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Old 06-01-2013, 05:35 PM   #101 (permalink)
 
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I haven't read through this thread but this SHOULD be an open and shut case.

George Zimmerman is NOT A POLICE OFFICER. He had no right to follow Trayvon Martin. Period. He was told not to follow and to stay in his car. He was told that neighborhood patrol are not to carry guns (because they are not cops). A young kid is dead because George Zimmerman totally ignored these warnings.

Trayvon Martin is dead because George Zimmerman's wanted to play police. Now Zimmerman should face the consequences.
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Old 06-01-2013, 08:11 PM   #102 (permalink)
 
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It's not against the law to follow someone. Zimmerman had a concealed carry permit. He was not ordered by police not to follow Martin. Unless the prosecution has some witness we don't know about there is no way to refute Zimmerman's story that Martin attacked him and he had to shoot in self defense. It stinks that he is going to get away with murder.
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Old 06-01-2013, 09:11 PM   #103 (permalink)
 
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This nonsense has been going on for over a year and people can't see the media is using this case to manipulate them?

This one little insignificant case should not be a big deal and yet it is. Why? Because someone has an agenda. It's that damn simple.
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Old 06-01-2013, 10:33 PM   #104 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by scarpia View Post
It's not against the law to follow someone. Zimmerman had a concealed carry permit. He was not ordered by police not to follow Martin. Unless the prosecution has some witness we don't know about there is no way to refute Zimmerman's story that Martin attacked him and he had to shoot in self defense. It stinks that he is going to get away with murder.
It's not against the law to do many reckless and dangerous things. It's reckless and dangerous to play police officer. You shouldn't follow and confront suspects. You're not trained or equipped to do that.

It is possible that Zimmerman felt his life was in danger. But he is the one who put himself in that situation by playing police officer. It turns out he was following an innocent kid. Trayvon wasn't breaking into any homes. He was just walking home. How do we know Trayvon wasn't fighting for his life after some stranger followed him and pulled a gun on him?

If someone dies because you decided to play police you should go to jail.
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Old 06-02-2013, 06:29 AM   #105 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by lonelyjew View Post
In Florida Zimmerman had legal right to legally carry a concealed firearm, and Florida common law allows for civilians to pursue and detain people who they've witnessed, or have reasonable suspicion that, the person committed a felony (eg breaking and entering). Now, Zimmerman's suspicion stretches "reasonable" past the breaking point imo, but it is still worth pointing out that he wasn't doing anything that out of the ordinary, and that his initial actions were not overtly illegal in any way. As to the police saying "we don't need you to do that," that wasn't an order, nor would that order be legally binding.
Nice. Martin had legal right to legally carry a concealed firearm too. And Florida common law allows for civilians to shoot people who threaten their well being (ie chase them around in the middle of the night).
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but it is still worth pointing out that he wasn't doing anything that out of the ordinary, and that his initial actions were not overtly illegal in any way.
Nor was Martin.
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As to the police saying "we don't need you to do that," that wasn't an order, nor would that order be legally binding.
Are you a lawyer? A jury can make it legally binding.


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Maybe a light *** kicking would have been justifiable, but it wasn't just an "*** kicking" anymore after Martin got on top of Zimmerman, and started SMASHING HIS HEAD INTO CONCRETE.
Zimmerman apparently wasn't unconscious. Maybe it wasn't as serious as you're making it out to be. When you're defending yourself in the heat of the moment sometimes it can be difficult to decipher light from heavy.



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So what? I doubt any normal person is happy about Martin getting shot, however had he cracked Zimmerman's skull open, and splattered his brains all over the sidewalk, before he got the shot off how the hell would you feel about it? I suppose Martin would have been in the right then, because an overzealous do-gooder who's misguided attempt to stop a potential robber obviously deserves to die or suffer mental disability for a stupid decision.
Actually, according to Florida's stand your ground law, he would.
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Old 06-02-2013, 10:24 AM   #106 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by scarpia View Post
It's not against the law to follow someone.
It is against the law to murder someone, and not all murder is the same. That's why we have 1st, 2nd, and manslaughter.
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Zimmerman had a concealed carry permit.
So?
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He was not ordered by police not to follow Martin.
He was ordered by the dispatcher not to follow. That will be used in the trial. Even if he followed him after being ordered by police it still wouldn't be against the law. But again, it will be used in a court of law.
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Unless the prosecution has some witness we don't know about there is no way to refute Zimmerman's story that Martin attacked him and he had to shoot in self defense.
Sure it is. It's the fact that people don't always tell the truth, and common sense is supposed to be part of the jurors ability to determine justice.
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It stinks that he is going to get away with murder.
He might. He might not. Didn't know you were psychic though .
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Old 06-02-2013, 10:49 AM   #107 (permalink)
 
