How hating humanity has helped me cope with SA..

[farleyknight]

or "Misanthropy and apathy is better than hope and empathy when dealing with SA"

This is the frustration forum so I hope this isn't out of line for me to say.. but on my spiritual path towards coping with SA, I've found that I can deal with most people because I no longer care about most people..

That is to say, their opinions make no difference to me, in the long run. In the short term, I do still care about people's opinions. When I hold conversation or want to make a point, I do care about my speaker's interest. So I don't think I have license to do immoral or cruel things, but that's mostly because it would have a negative long term impact for only short term reward. This concept has relieved me of my feelings of guilt towards my "usefulness" to society, since I no longer feel obliged to help the masses in any way, although I still do care about using my time on Earth wisely.

Secondly, I've found that most people just don't have much interesting to say, nor do they have very interesting taste in music, art, movies, books, etc... At the same time, of course, I probably don't have much interesting to say either. This has helped me deal with "idle chat" around strangers.

However, there is a narrow set of things that I am interested in, and so when I'm around people with those interests as well, my attitude does change towards being more socially anxious. But normal people are pretty dull to me.

I suspect that I could push this envelope even further, but I'm not sure.. What does everyone think of this? Am I being too negative? Should I lighten up? Or have you found a similar coping mechanism?

[glarmph]

Using hate and anger in a useful way? I think I'm on bored.

[EveryDayIsExactlyTheSame]

Ye, farleyknight, I'm with you. It was a long time ago since I already realized that most people are just too...conventional, dull, boring, normal..whatever the word is. I don't feel nervous when chatting with anyone anymore. If the conversation goes blank..then ohwell..what can you do? Getting all anxious isn't the solution anyway.
I have found out aswell that many people whom I interact do not have anything interesting to say. At the same time I know that I'm boring as hell too. It's pretty much the only thing I find in common with my mates.
Although, I don't have the heart to break in somebody's "interesting" story to state my own opinion. I let them talk if they want to regardless of what they have to say. I find no point in stopping them and stating something what I would think is useful, interesting. The words I say will be forgotten as soon as they are heard. I have accepted it and I kinda just go with the flow if you know what I mean.

[misticknight]

ive hated people for a long time, it hasnt helped me not care what they think though. maybe im not using my hatred right :P

[delirium]

I don't think I understand what you're saying. Are you saying that having a generally negative view of everyone else (including yourself) has helped you cope with SA? That is, by viewing everyone's opinions and lives as dull and boring and meaningless, this somehow allows you to interact with others without anxiety? If that is what you mean, then I don't have much else to say (as you've probably already written me off as boring, dull, and tedious, etc.).

As a matter of personal opinion, I find the world, and people in the world, an endless source of wonder. Emotions color our perceptions of other people. Misanthropy is an extreme perspective, and I would venture it is based on sadness, hatred, frustration, and hopelessness. If these are your typical feelings, then that's fine -- there's nothing wrong with feeling whatever you feel. I suppose the question to ask isn't whether anyone else thinks there's anything wrong with your worldview (your misanthropy), but whether you think there is anything wrong with it. (And I don't mean "wrong" in the moral sense, but in a pragmatic way -- is this how you want to go about living your life? It really is up to you.)

[Alys]

Hating people doesn't help anything in the long run. Though it's difficult to apply all the time, I realize that my self worth doesn't depend on other people's opinions. That being said I love and care about all people; so when people are mean to me or whatever I'm actually more concerned that they felt the need to be that way than about the pain it caused me. This also takes the sting out of the pain.

[farleyknight]

Originally Posted by Alys

Hating people doesn't help anything in the long run. Though it's difficult to apply all the time, I realize that my self worth doesn't depend on other people's opinions. That being said I love and care about all people; so when people are mean to me or whatever I'm actually more concerned that they felt the need to be that way than about the pain it caused me. This also takes the sting out of the pain.

I tried this philosophy for a while.. You tend to build the perspective that other people are somehow hurting inside, leading to negative behavior towards others. And you'll be there to provide that help, thus making you important. But in reality, most people are stupid and irrational when they are emotional but can actually make intelligent decisions if the situation calls for it..

Really what blows this idea out of the water are those that are clearly in control and making the rules for their own gain. Or also for those people who break the rules of a competitive game in order to put themselves ahead at the expense of others. Lets face it, humans have evolved from animals, and animals are brutal. The only difference is, humans are good at deception while animals tend to be pretty honest.

Thus, when humans are purely out for personal gain and lend favors only for strategic short term goals, being a misanthrope actually make sense, because at least you don't feel bad when you adopt a similar set of behaviors.

[Witan]

Originally Posted by farleyknight

Lets face it, humans have evolved from animals, and animals are brutal. The only difference is, humans are good at deception while animals tend to be pretty honest.

