Sluggish Cognitive Tempo - Social Anxiety Forum
X

Download the SAS Android App

Or switch to mobile version of the forums

X

Download the SAS iPhone App

Or switch to mobile version of the forums

Help/FAQLog InJoin SAS
Go Back   Social Anxiety Forum > Recovery > Secondary Disorders

Reply
Old 07-23-2012, 07:02 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
Beamer's Avatar
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Indiana
Gender: Male
Age: 28
Posts: 199



Default Sluggish Cognitive Tempo

There's already a thread about SCT on here, but it appears to be overlooked and forgotten.

I'm pretty certain I have SCT and that it is linked pretty strongly to my SA. In fact, I'm beginning to think SCT might interfere with my ability to socialize more than anxiety does.

I think I tend to come across as dumb, clumsy, and boring to most people. I've always blamed anxiety for the fact that I could only act in a way that would cause people to feel this way about me. Thing is, I have been doing very well with the anxiety component of my social inhibition recently, but I'm still only able to act mostly normal and feel fairly confident in social situations on rare occasions. Most of the time I'm seriously so "dumb" that I simply can't think clearly enough to really participate in a conversation.

I'm also severely unmotivated, and even though I want and need to start being a responsible adult, I seriously can't even force myself to do things a lot of times. My mind refuses to cooperate.

I had a mysterious break in my SA for about a week and a half (up until about two days ago). I also felt very motivated and was able to enjoy things, rather than just feeling like I'm trudging through life because that's all there is to do. It vanished just as unexpectedly as it appeared.

I also find that depressants, typically the "magic bullet" for SA, or at least as close to one as exists, help me very little if at all, and sometimes make my SA even worse by making me depressed. Even large amounts of alcohol help me only slightly. My SA seems to respond much better to drugs and supplements that increase dopamine levels (though simultaneous dopamine and gaba action helps even more). Though I didn't really understand it at the time, SSRIs mostly killed my anxiety, but made the SCT worse, which is why I thought they were working at first but gave them up when I realized I wasn't significantly improving.

Does anyone else deal with this? Have you found anything that helps?
Beamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2012, 06:41 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
Beamer's Avatar
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Indiana
Gender: Male
Age: 28
Posts: 199



Default

Are people afraid to associate themselves with this disorder because of the name? I would have guessed that SCT was an attempt to create an official, politically correct medical diagnosis for stupidity if I only heard the name. That's not what it is, though! It's basically an underrecognized form of attention deficit disorder. Those who seek help for this or related problems are often diagnosed with primarily inattentive ADD (I was).

...Or is there really almost nobody here who can relate?
Beamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 10:32 AM   #3 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6



Default

Hey

I just found out about this last week. I also suffer from social anxiety but now i'm sure its secondry and SCT is the route of all my problems. I'm sure there will be loads of people with SA that have this disorder or undiagnosed ADHD-Inatentive.

I live in the uk and i'm currently trying to find out the best treatment for this, i watched a video with Russell Barkley ( 22mins in onwards http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3d1SwUXMc0 ) speaking about SCT, and he mentions Concerta as a treatment.

Can totally relate to everything your saying in your posts.
alan78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 08:59 AM   #4 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 3



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alan78 View Post
Can totally relate to everything your saying in your posts.
Idem.

Over the years I have come to realize that the anxiety is actually only a secondary problem for me, what troubles me much more are the SCT symptoms. I have never brought these symtptoms up before to a psychologist, but today for the first time I did to a new one. He didn't seem to know what SCT is, but after hearing out my whole story he decided to direct me to a psychiatrist for an extensive examination. I hope the psychiatrist will make the right diagnosis and recommend something working.
Mecnun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2012, 12:43 AM   #5 (permalink)
 
Beamer's Avatar
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Indiana
Gender: Male
Age: 28
Posts: 199



Default

He says in the video that stimulants haven't shown much promise for helping this issue. He also says that the study only used concerta (ritalin). I read an article that made the same claim about ritalin, but also said that adderal in small doses has been found to help significantly. This fits with my own (very limited) experience with prescription stimulants.

I was prescribed guanfacine awhile back, and that was a mixed bag. If you're not familiar, it activates a specific type of norepinephrine receptor that is most highly concentrated in the prefrontal cortex. The activation of all these norepinephrine receptors causes the body to react by reducing the amount of norepinephrine in your system. As a result, guanfacine acts like a stimulant in your prefrontal cortex while having an, erm... anti-stimulant? effect everywhere else in your body. The result is essentially a drug that helps with some of the main issues inherent in ADD but with side effects that are almost completely the opposite (lethargy, low heart rate/blood pressure, sexual dysfunction, increased appetite, etc).

