings of Christ's rule. The Bible reveals that when this occurs the overwhelming majority of humanity will reject Satan's deceptions and enthusiastically embrace every word of God.

God is in control, but He has allowed Satan to dominate humanity for two basic reasons. First, Adam and Eve, our first parents, chose Satan's domination over them. Second, God wants all of humanity to learn that "the way of man is not in himself; it is not in man who walks to direct his own steps" (Jeremiah 10:23).

[Thresher V]

Amazing how so many people can put their faith in fictional beings, no wonder so many people have problems. For those wishing to bombard me with their so-called "proof": I was a follow for many years, many years ago...I know the bible, I know the traditions, and now I know the real truth. I suggest everyone do a little un-biased research to validate your belief....that doesn't mean you seek answers from a religious school or church.

[screwjack]

Originally Posted by justpassinby

I couldn't answer as succinctly as I would have liked so I found this, hope it helps:

Yes the story of Job has helped me reconcile the problem of evil, it's more the idea of Satan being described as a seperate entity from God that I have problems with. I can't really cope with a being that would deny us His light as punishment. But that is my problem and ventures into seperate spirituality from christianity.

[Anxiety75]

Why are some so confident that these "fictional'" characters don't exist? That's what the Devil wants ppl to believe. Look at the evil in the world. Look at how it is worsening. It isn't just that mankind just gets greedier, it's Satan's influence. The Bible says Satan blinds the minds of the unbelievers.
2 Corinthians 4:4

For those who cannot see beyond their nose-the ones who automatically dismiss God/Jesus/Devil as unreal. (See Psalms 10:4)

(Usually it's the, "I can't see what I don't believe.")
When in reality those who don't believe in God/Jesus/Devil believe in many things they can't see.

We can't see a lot but scientists know certain sub-atomic particles exist and the way light works and so forth. They are confident whatever makes things in science work is there but yet to be seen with the naked eye or a microscope.

We think we have the answers? We have not begun to scratch the surface. We are mere human beings with limited capacity compared to the "fictional characters" out there beyond our sight. I dare not challenge God and tell him how to run things or ask him about his sense of justice. Who am I do do that?


I do recommend that people study for themselves not necessarily the Bible but nature, science, stop and look at the small things and the big and you see intellect. Not some empty force that just popped into existence. If there is no God, there would be no life, no nothing. We would not exist.

For his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world's creation onward because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship so that they are inexcusable. Romans 1:20

Originally Posted by Thresher V

Amazing how so many people can put their faith in fictional beings, no wonder so many people have problems. For those wishing to bombard me with their so-called "proof": I was a follow for many years, many years ago...I know the bible, I know the traditions, and now I know the real truth. I suggest everyone do a little un-biased research to validate your belief....that doesn't mean you seek answers from a religious school or church.

[Anxiety75]

Originally Posted by screwjack

Yes the story of Job has helped me reconcile the problem of evil, it's more the idea of Satan being described as a seperate entity from God that I have problems with. I can't really cope with a being that would deny us His light as punishment. But that is my problem and ventures into seperate spirituality from christianity.

Satan was once an angel (a creation from God) who was good but he began to take pride in himself and became selfish and greedy and wanted his own worship. (He was not called Satan before he disobeyed.) The meaning of "Satan" means "resister".

"YOU are from YOUR father the Devil, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie]. *John 8:44

Even the Bible says that 1/3 of the angels of heaven disobeyed-

*And another sign was seen in heaven, and, look! a great fiery-colored dragon, with seven heads and ten horns and upon its heads seven diadems; *and its tail drags a third of the stars of heaven, and it hurled them down to the earth.. Revelation 12:4

Understand that after this angel grew wicked and became Satan he was an enemy of God-not a collaborator. He and God do not work together. They are totally opposite. In no way part of a single entity.

[Thresher V]

Don't quote illogical nonsense to me. "Evil" as you call it, is open to interpretation. Is a lion evil for eating a gazelle? Or is a black hole evil for destroying a star? No, merely these are just the way the universe works. If you are going to fire back with the behaviors of man against each other, remember where you are....these behaviors are not of the devil but of faulty personality traits, chemical imbalances, emotional scaring, etc. Why must you theists demonize everything?

All of your praying and worship has not cured you of your SA ills, have they?

[screwjack]

Originally Posted by Anxiety75

Understand that after this angel grew wicked and became Satan he was an enemy of God-not a collaborator. He and God do not work together. They are totally opposite. In no way part of a single entity.

This is where the paradoxes begin and nothing solved because we go into endless repetition. If God is omniscient and the creator/ruler of the universe how can anything not be a part of Him? Nothing works against Him to say otherwise is to doubt His will.

This is why I am not a christian, I enjoy many of the things christianity has to offer but I simply view Jesus/the bible/word of God as metaphor rather than literal truth. From my point of view we are both on the same path just taking different routes. No disrespect to anyone intended, even if you disagree.

[Under Pressure]

Originally Posted by justpassinby

He healed the sick. He CURED people.

Jesus also BUILT furniture.

[scaredtolive]

Originally Posted by Under Pressure

Jesus also BUILT furniture.

What you think he'd charge for a kitchen table? I'd bet he'd put Ashley's furniture right out of business. Think about it. Would you rather have a table designed by Ashley or the the savior of mankind?