Incapable of Attracting Women

[Badrelg27]

The title pretty much explains my entire life. My SA has caused me to be totally inept at interacting with the opposite sex, and now I'm putting extreme pressure on myself to overcome it because I'll be graduating college next May and the month after that my sister will be getting married, so once that's passed the pressure will be on me from my family to find someone I can settle down with...

But the problem is I've never settled down with anybody, not even for a night. I've barely kissed a girl and have never even had a chance to have sex. I get along great with guys, but freeze up in conversations with girls and either don't know how to start the conversation or how to keep it going.

Whenever I end up having lengthy conversations with girls I'm interested in, I don't remember how it started and it usually ends up with nothing at all, not even a new platonic friend. I feel like if I could just get a girl to know the real me, they could love me. But I can't do it! And on top of that I don't have the "game" nor the motivation to go out and have a one-night stand.

What I don't understand about myself is why I have this problem in the first place. I feel I have a lot of good qualities that a girl could potentially love about me. I'm generally optimistic about things (which is the only reason I haven't given up hope), I take good care of my stuff and surroundings, I cook and clean, I'm responsible about bills and homework and other important stuff, I have a good sense of humor, I'm a talented musician, and I truly enjoy helping people and making them happy. I feel I generally have my act together.

So why can't I project myself as a smart, nice or interesting person to females? My lack of self-confidence shouldn't even exist, yet it's eating away at me every passing moment. My friends and family are totally unaware of the depths of my troubles and see me as someone who's happy with their life and how it's going, which makes me feel like I'm living a lie.

I plan on seeking professional counsel very soon for these issues, but beyond that what can I do to turn this around???

[Moon Calf]

I dunno. Maybe read a book on how to pick up women? I hate that we can't just be ourselves. Why do we have to play these stupid games?

[Ohio Fatso]

Because we were stupid enough to let them take us over. I do not play the game. Sometimes I like to watch the old westerns where the woman is a lot more submissive than now. Now they act like they own the world, and they do because we let them take it from us. It used to be a man's world. Now it's not because the men turned into wimps.

I'm a wimp myself, and it seems like there's no way to turn it around. In the olden days a man and woman had roles. Now their roles are the same. Woman needed a man to support and provide for her. Now she doesn't. So now they can shop around for a worthless gigolo who won't work, bums off his parents, etc., but as long as he's cool that's all they care about.

[Qoder]

Uh, well I can't exactly help you with that (I've never kissed a girl period, not even "barely").

But from what I know, it's all about confidence and how you project yourself. Now, I know that that's probably really hard (I know it is for me). But I think there are little ways to cheat.

For example, try to get into situations where you're comfortable with at least part of it. You mentioned two things I'd consider hobbies: cooking and music. Why not take a cooking class? Or play some of your music at a, a music thing? (I DON"T KNOW ABOUT THOSE THINGS HAHAHA)

That way, you'll know you have some common ground with the women you find there. And you won't have to talk about anything but the subject at hand if you don't want to. Just talk about your music, you don't have to hit on them or get into deep conversation about anything else. That way you can work on speaking confidently.

Disclaimer: I'm a huge loser

[shadowmask]

Originally Posted by Ohio Fatso

Because we were stupid enough to let them take us over. I do not play the game. Sometimes I like to watch the old westerns where the woman is a lot more submissive than now. Now they act like they own the world, and they do because we let them take it from us. It used to be a man's world. Now it's not because the men turned into wimps.

I'm a wimp myself, and it seems like there's no way to turn it around. In the olden days a man and woman had roles. Now their roles are the same. Woman needed a man to support and provide for her. Now she doesn't. So now they can shop around for a worthless gigolo who won't work, bums off his parents, etc., but as long as he's cool that's all they care about.

[Ohio Fatso]

Well, it's true. Irks me to no end that I'm going to be alone my entire life because I'm not cool enough and don't like spending money. Money is supposed to be saved and kept on hand for emergencies, not to throw away on worthless jewelry and candy.

I have to go to work and endure a lot of hell for that money. I don't have parents pumping my pockets full of cash all the time like these cool bums that women hang around with now.

I saw a couple weeks ago this very hot woman with this goofy looking idiot. This guy is really a loser. I hope they enjoy their food stamp life together. This is what makes me want to withdraw my money from the bank and rip it into pieces before I die. So no woman gets it. They've only got one thing I want anyway, but unless you dress up like a freak, listen to freak music, and just be a careless idiot, you're not going to get it.

Bitter? You damn right.

[delirium]

Originally Posted by Badrelg27

I plan on seeking professional counsel very soon for these issues, but beyond that what can I do to turn this around???

Unfortunately, I don't have any advice to give you. But I can relate. I'm going to generalize from my own experience, so don't attack me if I'm wrong. I think that a lot of life is tied to sex.

If I don't feel like I can attract a woman then I'll compare myself to other men who can, and feel inferior. These same men typically charm their way up the corporate ladder, so when I get a job, I'll typically be working for them. While I'm working for them, I'll be making less money than them, and thus have less resources. We all know (whether arguing from evolutionary biology, or by simple observation) that most women like money and power. If you're not charming to begin with, you're kind of screwed.