My memory and focus problems dissolved, and I felt significantly calmer around people. It also made me more tired and lethargic, however, and while it did enable me to force myself to get things done most of the time, it actually reduced my ability to really feel motivated. I eventually chose not to stick with it because it lessened my ability to feel pleasure and enjoy things similarly to, but not as dramatically as, SSRIs.
Beamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2012, 06:58 AM   #6 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 6



Default

Hey, i would say SCT is definatly the cause of all my problems. Was just watching that youtube clip again and the medication he seems to mention is Strattera, i think i will speak to my GP and see if this is available in UK. Fingers crossed and if so i will keep you guys posted.

Will have to check out what the side affects are, thats the only thing about meds, i was on seroxat for years and it helped me greatly, but the sexual side effects are horrible. If that doesnt bother you though its a med that worked wonders for me. I stopped taking it though and when i tried to go back on it afew years later it never had the same affect on me sadly.

I also have my final appointment with a psychologist on monday, she knows about my add but i'm going to tell her about SCT. I am also going to ask her about Strattera, its a nightmare trying to get recognition here in the uk, the health service are years behind when it comes to ADD. Will let you know how i get on.
alan78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 10:12 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
Beamer's Avatar
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Indiana
Gender: Male
Age: 28
Posts: 199



Default

Sorry for resurrecting a dead thread, but I wanted to bring something up for the few other people on here struggling with this.

First of all... I'm not sure if I have SCT or not. I was smoking weed pretty heavily when I started this thread, which kinda makes me an idiot since marijuana is obviously going to induce some SCT-like symptoms.

Even so - and this is the main thing I want to bring up - I started taking DMAE while I was still smoking to combat the supposed SCT. It has its unpleasant side effects, but the benefits far outweigh them, to the point that I'm still taking it and don't plan to stop any time soon. I had significant benefits even while I was still smoking weed.

I stopped smoking about a month ago when I moved back to Indiana, and felt in some ways like my SCT/ADHD:PI converted into something closer to the traditional form of ADHD.

I forgot to take my DMAE one day, and couldn't figure out why my short-term and working memory seemed to die on me. I drove to Barnes and Noble that day just to chill and bum their free wifi, but I ended up taking a lot of detours since I kept forgetting where I was going. When I got there, I got out of the car and was actually looking at the building and couldn't remember why I'd come there, or if that was where I even intended to be.

I eventually realized I forgot to take my daily DMAE. I took an extra large dose the next morning and felt incredibly sharp all day. It really seems to help a lot with all of the symptoms I've associated with SCT. The only reason I don't see it as some kind of amazing cure is that I still have some trouble feeling motivated, though not as much as before I started taking it.

I highly recommend trying DMAE if you're still struggling with SCT. If you're curious, it works by converting to acetylcholine in your body. The side effects can include some sore, stiff muscles, especially in the neck and shoulders. It also raises blood pressure and makes your heart beat harder, but unlike traditional norepinephrine and dopamine-based medications typically used for ADD, it should, in theory at least, slow your heart rate down. The most annoying side effect for me has been cramps in my fingers. Sometimes they get locked and I have to stretch and massage them a bit to regain control over them. Honestly, I see it as a small price to pay in light of the benefits.
Beamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 10:28 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
Status: unsure
Join Date: Aug 2012
Gender: Male
Age: 17
Posts: 166



Default

Same exact situation, didn't know it could be diagnosable as some sort of condition, interesting.
ihatemoving is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 10:53 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
Noca's Avatar
 
Status: Spectacular Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ontario
Gender: Male
Age: 28
Posts: 18,779



Default

Sluggish cognitive skills can be a direct result of low testosterone levels. I have struggled with my cognition in the last few years, as a result my ADD doc just mindlessly tried to treat the symptoms by giving me amphetamines. Of course if you never treat the cause, it only gets worse and worse. I eventually figured out on my own(no help from dumbass ADD doc of course), that my testosterone levels were at an all time low at the age of (now 26). Replacing these takes time, but I am confident that once my T levels are back to nominal levels, my cognition problems will be resolved, in addition to an ENTIRE SLEW of other symptoms.

When dumbass doctors were in charge, they would mindlessly try and treat my symptoms instead of trying to isolate the cause, ie. giving me up to 11 different trials of anti-depressants, none of which would curb my depressive spiral. I figured out that testosterone is required for the production of serotonin, so what is the point of trying to re-uptake serotonin if there is nothing there??

