How to find out if I have Aspergers or not? - Page 2 - Social Anxiety Forum
X

Download the SAS Android App

Or switch to mobile version of the forums

X

Download the SAS iPhone App

Or switch to mobile version of the forums

Help/FAQLog InJoin SAS
Go Back   Social Anxiety Forum > Recovery > Secondary Disorders

Reply
Old 01-04-2010, 12:01 PM   #21 (permalink)
 
odd_one_out's Avatar
 
Status: Your Assumptions
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 7,027



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by james25 View Post
What kinds of questions do the the AQ and EQ ask?
You can take the AQ and the EQ online.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squizzy View Post
That is my experience with autism
Interesting. But if you've met one autistic you've met one autistic.
odd_one_out is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2010, 12:55 PM   #22 (permalink)
 
britisharrow's Avatar
 
Status: 3rd SAS Battalion
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Glasgow, UK
Gender: Male
Age: 28
Posts: 875



Default

There are many misconceptions about autism. As someone with Aspergers I'd like to just say that the idea of having a special interest isn't universal or common in the way you may think. This at the lower end of the functioning sprectum do have intense interests, but mines is an ability to learn foreign languages incredibly fast.

Having a particular talent or not having a specific interest are only one factor in a wider diagnostic criteria. Very few people on here will have Aspergers and to be honest it's not something you want, I know that many of you are searching that the diagnosis that clicks. But when I left the appointment after having been told I was autistic, I was the same person I was when I walked in.

There is no autism medication, and the psychotherapy is pretty much mainstream. All you can do if you have it is attend post-diagnostic awareness groups, local support groups, and read up on it as much as you can. Getting over social anxiety will still be there, the diagnosis of autism will not change that.
britisharrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2010, 01:20 PM   #23 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New York, NY
Gender: Male
Posts: 262



Default

Seems like the EQ/AQ test for a few different traits:

Capacity for empathizing with others
Level of introversion
Perceived social ability
Proclivity for abstract thinking of a certain kind (fascination with dates, numbers, a particular narrow interest)
Tendency to stick to routines
james25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2010, 01:22 PM   #24 (permalink)
 
odd_one_out's Avatar
 
Status: Your Assumptions
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 7,027



Default

On special interests, Attwood (in The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome) mentions the percentage of children and adults who fulfill other Asperger's criteria but not the special interest one ranges from 5 to 15% (and provides references).

I thought that services for mental health conditions were bad enough but when it came to accessing any for Asperger's they were nonexistent.
odd_one_out is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2010, 01:27 PM   #25 (permalink)
 
Status: Yes
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Greater Toronto Area
Gender: Male
Age: 27
Posts: 1,760



Default

I always have way too much difficulty with those self-rating tests, and I think I probably sometimes give opposite answers to the exact same questions. I'm not very in-tune with myself, constantly second guessing everything and unsure whether I'm answering the question realistically or grossly distorted by my own misperceptions. Plus, I'm a bit of a walking contradiction and a lot of the time I can see these questions' intent, and know how I would rate it to the letter of the question, but it's often for reasons or causes that the tests don't anticipate, and sometimes completely opposite to the SPIRIT of the question.

I scored very low on that AQ (non-aspergers), and on the very low end of "average" on the EQ test. Whereas another EQ test had me scored so low I was in the 0.13th percentile... absolutely insane.

In high school though I did a lot of stuff with autistic kids and was even a counselor for a few summers at an overnight summer camp that largely dealt with autistic kids. I have nothing for respect for them... but you seem to be trying to paint them with an unreasonably broad brush, to a larger degree than even the foremost experts such as Baron-Cohen. There must be at least one thing common to all autistics to really consider it as a diagnosis or even a spectrum, and with pretty much all the autistic kids I've worked with, there really is quite a chasm. I think perhaps your efforts might be better spent to that end (in order to help undiagnosed ASDers get a better sense of it) rather than dismissing some rather justifiable, even if stereotypical, traits. There are so many differences between SA and ASDs, the lines aren't as blurred as people seem to try and make it out to be, and it seems like it's often just a matter of denial regarding specific deficits that are pretty plainly observed.

