Avpd

[milo001]

i'm not sure if most peoples with social anxiety will have AVPD.but i sure have.i always avoided going out from my house and being in crowded places.i tried to avoid going out with my college acquintaces.i'm sure it's not agoraphobia because what i scared of is the peoples.i feel more relax when i'm walking my dog at nite.my AVPD is really bad.anyone have AVPD as well?

[blueblizzard]

I think that AvPD and SA are pretty much the same. There sure is a hell of a lot of overlap. I think that the people that revise the DSM might merge the two disorders into one category when the next revision comes out.

[tim78]

I definitely have it. I pretty much avoid anything social, but if it's something that I don't feel is social like going to a concert with my brother or something it doesn't bother me. I wish I knew what to do about it.

[BlueBamboo]

I once thought I had it, back when I started researching psychology things, and I even had a therapist bring it up as a possibility in conversation. But I haven't really thought about it since then and I kind of feel like it's a bit of a useless definition, it's really just kind of a specific sort of reaction to a severe form of anxiety. I don't think that qualifies it as its own disorder. I never liked the term "personality disorder" anyway - makes it sound like your personality is "wrong" and that it's an unchangeable condition.

[milo001]

i agree avpd and sad symptoms quite the same.but i don't every one who have SAD'll avoid almost every social situations.the are scared and nervous but still they dare face it.

[meyaj]

Originally Posted by milo001

i agree avpd and sad symptoms quite the same.but i don't every one who have SAD'll avoid almost every social situations.the are scared and nervous but still they dare face it.

Personally I think it really just boils down to the degree of the anxiety.

In my opinion, the overlap is huge, and it's made even more confusing by the very different definitions and treatments of an AXIS I anxiety disorder vs an AXIS II personality disorder.

I'm also of the opinion that there is a lot of overlap between social anxiety and "atypical depression."

I'm really looking forward to seeing the changes in DSM-V. One of the changes I really think needs to be made is the separation of inattentive ADHD from the rest of ADHD. It doesn't even make sense to have a hyperactivity disorder WITHOUT hyperactivity - the hyperactive and inattentive subtypes are so different that I really feel they should be considered different disorders.

But there's a lot of controversy surrounding the DSM-V and the people working on it, so right now there's no telling how definitive a resource it will become.

BTW I've been diagnosed with all 4 disorders I've mentioned here (ADHD being predominately inattentive.) In fact, there's so much overlap in the biochemical causes of ADHD and social anxiety - primarily deficiencies in dopamine binding - that it's surprising we don't see a much high incidence of people with one disorder being diagnosed with the other.

[secretlyshecries]

Pretty damn sure I do, yeah. I'm generally very avoidant of people and it used to confuse me when I'd even want to avoid my friends. What 'normal' person wouldn't want to hang out with their friends? I understood more when I learned what the disorder was.

[wishiwasinvisible]

Yes, I'm positive I have AvPD...From what I can gather, it is basically just a more severe form of social anxiety...Alot of people may have SA in certain situations, or may avoid a few things because of SA, but they will generally still be able to 'function', for the most part...Whereas people with AvPD tend to avoid a wide range of situations, leaving them very isolated & severely impacting on their ability to form relationships, hold down a job, complete studies and integrate into society very much at all...It is a complete avoidance of 'people' and anything social altogether...

I am only speaking from personal experience here, please don't take this for 'gospel' Just my opinion, after years of therapy & information given to me from my psychiatrist...

[belfort]

the bummer about AVPD is that if you have it, you have it for life...there is no cure for it, you just have to deal with it...

[meyaj]

Originally Posted by belfort

the bummer about AVPD is that if you have it, you have it for life...there is no cure for it, you just have to deal with it...

Like any personality disorder it's deeply ingrained as a part of you, but just because it can't be cured doesn't mean you can't kick its ***

[Tau Sin]

Originally Posted by meyaj

Like any personality disorder it's deeply ingrained as a part of you, but just because it can't be cured doesn't mean you can't kick its ***

True, Avoidant Personality Disorder is a learned behavior and thus it can be unlearned.

Personally I believe I have it, it sucks.

[meyaj]

Originally Posted by Tau Sin

True, Avoidant Personality Disorder is a learned behavior and thus it can be unlearned.

Personally I believe I have it, it sucks.

You should see a shrink and get it confirmed. Way too many people with SA/AvPD self-diagnose because they're too afraid of admitting their problems to another person.

[meyaj]

As for AvPD being a more severe form of social anxiety... no, not at all.

Social anxiety is classified in the current DSM as an Axis I disorder, and medication is usually a large part of the strategy of dealing with Axis I disorders, as there is thought to be a biochemical basis in a lot of the cases.

Personality disorders are classified as Axis II, and although it's most obvious in social situations with AvPD, it's pretty pervasive in everything you could potentially do. Axis II disorders are generally thought to be abnormal personalities (compared to the society one is a part of), that are basically composed of thoughts and behaviors that impair one's ability to function appropriately. Medication usually isn't indicated here... you can't really change a person's core personality with meds. This is why Axis II disorders are for the most part supposed to be treated with psychotherapy.

They are different beasts altogether, but they often go hand-in-hand which is why a multi-faceted approach is pretty much necessary to see any real improvement. They can both be pervasive to the point of disabling, but it's silly to call one more severe than the other.