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No, what he'll say is that he was on the ground, having his head smashed on concrete, and feared for his life, and that a reasonable person would have also feared for their lives in that situation (not stand your ground, because he couldn't exactly flee while laying on the ground with someone on top of him).
Prosecution: "And why, Mr Zimmerman, were you stalking the dead teenager in the middle of the night? Were you looking for a confrontation? Were you looking to use that pistol of yours. Do you think Mr Martin was in fear for his life with you following him in the middle of the night? Is that why you were attacked?

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Following Martin was not cause for Martin to break Zimmerman's nose, or to smash his head into the ground, however having his head smashed into the ground was cause for Zimmerman to defend himself. Now, did Martin throw the first punch? Nobody knows, and that's where that evidence will come into play. That seed of doubt is critical if Zimmerman wants to get off, and reasonable doubt is all that is required of him.
Martin is dead. I think the threat of Zimmerman following him was pretty real.
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Old 06-02-2013, 11:36 AM   #108 (permalink)
 
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Martin is dead. I think the threat of Zimmerman following him was pretty real.
Exactly. Zimmerman is the aggressor. He's stalking someone at night with a gun. Can you imagine walking home at night and having someone following you? That's scary. It's very reasonable for Martin to try and defend himself. How does Martin know that this guy is not some serial killer?

You can't be the aggressor, start a fight and then shoot someone claiming self-defense.

And if you play police, ignore the community patrol's guidelines about carrying guns, ignore the 911 operator's instructions to stay in your car and you get someone killed you are responsible.
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Old 06-02-2013, 11:53 AM   #109 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by PickleNose View Post
This nonsense has been going on for over a year and people can't see the media is using this case to manipulate them?

This one little insignificant case should not be a big deal and yet it is. Why? Because someone has an agenda. It's that damn simple.

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Old 06-02-2013, 11:55 AM   #110 (permalink)
 
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i never liked StarTrek (to be honest i detest it...). Still that was a funny (and ambiguous) quote from it.

PickleNose might have been referring to something like a (New) World Order (or he might have not, don't know much about his views), but still the video was funny
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Old 06-02-2013, 12:40 PM   #111 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by AngelClare View Post
Exactly. Zimmerman is the aggressor. He's stalking someone at night with a gun. Can you imagine walking home at night and having someone following you? That's scary. It's very reasonable for Martin to try and defend himself. How does Martin know that this guy is not some serial killer?

You can't be the aggressor, start a fight and then shoot someone claiming self-defense.

And if you play police, ignore the community patrol's guidelines about carrying guns, ignore the 911 operator's instructions to stay in your car and you get someone killed you are responsible.
Yet none of the evidence seems to be that Zimmerman started a physical confrontation. I wil make it simple we at least have an idea of his intent, clue it's the reason he called the police being suspicious and wanting police to come and only getting out of the car to follow when he loses sight doesn't sound like someone who actually wante a confrontation. If he truly was an aggressor he wouldn't have called the police and would of confronted him earlier.

I'm wondering how many people are wanting to ignore Zimmerman's injuries. If you have a weapon out common sense suggests that you don't let yourself be physically attacked.More likely he wasn't holding the gun. No laws were broken by Zimmerman in following are people suggesting that physical violence is the right and legal way to respond but self defense is terrible. Also if his whole plan was to confront him why would he inform the police before, not do it earlier and let himself be attacked. Not one bit of the story suggests he wanted to start a fight you would have to ignore all the lead up and that an armed man has injuries that likely wouldn't of happened if he had gun in hand at confrontation.In before Zimmerman is a cold blooded killer who purposely took a couple of hits so he could make excuses on why he killed that innocent young man
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Old 06-02-2013, 05:15 PM   #112 (permalink)
 
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Yet none of the evidence seems to be that Zimmerman started a physical confrontation.
All evidence points to him starting the confrontation, be it physical or not.
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I wil make it simple we at least have an idea of his intent, clue it's the reason he called the police being suspicious and wanting police to come and only getting out of the car to follow when he loses sight doesn't sound like someone who actually wante a confrontation. If he truly was an aggressor he wouldn't have called the police and would of confronted him earlier.
It's a good alibi. If I call the police then I can claim I was attempting to do everything legally all the while knowing first hand I wanted to handle the situation myself.