I was even sent to a expert myself for diagnosis of such a developmental disorder because my particular case is so incredibly convoluted. One hour was all it really took for him to absolutely rule it out, and he helped me see why, as I was quite confused about it all myself at the time. After another hour-long appointment he reached a very strong conclusion of predominately-inattentive ADHD complicated by various psychiatric disorders, already diagnosed for the most part (depression, generalized/social anxiety, and in particular avoidant personality disorder.) I only bring it up because it's rather interesting. There are definitely neurologic comminalities between ADHD (especially inattentive), and social anxiety. There is also an increasing awareness of some very strong threads shared between ADHD and ASDs that experts are only recently coming to recognize.

Unfortunately, psychology/psychiatry isn't much of an exact science, especially when it comes to the actual application of diagnosing people. Many of these labels are really just for the sake of convenience than anything else. Particularly when multiple diagnoses come into the mix, things can get confusing, even in areas of medicine where they are based primarily on physical findings. And while doctors or psychologists, even those specializing in the area, can't hand out perfectly accurate diagnoses, they are much better suited to do so than people self-diagnosing themselves, with Asperger's (and ADHD) probably being the disorder MOST OFTEN incorrectly self-diagnosed.

There's always the chance that a doctor will be incorrect, but even on this off-chance, it's usually due to the fact that the disorder is at worst only minimally impairing daily function, in which case the diagnosis wouldn't hugely helpful to begin with, especially in adulthood. General life/social/occupational/coping skills can be taught and worked on, but beyond that, the big step (mostly with adults and older kids), is just learning to accept that you have this problem, which is why I feel self-diagnosis can be particularly disastrous because there's a strong chance you're overlooking something which CAN be better helped. So when it comes to ASDs, I don't feel it's wise to even weakly encourage self-diagnosis. Yes, you know yourself better than whatever specialist you happen to be seeing, but it's doubtful one really has as much understanding of the disorder, and an unbiased outside perspective is hugely important as well.

I guess I wouldn't be so concerned about it if there weren't so many people looking to an Asperger's diagnosis as an easy way of explaining their difficulties while largely removing any responsibility on their part to work to fix it. Perhaps this is even somewhat fueled by the whole culture built around ASDs as well, who really try to turn their problem into a point of pride (the term "neurotypical" drives me nuts... as if people don't have other neurological differences and disorders). This isn't an issue with people who genuinely have an ASD, it's part of the whole acceptance thing, but it's not healthy if these problems are something that can otherwise be helped. Fixing these other issues can be a lot of the work and that's why I refer self-diagnosing Asperger's as being "an easy way."
meyaj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2010, 01:30 PM   #26 (permalink)
 
odd_one_out's Avatar
 
Status: Your Assumptions
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 7,027



Default

The AQ measures 5 domains of interest: social, communication, imagination, attention to detail, and attention-switching.

The EQ has not been studied enough using other clinical populations (e.g., those with anxiety disorders), so the EQ researchers do not know how these groups would score. Several psych conditions are thought to affect empathy and it's advised that the EQ, when used as a screening instrument, be used at least in conjunction with the autism spectrum quotient (AQ). This is because high scores on the AQ may well be specific to autism and not other conditions.

The EQ researchers mention that it's unlikely such instruments can distinguish between temporary states of low empathy and innately low empathy. Another drawback is that a person's view of their own empathy may be inaccurate and someone who knows them well might answer the questions differently.
odd_one_out is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2010, 02:04 PM   #27 (permalink)
 
odd_one_out's Avatar
 
Status: Your Assumptions
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 7,027



Default

I hold a different opinion on self-diagnosis, especially after going through the system and experiencing how hard it was to get my diagnosis. There really is no other option than self-diagnosis for many adults due to financial limitations, concerns about the effect of a diagnosis on things like insurance, and lack of access to specialists experienced in diagnosing adults. There is also much incompetence in the field of adult diagnosis, which I have also experienced. Many professionals misdiagnose and access to autism ones can be very difficult. It's an extremely widespread (worldwide) problem. I was also a participant in a study investigating the difficulties accessing adult diagnostic and other autism services here. The Department of Health recently published the results of a large scale survey on access to adult ASD diagnostic and support services and the results were dire.

I have read numerous stories and discussions by the self-diagnosed and think it grossly unfair to automatically dismiss them and confuse them with the ones who do not responsibly self-identify or do their research.