You have to work your way UP the stream of your symptoms till you can isolate the cause, rather then trying to treat all the resulting deltas of symptoms down river!
__________________
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."”
--Isaac Asimov

Note: majority of typos are from posting on my phone
Noca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 10:56 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
Beamer's Avatar
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Indiana
Gender: Male
Age: 28
Posts: 199



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noca View Post
Sluggish cognitive skills can be a direct result of low testosterone levels. I have struggled with my cognition in the last few years, as a result my ADD doc just mindlessly tried to treat the symptoms by giving me amphetamines. Of course if you never treat the cause, it only gets worse and worse. I eventually figured out on my own(no help from dumbass ADD doc of course), that my testosterone levels were at an all time low at the age of (now 26). Replacing these takes time, but I am confident that once my T levels are back to nominal levels, my cognition problems will be resolved, in addition to an ENTIRE SLEW of other symptoms.

When dumbass doctors were in charge, they would mindlessly try and treat my symptoms instead of trying to isolate the cause, ie. giving me up to 11 different trials of anti-depressants, none of which would curb my depressive spiral. I figured out that testosterone is required for the production of serotonin, so what is the point of trying to re-uptake serotonin if there is nothing there??

You have to work your way UP the stream of your symptoms till you can isolate the cause, rather then trying to treat all the resulting deltas of symptoms down river!
How did you figure out that you have low testosterone without a doctor? Don't you need a blood test for that, and therefore a doctor?

I've been curious if this might be a problem for me as well, but I don't have health insurance or a job or money, and I'm not about to drop money I don't have on some OTC testosterone boosters when I don't even know for sure that that's the problem.
Beamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 05:36 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 122



Default

Noca: what type of trt protocol are you on right now (amount and frequency of use)?

Beamer: you wouldn't use a testosterone booster, you'd wanna use bio-identical hormone replacement.. ie testosterone cypionate or something of the like
NateDEEzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 05:52 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 122



Default

Also Noca, how long have you been on the treatment, and are you noticing any positive changes with anything yet? please either keep us updated on your progress or start your own thread to document this, as this is very interesting- I too have long suspected my anxiety problems along with a whole host of other things to be related to low testosterone and am currently trying to get treated for it
NateDEEzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 07:31 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
Noca's Avatar
 
Status: Spectacular Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ontario
Gender: Male
Age: 28
Posts: 18,779



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer View Post
How did you figure out that you have low testosterone without a doctor? Don't you need a blood test for that, and therefore a doctor?

I've been curious if this might be a problem for me as well, but I don't have health insurance or a job or money, and I'm not about to drop money I don't have on some OTC testosterone boosters when I don't even know for sure that that's the problem.
I didn't need the doctor's idea, simply his pen to the blood test requisition form.
__________________
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."”
--Isaac Asimov

Note: majority of typos are from posting on my phone
Noca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 07:36 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
Noca's Avatar
 
Status: Spectacular Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ontario
Gender: Male
Age: 28
Posts: 18,779



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NateDEEzy View Post
Also Noca, how long have you been on the treatment, and are you noticing any positive changes with anything yet? please either keep us updated on your progress or start your own thread to document this, as this is very interesting- I too have long suspected my anxiety problems along with a whole host of other things to be related to low testosterone and am currently trying to get treated for it
I am on androgel 1% @ 5.0g qd. I have been on it for 1.5 months, prior to that I was on Injections of Delatestryl 300mg q ~ 2 weeks since January. I still experience hot flashes, but not quite as much fatigue. My depression has improved DRASTICALLY, and my generalized anxiety is mostly gone, but SA is still there related to how I perceive my physical appearance. My appetite is also up, but body mass is down. My T levels have improved but are still very low.
__________________
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."”
--Isaac Asimov

Note: majority of typos are from posting on my phone
Noca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 07:50 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 122



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noca View Post
I am on androgel 1% @ 5.0g qd. I have been on it for 1.5 months, prior to that I was on Injections of Delatestryl 300mg q ~ 2 weeks since January. I still experience hot flashes, but not quite as much fatigue. My depression has improved DRASTICALLY, and my generalized anxiety is mostly gone, but SA is still there related to how I perceive my physical appearance. My appetite is also up, but body mass is down. My T levels have improved but are still very low.
Thanks for responding!! Did you ever consider doing more frequent injections at a lower dose, say approx 100-150mg testosterone cypionate E5d's? I've done over 2 years research on this but I recently found out that you can inject testosterone SubQ instead of intramuscularly. If you go on Dr. Crisler's website (a well known TRT doctor) he said there's always been speculation as to whether or not this was possible, and actually sat back while other doctors tested it for a while, and eventually they found that it works, which is great bc you can pin more frequently without having to poke so many holes into your muscle. In fact, the Dr. Crisler uses this method himself as he demonstrates in the video he posted. Additionally, did you ever take hcg or an aromatase inhibitor (AI)? It appears the cutting edge treatment involves injection T (once a week being the longest between injections), hcg (which prevents your body from shutting down its natural production, resulting in higher levels using smaller doses of T) and an AI (which keeps estrogen in check, bc too high estrogen or too low estrogen result in feeling sh**ty). I'm glad the androgel is helping, but if it is not doing what you hoped it would, I would highly recommend looking in to a protocol similar to what I mentioned.