There's also a vicious circle in there. If I don't feel attractive to women, I'll subcommunicate this in how I behave -- meekly, avoiding eye contact, avoiding women -- and thus I will actually become unattractive. I suppose the only way out of the circle is to go out and meet some women. But that's hard advice to take for a man suffering from social anxiety.

We know that self-pity is a waste of energy. But it's really hard not to indulge, given the circumstance. The world just wasn't made for people like me. (And this forces me to change -- survival of the fittest indeed.)

[Ohio Fatso]

I think the only way to get out of the circle is to change yourself to be what they like. That means mess up your hair, don't pull your pants up all the way, quit your job, get some tattoos, piercings, look like a freak, and listen to rap music. Get drunk and high and bum your parents for money. You're in there then.

[anomalous]

Originally Posted by delirium

Unfortunately, I don't have any advice to give you. But I can relate. I'm going to generalize from my own experience, so don't attack me if I'm wrong. I think that a lot of life is tied to sex.

If I don't feel like I can attract a woman then I'll compare myself to other men who can, and feel inferior. These same men typically charm their way up the corporate ladder, so when I get a job, I'll typically be working for them. While I'm working for them, I'll be making less money than them, and thus have less resources. We all know (whether arguing from evolutionary biology, or by simple observation) that most women like money and power. If you're not charming to begin with, you're kind of screwed.

There's also a vicious circle in there. If I don't feel attractive to women, I'll subcommunicate this in how I behave -- meekly, avoiding eye contact, avoiding women -- and thus I will actually become unattractive. I suppose the only way out of the circle is to go out and meet some women. But that's hard advice to take for a man suffering from social anxiety.

We know that self-pity is a waste of energy. But it's really hard not to indulge, given the circumstance. The world just wasn't made for people like me. (And this forces me to change -- survival of the fittest indeed.)

That's a pretty good summary.

To the OP: if you're like a lot of us here, your only real option is to put forth extreme amounts of effort to meet basic societal expectations for men and to increase your self-confidence, with a high chance that the rewards will still be fairly meager after you do. It's impossible to say how hard it will be without knowing your specific situation and physical appearance, of course.

I really like delirium's reference to evolution and survival of the fittest. It's something most people tend either to forget about or to believe naively that it doesn't apply to humans in modern society. I sure as hell think it does, and I strongly believe there's a certain percentage of the male population that simply isn't up to snuff when it comes to finding a mate. Think about it: would anyone here seriously argue that there's "someone out there" for a 300 lb. handicapped guy in a wheelchair with Down's? If one is willing to admit that's probably not the case, the premise that some people are incapable of attracting mates (mates with good intentions, anyway) immediately spills over to less severe cases, because all human attributes exist on a continuum. There's no fundamental/categorical difference between the handicapped guy and your garden-variety scrawny, timid SA-suffering loser on this board (i.e., me ). We may be in slightly better shape than him, but probably still not good enough, especially if we have standards.

But hey, at least you have optimism on your side. That's more than I can say, in case you couldn't tell... lolz.

[shadowmask]

Originally Posted by anomalous

There's no fundamental/categorical difference between the handicapped guy and your garden-variety scrawny, timid SA-suffering loser on this board (i.e., me ). We may be in slightly better shape than him, but probably still not good enough, especially if we have standards.

You speak as if being scrawny and having SA are factors that can't be changed...

[drealm]

There seems to be fundamentally two schools of thought for dealing with SA, but this applies especially to dating.

The first school of thought is that SA is societies problem. And it's society, which is too intolerant of our condition. Therefore society should adapt around us and accept us for who we are.

The second school of thought is that SA is our problem. And that we should alter ourselves through therapy, behavior practice, medication ect.

While the first is noble, it's the second school of thought that gets laid more. That said, I don't want to kill off my personality just to bang some chick. So for the time being I can accept being alone, as long as I'm able to keep my personality.

[anomalous]

Originally Posted by shadowmask

You speak as if being scrawny and having SA are factors that can't be changed...

Depends on the degree and the root causes, as with anything.

Like I said in my last post, any human characteristic exists on a continuum. We all have SA, but some have it worse than others, and the reasons we have it are diverse. It's really a case-by-case deal. At the very least, it's much harder for some to overcome their obstacles than it is for others. And realistically, I think it's fair to say there are some for whom it's simply impossible, or would require more effort than is reasonable to expect.

In the long run, your optimism and ambition will probably benefit you more than my extreme cynicism and Nihilism will benefit me, so I admire your fortitude. Alternate viewpoints don't bother me until they regress into complete naivety, condescending pep talks, and total discarding of hard truths that happen to be unpleasant (which you haven't done, but unfortunately it happens quite a bit when people respond to threads like this).

[Man Is An Island]

Originally Posted by anomalous

That's a pretty good summary.

To the OP: if you're like a lot of us here, your only real option is to put forth extreme amounts of effort to meet basic societal expectations for men and to increase your self-confidence, with a high chance that the rewards will still be fairly meager after you do. It's impossible to say how hard it will be without knowing your specific situation and physical appearance, of course.