More on high-functioning subtypes - Active-but-odd is only one of several AS/HFA subgroups found by Lorna Wing. She found several manifestations of the AS/HFA social impairment.

I took notes on each from Wing's chapter in High-Functioning Individuals with Autism, as follows.

Aloof
Most frequent subtype among the lower functioning. Most high-functioning in this group are a mixture of aloof and passive. Limited language use. Copes with life using autistic routines. Most are recognised in childhood. Independence is difficult to achieve. There may be loneliness and sadness beneath the aloofness. Rain Man is an excellent example of this subgroup.

Passive
Often amiable, gentle, and easily led. Those passive rather than aloof from infancy may fit AS. More likely than the aloof to have had a mainstream education, and their psych skill profiles are less uneven. Social approaches passively accepted (little response or show of feelings). Characteristic autistic egocentricity less obvious in this group than in others. Activities are limitied and repetitive, but less so than other autistics. Can react with unexpected anger or distress. Recognition of their autism depends more on observing the absence of the social and creative aspects of normal development than the presence of positive abnormalities. The general amenability is an advantage in work, and they are reliable, but sometimes their passivity and naivete can cause great problems. If undiagnosed, parents and teachers may be disappointed they cannot keep a job at the level predicted from their schoolwork.

Active-but-odd
Can fall in any of the other groups in early childhood. Some show early developmental course of Kanner's, some show AS. Some have the characteristic picture of higher visuospatial abilities, others have better verbal scores (mainly due to wide vocabulary and memory for facts). May be specific learning disorders (e.g., numerical). School placement often difficult. They show social naivete, odd, persistent approaches to others, and are uncooperative in uninteresting tasks. Diagnosis often missed. Tend to look at people too long and hard. Circumscribed interests in subjects are common.

Stilted
Few, if any clues to the underlying subtle handicap upon first meeting. The features of AS are particularly frequent. Early histories vary. Normal range of ability with some peaks of performance. Polite and conventional. Manage well at work. Sometimes pompous and long-winded style of speech. Problems arise in family relationships, where spontaneity and empathy are required. Poor judgement as to the relative importance of different demands on their time. Characteristically pursue interests to the exclusion of everything and everyone else. May have temper tantrums or aggression if routine broken at home, but are polite at work. Diagnosis very often missed. Most attend mainstream schools. Independence achieved in most cases. This group shades into the eccentric end of normality.
odd_one_out is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2010, 02:42 PM   #28 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New York, NY
Gender: Male
Posts: 262



Default

I feel like I could easily qualify as a stilted HFA person. I've never had a temper tantrum, though.

But if you have no trouble empathizing with others, and you can identify their emotions by looking at their faces, then shouldn't treatment for SA work for you?
james25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2010, 10:59 PM   #29 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Victoria, Australia
Gender: Female
Age: 28
Posts: 407



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by odd_one_out View Post

Stilted
Few, if any clues to the underlying subtle handicap upon first meeting. The features of AS are particularly frequent. Early histories vary. Normal range of ability with some peaks of performance. Polite and conventional. Manage well at work. Sometimes pompous and long-winded style of speech. Problems arise in family relationships, where spontaneity and empathy are required. Poor judgement as to the relative importance of different demands on their time. Characteristically pursue interests to the exclusion of everything and everyone else. May have temper tantrums or aggression if routine broken at home, but are polite at work. Diagnosis very often missed. Most attend mainstream schools. Independence achieved in most cases. This group shades into the eccentric end of normality.
This sounds a lot like my dad.
Smitten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 11:16 AM   #30 (permalink)
 
Fuzzy Logic's Avatar
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: United Kingdom, Northern Ireland
Gender: Male
Age: 27
Posts: 654



Default

I scored 27 on that AQ thing, which is scary, but since the threshold is 32 I'm pretty sure I am perfectly healthy.
Fuzzy Logic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 11:32 AM   #31 (permalink)
 
laura024's Avatar
 
Status: Fall 7 times, stand up 8.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ohio
Gender: Female
Age: 22
Posts: 8,919



Default

I got 41 on the AQ test and 63 (1st percentile) on the EQ one. I don't think I have Asperger's though, because I don't display all of the signs.
__________________
ask.fm
laura024 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 01:24 PM   #32 (permalink)
 
odd_one_out's Avatar
 
Status: Your Assumptions
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 7,027



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by james25 View Post
But if you have no trouble empathizing with others, and you can identify their emotions by looking at their faces, then shouldn't treatment for SA work for you?
Assuming your social cognition is in the normal range (for instance, there are no developmental disorders present such Asperger's) it's still not necessarily the case that SAD treatments will work. Although SAD is quite treatable there are many factors present and possible causes of the condition, influencing treatment outcome.