Either way, best of luck, I hope you continue to feel better and better!!
NateDEEzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2012, 07:52 PM   #16 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 122



Default

Opps I forgot to mention, the hot flashes might be due to elevated estrogen levels, have you had E2 measured during any of your recent blood tests?
NateDEEzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 01:04 AM   #17 (permalink)
 
Beamer's Avatar
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Indiana
Gender: Male
Age: 28
Posts: 199



Default

I'm a little weary of this idea of hormone augmentation... Isn't it conceivable that replacing testosterone unnaturally would cause your body to stop producing what little it makes over time?

Surely there is some cause for abnormally low testosterone levels? I doubt it just happens for no reason whatsoever. Wouldn't it make more sense to address the cause of the problem rather than trying to indirectly compensate for it?
Beamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 08:55 AM   #18 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 122



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer View Post
I'm a little weary of this idea of hormone augmentation... Isn't it conceivable that replacing testosterone unnaturally would cause your body to stop producing what little it makes over time?

Surely there is some cause for abnormally low testosterone levels? I doubt it just happens for no reason whatsoever. Wouldn't it make more sense to address the cause of the problem rather than trying to indirectly compensate for it?
The thing is, ur already augmenting your hormones whether u know it or not via all the environmental estrogens we all consume in our food and in our water every day. The same environmental estrogens that scientists found are turning male fish into females, and causes the male populations sperm count to continually drop and be approx half or less than that of a man in the 1950's, watch the documentary 'the disappearing male' and you'll see what all I'm talking about. So its kinda like ur already on hormone replacement in the form of additional estrogen which is not good for men.

Additionally, yes introducing exogenous testosterone will lower natural production, but 2 things, this is what hcg is used for (it acts to prevent this) and also as you get older, your levels naturally drop, so that coupled with a lifetime of excess estrogens introduced to your body, it really wouldn't even do much good to worry about natural shutdown cuz ur natural levels are already shot anyway. And living with low t posts many more health risks than supplementing and raising t to healthy levels. Anyway, even if replacement t were dangerous, which if u do it right, its not and would actually likely extend life rather than shorten it, but even if it did shorten life, id trade living 5 or 10 less years and feel great and be excited for life than live the extra 10, all along the way feeling shi**y and not enjoying my life.
NateDEEzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 10:10 AM   #19 (permalink)
 
Robert Paulson's Avatar
 
Status: Super Modaretor
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Rhode Island
Gender: Male
Age: 22
Posts: 466



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beamer View Post
I'm a little weary of this idea of hormone augmentation... Isn't it conceivable that replacing testosterone unnaturally would cause your body to stop producing what little it makes over time?

Surely there is some cause for abnormally low testosterone levels? I doubt it just happens for no reason whatsoever. Wouldn't it make more sense to address the cause of the problem rather than trying to indirectly compensate for it?
It could be a medical condition. Like with type I diabetes, they can't make insulin, so they have to inject it daily. Or thyroid conditions. But yeah I get what you're saying though. The only question is, what is the cause? Its not always easy to figure out. I'm sure there's cases where hitting the gym and eating right is all you need, for others more drastic measures somteims iror rya
Robert Paulson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2012, 01:42 PM   #20 (permalink)
 
Noca's Avatar
 
Status: Spectacular Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ontario
Gender: Male
Age: 28
Posts: 18,779



Default

Taking hCG(human chorionic gonadotropin) in addition to hormone replacement will keep the body producing its own testosterone in addition to the HRT. Also, the increased risk of prostate cancer is only due to having TOO much testosterone added, which can be avoided if you just have your levels monitored.

The disease where the body has a chronic endocrine deficiency is called Addison's disease.
__________________
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."”
--Isaac Asimov

Note: majority of typos are from posting on my phone
Noca is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sluggish cognitive tempo, Could this link to some SAD cases? jeremynd Secondary Disorders 9 08-14-2012 10:54 PM
cognitive gozinsky Coping With Social Anxiety 0 12-05-2009 01:58 PM
cognitive restructuring buzzkill87 Coping With Social Anxiety 2 02-18-2009 12:17 AM
Cognitive Therapy sbelle Therapy 7 02-02-2009 09:30 PM

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:37 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® ©2000-2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc. User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.