QFT

The only thing that separates humans from animals is that we deceive and manipulate people before we **** them over, rather than just doing it straight out. One reason why animals are better than people.

[Alys]

Originally Posted by farleyknight

I tried this philosophy for a while.. You tend to build the perspective that other people are somehow hurting inside, leading to negative behavior towards others. And you'll be there to provide that help, thus making you important. But in reality, most people are stupid and irrational when they are emotional but can actually make intelligent decisions if the situation calls for it..

Really what blows this idea out of the water are those that are clearly in control and making the rules for their own gain. Or also for those people who break the rules of a competitive game in order to put themselves ahead at the expense of others. Lets face it, humans have evolved from animals, and animals are brutal. The only difference is, humans are good at deception while animals tend to be pretty honest.

Thus, when humans are purely out for personal gain and lend favors only for strategic short term goals, being a misanthrope actually make sense, because at least you don't feel bad when you adopt a similar set of behaviors.

I didn't really make myself clear enough. I don't hate people because hating people is wrong. It makes me upset to know that people choose to act cruel towards others when they don't have to..often they just do it out of selfishness. That being said, I've never met a perfectly secure, happy person that acted cruel towards others. As for your philosophy that it makes sense to be a misanthrope...haven't you ever heard the quote, "be the change you want to see in the world"? Hating others just perpetuates more hate...that can't be a solution.

[LesterKnox]

As a fellow misanthrope, I don't really find it does me any good. I don't really care what the nameless, faceless throng of ignorant rabble think EXCEPT what they think about me. I always find solipsism works in a pinch.

[Stu]

Ok here's the thing, this attitude will serve you well, BUT sometime in the future you will be alone. Your parents will be dead or old, any kids you may have had will have flown the coup and your long-suffering wife will have probably left you.

And once those who are obligated to maintain contact with you are gone, no-one will take their place. When you eventually have a heart attack while backing one out on the toilet, there'll probably only be two people attending the funeral service. The minister and you.

And that's how it goes.

I'm incredibly cynical, but every once in a while somebody will do or say something which will make me re-consider my stance on people in general. And then the moment will pass and I'll resume my hatred of people. It's like a security blanket.

[MisterJ25]

I agree, this does help with SA, because I am the same way now. It is funny, I am 25 and the closest people I relate to in pop culture are people like George Carlin and Larry David from curb your enthusiasm. I seem to have the same misanthropic and apathetic look at humanity that would be in the disposition of an old man. I think most people are boring and self absorbed, and I agree that humanity overall is on a very self-destructive path with all of the stupid things we do.

I can see all of this because I am not really connected with our species in any meaningful way. I guess I watched too much TV as a kid and see teh world as entertaining. I relate to George Carlin's philosophy of just being here on Earth to observe humanity's actions for entertainment. So that is what I do. If I see a fight break out, I see that as entertaining and I have very little concern for anyone's well being that I don't know on a personal level. I also stopped caring about what other people think. If I am the weird, quiet guy, I don't care. Because talking to some of my coworkers pains my brain how boring and long winded people can be when you aren't even pretending to care and you face the other direction to walk away and have to wait until they stop yammering so you can say "ok, I gotta go to work now." And in my type of job I don't even have to talk to anyone. I basically crunch numbers all day by counting merchandise at different retail stores. So when I do talk it is just to maintain the illusion that I am apart of the work force and not the odd man out.

And me typing this makes me realized how messed up I am in my head. How did I go from such a nice quiet kid to such a bitter as shole?

[wxolue]

Building resistance to SA based on feelings of superiority doesn't sound like a good idea to me. I'll admit that I try to build up in my mind that I am simply better than person A or person B, but I would never work these feelings into anything I say. I hope you do the same. Alienating yourself from society can really backlash against you in the future. Be careful.

[Alys]

i swear you guys are wrong..you are letting your bitterness get the best of you..as for people being boring...they are only boring if you see them that way..

[freshjive]

Originally Posted by Alys

i swear you guys are wrong..you are letting your bitterness get the best of you..as for people being boring...they are only boring if you see them that way..

+1. Bitter bitter people. People really arent that bad. Your inability to relate with other people causes you to "hate" them. Maybe if you went out with a positive attitude and a little less sensitive attitude people wouldnt be so bad.

People always tease each other, everybody does it, its normal. You've got to be able to accept it and deal with it.

You ever had a day where somebody said something to you and it barely bothered you and then another day somebody could say the exact same thing and you're freaking out? Its all about how YOU deal with the world. You want it to be a miserable, depressing place then you'll make it that way. You want it to be a fun, light hearted place then you'll make it that way too.

[LesterKnox]

Originally Posted by freshjive

+1. Bitter bitter people. People really arent that bad. Your inability to relate with other people causes you to "hate" them. Maybe if you went out with a positive attitude and a little less sensitive attitude people wouldnt be so bad.