But if there are social cognition deficits that have always been present they can range from subtle to severe and may not be detectable via simple tests such as Reading the Mind in the Eyes. Dziobek et al. 2006 (Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders 36, 623-636) designed a movie to test social cognition (asking subjects about characters' thoughts, feelings, and intentions) in Asperger's subjects with high IQs because previous studies had shown some simpler tests failed to detect deficits in those of higher intellect.

Social anxiety and avoidance are not unreasonable in those who have underlying social cognition deficits. But since these deficits range from mild to severe, those with relatively mild deficits who have anxiety that is out of proportion to the skills they do have could benefit from a social anxiety diagnosis and treatment.


Some information on empathy and AS

Empathy is difficult to define but is described as consisting of a cognitive component and an emotional component.

For instance, the cognitive component involves the ability to detect when someone is sad, angry, or distressed. The emotional component involves experiencing an appropriate emotional response to others' emotions such as feeling sad when imagining what a friend is going through.

In Asperger's certain information processing deficits impede the cognitive component of empathy. The EQ researchers point out that the EQ does not measure the cognitive and emotional components of empathy separately, and when subjects in the original study were interviewed they reported a desire to avoid upsetting others and feeling remorse when their lack of understanding causes upset.

Deficits in the cognitive component of empathy (such as not noticing someone is distressed) understandably impede the emotional component of empathy. But when given the appropriate information, people with Asperger's can then have an appropriate emotional response and show desire to correct any errors.

There is preliminary evidence found by Rogers et al. 2007 (Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders, 37(4), 709-715) that although adults with AS score lower than controls on cognitive empathy there are no group differences on scores of empathic concern (implying those with AS are in general just as caring).
odd_one_out is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 03:44 PM   #33 (permalink)
 
Mello's Avatar
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Rotterdam
Gender: Female
Age: 22
Posts: 236



Default

I scored 27 on the test. I was diagnosed with autism PDD-NOS, but I don't think I have it, sometimes I do lack empathy but theres always a part of me that feels sorry. I do get intensely interested in certain subjects but not to the extend as AS or autistic people do. Sometimes I just really don't know who I am anymore, or what I have, and I really just want closure, thats why i'm going to see a real psychologist.
Mello is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2010, 09:27 PM   #34 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New York, NY
Gender: Male
Posts: 262



Default

Quote:
Assuming your social cognition is in the normal range . . .
Thanks for taking the time to post that. I'm going to come back and take a look at this again in a couple of weeks, when I can read more about the movie-based social cognition test and the prognosis for people with limited cognitive empathy.
james25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2010, 04:07 AM   #35 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Victoria, Australia
Gender: Female
Age: 28
Posts: 407



Default

delete
Smitten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2010, 05:06 AM   #36 (permalink)
 
epril's Avatar
 
Status: sa challenger
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: arizona
Gender: Female
Age: 49
Posts: 5,071



Default

I scored a 25 on the eyes test. I looked at each picture before I chose an answer, and half the time my choice wasn't even there, so I picked one that was similar.

A.Q.-25 E.Q.-19. Wow, that is low. I am surprised.