I really like delirium's reference to evolution and survival of the fittest. It's something most people tend either to forget about or to believe naively that it doesn't apply to humans in modern society. I sure as hell think it does, and I strongly believe there's a certain percentage of the male population that simply isn't up to snuff when it comes to finding a mate. Think about it: would anyone here seriously argue that there's "someone out there" for a 300 lb. handicapped guy in a wheelchair with Down's? If one is willing to admit that's probably not the case, the premise that some people are incapable of attracting mates (mates with good intentions, anyway) immediately spills over to less severe cases, because all human attributes exist on a continuum. There's no fundamental/categorical difference between the handicapped guy and your garden-variety scrawny, timid SA-suffering loser on this board (i.e., me ). We may be in slightly better shape than him, but probably still not good enough, especially if we have standards.

But hey, at least you have optimism on your side. That's more than I can say, in case you couldn't tell... lolz.

Truly an excellent point.

Think of it this way. What exactly is supposed to make you appealing to women if you are frequently anxious, have difficulty holding down a job, are not good looking, have no prospects and generally do not like yourself? Sure, you can be "nice", but there are billions of nice people in the world. Most of them are not "dating material", or they are already involved. It isn't enough, especially when there are so many more people in the world with at least one or more of those above characteristics which we (may) lack.

I occasionally become lonely, but then I ask myself this: If I were a woman, would I date me? No chance. So why should I try and subject myself to one? Even if I did try and succeed in the short run, I would be quickly exposed for what I am.

Basically a person's only chance if anxiety is an intractable problem for him, is if he is either wealthy or good looking, although that could very well not be enough. Some people are simply not meant to procreate, bitter as it may be to acknowledge.

[Ohio Fatso]

Originally Posted by Man Is An Island

Some people are simply not meant to procreate

Yep, people who work and save, aren't cool, aren't hip and freaky, etc. aren't meant to procreate but welfare bums and losers who never get a job can pop 'em out like jackrabbits while I have to work and pay taxes to support it.

People are just dumb. That's all there is to it. And one of these days the dumbness of people as a whole will doom the entire human race. I almost wish I could be here to see it.

One of these days there will be too many ticks and not enough dogs. The dogs will die and then the ticks will too. The bums and all these people living in a fantasy world where money grows on their parents' trees will all come crashing down.

We all lose in the end. That's what makes it so sweet.

[GnR]

Originally Posted by Ohio Fatso

Yep, people who work and save, aren't cool, aren't hip and freaky, etc. aren't meant to procreate but welfare bums and losers who never get a job can pop 'em out like jackrabbits while I have to work and pay taxes to support it.

People are just dumb. That's all there is to it. And one of these days the dumbness of people as a whole will doom the entire human race. I almost wish I could be here to see it.

One of these days there will be too many ticks and not enough dogs. The dogs will die and then the ticks will too. The bums and all these people living in a fantasy world where money grows on their parents' trees will all come crashing down.

We all lose in the end. That's what makes it so sweet.

Truely epic cynicism lol. No offense man, but I don't know where you got the idea that the only dudes getting laid are bums who don't work and have no money.

[Ohio Fatso]

I saw it in college and still see it a lot now. There is no way some of these people are working, yet the babes are all over them. Ridiculous. If I was a cool moron who majored in Mickey Mouse and told a bunch of lies, I would have all the women I could stand.

I know that most people my age are dopes, idiots, and bums. Not homeless bums, but people who mooch off their parents for everything and they get it. Wait until their parents die. Then what? Probably some kind of welfare program that I have to help fund.

I truly am the **** on the bottom of someone else's shoes.

[delirium]

Ohio Fatso: who are these hip and freaky young men you keep harping on? Haha... you seem to deeply dislike them. I live in Toronto and have never been to Ohio. I'm not sure if I've met any of these hip and freaky types here, but it'd be helpful if you could direct me to, perhaps, a celebrity that embodies these characteristics you despise.

[GnR]

Originally Posted by Ohio Fatso

I saw it in college and still see it a lot now. There is no way some of these people are working, yet the babes are all over them. Ridiculous. If I was a cool moron who majored in Mickey Mouse and told a bunch of lies, I would have all the women I could stand.

I know that most people my age are dopes, idiots, and bums. Not homeless bums, but people who mooch off their parents for everything and they get it. Wait until their parents die. Then what? Probably some kind of welfare program that I have to help fund.

I truly am the **** on the bottom of someone else's shoes.

Sounds to me like that would be because you think you're ****, and proceed to lay down on the sidewalk to be stepped all over.

[ch3cooh]

What drives me nuts is when I actually take the chance and try to fight through the anxiety and I'm clearly struggling then one of my friends will swoop in. They think they're helping me out but instead the girl ends up leaving with them. That **** gets old quick

[GnR]

Originally Posted by ch3cooh

What drives me nuts is when I actually take the chance and try to fight through the anxiety and I'm clearly struggling then one of my friends will swoop in. They think they're helping me out but instead the girl ends up leaving with them. That **** gets old quick

That **** is not cool, I had a buddy you used to try that all the time, hornin in on my action lol.