People always tease each other, everybody does it, its normal. You've got to be able to accept it and deal with it.

You ever had a day where somebody said something to you and it barely bothered you and then another day somebody could say the exact same thing and you're freaking out? Its all about how YOU deal with the world. You want it to be a miserable, depressing place then you'll make it that way. You want it to be a fun, light hearted place then you'll make it that way too.

No offense, but judging from your posts in this forum, you don't sound like a person who has or ever has had SAD. (If that's true, then for Christ's sake please don't be offended.) Most of your posts are encouragement in the form of "Just Do It" (sorry Nike). As anyone with SAD can tell you these Just-Do-It voices are in our heads constantly and usually end with something like "Come on! Why can't you just do it, you stupid loser!" While your attitude is appreciated, at least for me, "Just Do It" has been nothing more than a self-esteem killer, because really, how could something so simple be so hard to do? There is a physiological component to SAD that can't be ignored and that CBT alone can't cure. The biggest benefit of CBT, I would think, is in helping one learn how to behave once one's brain is rewired. Sort of like finishing school for SAD sufferers.

[freshjive]

Originally Posted by LesterKnox

No offense, but judging from your posts in this forum, you don't sound like a person who has or ever has had SAD. (If that's true, then for Christ's sake please don't be offended.) Most of your posts are encouragement in the form of "Just Do It" (sorry Nike). As anyone with SAD can tell you these Just-Do-It voices are in our heads constantly and usually end with something like "Come on! Why can't you just do it, you stupid loser!" While your attitude is appreciated, at least for me, "Just Do It" has been nothing more than a self-esteem killer, because really, how could something so simple be so hard to do? There is a physiological component to SAD that can't be ignored and that CBT alone can't cure. The biggest benefit of CBT, I would think, is in helping one learn how to behave once one's brain is rewired. Sort of like finishing school for SAD sufferers.

I apologize if I come across as a little pushy but its been a huge relief for me to go out and do things that less than a year ago I considered impossible. I KNOW how bad SA can be and its robbed me of some of the best years of my life. Thats why I encourage people to go out and try things because locking yourself in your room afraid to do things is probably the worst thing you can do.

Again, I'll try and lay off of the "just do it" attitude but I really hate to see people suffering from SA and not reaching their full potential.

[rasberrykiwi]

I kinda get what you're saying Farleyknight. I think people adopt a perspective like yours because when you close your heart to others, it feels safer and it's like you're building a hard shell around you with those opinions like "Other people are not interesting", "human beings are deceitful" etc.

I have a shell myself. I don't let people get to know me or become close to me, and to a certain extent, i don't allow myself to make friends.

So..as someone who has one, I'm not convinced shells work as well as we want it to.

In other words, I agree with Alys.

All the truly happy people I've met in my life had a positive, caring and kind perspective towards others. Thus far, I haven't witnessed a single truly happy person with the opposite point of view.
But science is now confirming this observation as well. There are now serious, scientific researches that have been made that demonstrate (with a more high tech version of the mri machine) the power of kindness, compassion, and love to generate happiness in the brain. Really!

So anyway, I think that's the ultimate judge of whether a way of thinking is helpful or not, it's whether it makes you happy. Ultimately, you are the only one who can be the judge of that.

Personally, I think opening your heart and adopting a positive attitude towards others does make you more vulnerable. But I wonder.. if we close our hearts to others, maybe we close ourselves off to the good things of life as well.

[LesterKnox]

Originally Posted by freshjive

I apologize if I come across as a little pushy but its been a huge relief for me to go out and do things that less than a year ago I considered impossible. I KNOW how bad SA can be and its robbed me of some of the best years of my life. Thats why I encourage people to go out and try things because locking yourself in your room afraid to do things is probably the worst thing you can do.

Again, I'll try and lay off of the "just do it" attitude but I really hate to see people suffering from SA and not reaching their full potential.

Well then, I apologize in that you are a fellow sufferer, but at least for myself (and I really don't think I'm alone) that same little voice that tells me what a loser I am often attempts to encourage me (perhaps it's being sadistic) to do things by simply "doing them." That's the point of my condition; I can't bring myself to do the simplest of things at times (talk to strangers, handle my affairs on the telephone, etc., etc.). No offense intended. You just sounded like my little voice for a minute. Are you my little voice?

[kev]

Hey, whatever works. Anger is a powerful emotion and can even be a strong motivator. I think you are correct to say it is preferable to apathy. However, I've found that this technique of "hating humanity" works best when it is applied to general classes of people rather than any individuals. Everyone has their flaws, and you may regret your initial judgements of a certain individual if you get to know thier past and present situation better. Just my two cents.

You can hate ideas, but I would try to move away from the the idea of hating individual people. It can actually be a very freeing experience to be able to see the good and bad in people at the same time.