[shadowmask]

I'm certain I have this, although I've never been professionally diagnosed. Avoidance of people and most social situations has been my main coping strategy for my entire life.

[belfort]

AVPD is not a learned behavior, where did you get that from?/from most research on the subject, it is most genetic coupled with environment factors..you cannot unlearn something like AVPD...read up on some avpds, they have basically accepted their lot in life eventhough that isnt to say they havent tried to change...

[Tau Sin]

Originally Posted by belfort

AVPD is not a learned behavior, where did you get that from?/from most research on the subject, it is most genetic coupled with environment factors..you cannot unlearn something like AVPD...read up on some avpds, they have basically accepted their lot in life eventhough that isnt to say they havent tried to change...

It "can" be caused by genetics but it's possible that there are multiple sources that can play a role in it becoming developed, but that's also a good point to touch on. Genetics don't equal destiny. Case-in-point, four siblings born into a family that is predisposed to Alcoholism but none of them become alcoholics.

[meyaj]

Originally Posted by belfort

AVPD is not a learned behavior, where did you get that from?/from most research on the subject, it is most genetic coupled with environment factors..you cannot unlearn something like AVPD...read up on some avpds, they have basically accepted their lot in life eventhough that isnt to say they havent tried to change...

There is a much larger genetic component to personality than people realize, but the "environment factors" you speak of are, for the most part, synonymous with learned behaviors.

This is the kind of stuff you grow up with as a kid though. You're not suddenly struck with AvPD in your mid-40's, for example. So this personality "disorder" of yours is really the only way of thinking and behaving that you know. You can't really unlearn it (can you really unlearn anything?), but it is definitely possible to work with a therapist in developing coping strategies to compensate for the disorder.

You're right, it's really something that you'll always have to deal with for the rest of your live, but using that as a rationale to resign yourself to being a victim is NOT going to do you any good. It takes a LOT of work, but people CAN learn to exert some level of control over their personality disorder.

[blueblizzard]

Originally Posted by belfort

the bummer about AVPD is that if you have it, you have it for life...there is no cure for it, you just have to deal with it...

****

[Gen Eric]

From what I understand about AvPD and SAD, the difference lies in how far into the relationship one begins to feel anxious. The primary issue for SADers is going out and meeting new people, going on dates, and generally people they they don't know. However most SADers don't have problems once they do get to know and person and vice versa.

I think with AvPD its the other way around. AvPDer won't have any problem going out to parties, going on dates and being social, but they'll begin to feel anxious once people get to know them a little. Relationships will cumble within a few dates, friendship will never progress too far past the aquaintance phase.

I think where this difference comes from is the belief structures behind the two disorders. SAD people seem to like their 'real selves', but are self-conscious about more superficial qualities such as appearance, wittiness, style, whether they feel they are 'exciting' enough, etc etc etc. With AvPD, I believe they think those qualities are fine, but there's some very big problem with their true selves that people won't accept, thus they prevent any relationship from progressing far enough for people to find out.

There's obviously a lot of room for crossover and I think the two disorders are generally regarded as 'sister disorders'. However, I think that the majority of the confusion comes from the fact that SAD (and AvPD) is characterized by avoidance behavior, which is simply avoiding the thing that makes you fearful or anxious.

But avoidance behavior does not equal AvPD, a point which can be best illustrated by the fact that people with phobias demonstrate avoidance behavior as well. They will avoid snakes, planes, spiders, public places, snow, dogs, water, social situations, or close relationships. Judging by what people have posted in this forum thusfar, I would speculate that most people are talking about the avoidance behavior symptom of SAD, not AvPD.

Interestingly and frustrationgly enough, the avoidance factor of all of these disorders is what makes them so hard to treat. You hold theories about yourself that con't be falsified because you never test them. Also, its considered a 'negative' symptom, meaning a lack of. This is why medication is generally ineffective. Medication is great for killing your positive symptoms (increased heart rate, BP, etc) but it can't make you exhibit something that you wouldn't normally exhibit (ie sociablility).

[Gen Eric]

To add a little something, they also theorize that SAD, and I would imagine AvPD as well operates on a combination of classical and operant conditioning.

For those of us who don't know, classical conditioning is when a stimulus elicits a response, and operant conditioning is when a behavior is displayed to elicit a particular consequence. Classical is passive, and the behavior comes after. Operant is active, and the behavior comes before.

So in the two-factor model of SAD an individual is exposed to a neutral stimulus (party for example) and an unconditioned stimulus (made fun of while at said party), which evokes an unconditioned response (embarrassment). This individual then pairs the neutral stimulus and the response so that in their mind party=embarrassment. This is the classical conditioning portion of the model.

Then Operant conditioning kicks in. In order to avoid embarrassment, the individual will stop going to parties. The avoidance behavior is negatively reinforced by the reward of not being embarrassed, and the behavior is strengthened. On and on the cycle goes.

Once the individual does decide to ignore the operant conditioning urge and go into a social setting, the classical will kick back in and the conditioned response of anxiety will present.

All this operates on a very primal, subconscious level and has nothing to do with ones belief systems. This is yet another reason why SAD is so hard to treat. It exists on the same level that not wanting to touch a hot stove does.

Another FUNFACT: There's a part of the brain called the anterior cingulate cortex that lights up when experiencing physical pain, and when experiencing social rejection. What this means is that neurologically, experiencing social rejection is the same as physical pain