I have a daughter dx'ed with Aspergers, and the other one with PDDNOS. Again, as far a perseverances go, my girls will persevere for a year or two, or more, on one subject. One of their subjects is Broadway musicals. They do NOT like to talk about themselves; it is very painful, difficult..it takes so much effort to do so. When other kids are socializing and learning about each other, they'd rather know if you saw Phantom, read the books, seen the play, know when the next Phantom is coming out..etc. If you're not into Phantom, or one of their other preferred subjects, the conversation will end very quickly. They're just so uncomfortable being 'real'. As they get older, they are better, but seem awkward with conversation.
__________________
"Don't worry. You're just as sane as I am."
epril is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2010, 12:44 PM   #37 (permalink)
 
odd_one_out's Avatar
 
Status: Your Assumptions
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 7,027



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mello
Sometimes I just really don't know who I am anymore, or what I have, and I really just want closure, thats why i'm going to see a real psychologist.
What type of professional diagnosed you? I understand very well about not knowing who you are and wanting closure. I found this very difficult to obtain and even after diagnosis you can get other professionals doubting it and/or diagnosing something extra.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LaRibbon View Post
But I read somewhere some researchers think ASD and ADD/ADHD are on the same spectrum. I'm not surprised that there is so much misdiagnosing going on, the research on all these disorders is kind of a mess.
There is a large overlap between autism and ADHD, which can make differential diagnosis hard. Same with anxiety disorders. I am stunned at the incompetence I have encountered and heard about regarding diagnosis of these conditions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by james25 View Post
Thanks for taking the time to post that. I'm going to come back and take a look at this again in a couple of weeks, when I can read more about the movie-based social cognition test and the prognosis for people with limited cognitive empathy.
There is also relatively recent evidence for some subtle social cognition deficits in children with social anxiety disorder. This implies that assistance in this area, not just reducing anxiety symptoms, could be beneficial.

There are no movie-based social cognition tests available to the public as far as I know.


Quote:
Originally Posted by epril View Post
I have a daughter dx'ed with Aspergers, and the other one with PDDNOS. Again, as far a perseverances go, my girls will persevere for a year or two, or more, on one subject. One of their subjects is Broadway musicals. They do NOT like to talk about themselves; it is very painful, difficult..it takes so much effort to do so. When other kids are socializing and learning about each other, they'd rather know if you saw Phantom, read the books, seen the play, know when the next Phantom is coming out..etc. If you're not into Phantom, or one of their other preferred subjects, the conversation will end very quickly. They're just so uncomfortable being 'real'. As they get older, they are better, but seem awkward with conversation.
I remember rarely conversing with my parents. They just let me get on with my own thing all day and did not pay me much attention. When did your daughters first exhibit special interests?

My mother only started to worry when I was approaching adulthood and was still interested in playing and space/Star Trek, and had no interest in socialising or going anywhere. She could not handle it and would be quite emotionally abusive and was neglectful.
odd_one_out is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 03:09 PM   #38 (permalink)
 
PHD in Ebonics's Avatar
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 569



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by odd_one_out View Post
You can take the AQ and the EQ online.
I scored a 19 on the AQ and a 50 on the EQ. What does that mean?
PHD in Ebonics is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 04:01 PM   #39 (permalink)
 
odd_one_out's Avatar
 
Status: Your Assumptions
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 7,027



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychedelic Breakfast View Post
I scored a 19 on the AQ and a 50 on the EQ. What does that mean?
All it means is that you did not score within the autism range as determined by the score cut-offs. It does not provide a diagnosis or rule one out - 80% of those diagnosed with the condition score at or above 32 on the AQ, but so do 2% of controls.

32 was chosen as the cut-off because it minimised false positives (the 2% figure) without creating too many false negatives.
odd_one_out is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2010, 04:54 PM   #40 (permalink)
 
Lumiere's Avatar
 
Status: learning...
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: London
Gender: Male
Age: 32
Posts: 663



Default

AQ = 37
EQ = 21

Whenever I take tests like these I end up with scores that suggest I have AS, but I've always put that down to my SA influencing the result. I've never really exhibited any of the marked symptoms associated with AS.
__________________
"How strange it is to be anything at all"
Lumiere is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aspergers? El Skeggso Coping With Social Anxiety 6 02-25-2010 10:53 AM
aspergers causes SA arth77 Secondary Disorders 0 07-09-2009 11:17 AM
SA and Aspergers Indy Secondary Disorders 6 04-28-2009 06:13 PM
I think my ex may have aspergers Holz Secondary Disorders 10 06-20-2008 09:53 AM
dOES ANYONE KNOW THEY HAVE ASPERGERS Jess Secondary Disorders 14 12-03-2005 12:31 PM

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:41 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® ©2000-2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.