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I'm wondering how many people are wanting to ignore Zimmerman's injuries.
Not ignoring his injuries. However, I am following the timeline which suggests those injuries wouldn't have occurred if he did things the right way.
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Old 06-02-2013, 07:22 PM   #113 (permalink)
 
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Yet none of the evidence seems to be that Zimmerman started a physical confrontation.
Stalking someone at night is an act of aggression. We know Trayvon was on his way home. He had no reason to just randomly attack Zimmerman. If he did attack Zimmerman it's because Zimmerman was following him.

You are overlooking how scary it would be to have a man following you at night.

Finally, it's not the job of neighborhood watch to follow suspects. They are not even supposed to carry guns. This whole mess is exactly why they tell neighborhood watch not to carry guns and not to call the police if they see anything.

Zimmerman's NEGLIGENCE led to Trayvon's death. Period.
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Old 06-02-2013, 09:39 PM   #114 (permalink)
 
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And in other relevant news, I always thought William Shatner's lips look like he's getting ready to say "spider".
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Old 06-02-2013, 09:45 PM   #115 (permalink)
 
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Common sense would indicate that killing a kid (even if had stolen something or smoked bongs in the past) should be punishable by jail. Someone's life outweighs whatever the hell Zimmerman thought Martin was up to. He should not have followed him and confronted him and he should not have shot him. He was not a professional and it wasn't inside his property. If he had done what he was instructed to do, a kid would be alive and he would not be facing murder charges. What a dumbass.
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Old 06-03-2013, 12:02 AM   #116 (permalink)
 
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And in other relevant news, I always thought William Shatner's lips look like he's getting ready to say "spider".


Nothing to do with the thread in any way, shape or form: I love your avatar....Kevin Spacey is awesome. American Beauty is one of my favorite all time movies.
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Old 06-06-2013, 06:57 AM   #117 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by AngelClare View Post
I haven't read through this thread but this SHOULD be an open and shut case.

George Zimmerman is NOT A POLICE OFFICER. He had no right to follow Trayvon Martin. Period. He was told not to follow and to stay in his car. He was told that neighborhood patrol are not to carry guns (because they are not cops). A young kid is dead because George Zimmerman totally ignored these warnings.

Trayvon Martin is dead because George Zimmerman's wanted to play police. Now Zimmerman should face the consequences.
So the kid who slammed his head into the ground and generally *****ed him up is innocent.

The prosecution knows Martin has a questionable history of acting out and selling drugs. The judge in the case has prohibited any information regarding his past even though it is relevant due the reason Zimmerman called police in the first place.

2nd degree murder? No.
Manslaughter? Yes.
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Old 06-06-2013, 08:56 AM   #118 (permalink)
 
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So the kid who slammed his head into the ground and generally *****ed him up is innocent.

The prosecution knows Martin has a questionable history of acting out and selling drugs. The judge in the case has prohibited any information regarding his past even though it is relevant due the reason Zimmerman called police in the first place.

2nd degree murder? No.
Manslaughter? Yes.
I agree it's manslaughter but his past is not relevant.

Martin was walking on his way home. He had no motive to attack Zimmerman. Zimmerman had a gun and was following him. Zimmerman believed Martin was a burglar. You have a gun and you're following someone you suspect is a burglar I find it hard to believe that you don't have your hand on your gun.

If you're face-to-face with a black guy who is bigger than you and who you believe is a burglar aren't you going to pull out your gun? Of course you are. It would be crazy to do otherwise. If you're Martin some guy who is following you has a gun you're going to attack him in self defense. Wouldn't you?

Keep in mind in the 911 transcript Zimmerman says that Martin "is running." Why is Martin running if he's not afraid of Zimmerman? Martin also says that he is following him. So we know that Martin is running and Zimmerman is CHASING him.

I don't see how Martin's past is relevant here.

If they had charged Zimmerman with manslaughter at the start this whole mess wouldn't be in the news.
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Old 06-06-2013, 12:34 PM   #119 (permalink)
 
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Stalking someone at night is an act of aggression. We know Trayvon was on his way home. He had no reason to just randomly attack Zimmerman. If he did attack Zimmerman it's because Zimmerman was following him.
Maybe. I don't know what the law in Florida is though. From wiki:

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According to a 2002 report by the National Center for Victims of Crime, "Virtually any unwanted contact between two people [that intends] to directly or indirectly communicates a threat or places the victim in fear can be considered stalking"although in practice the legal standard is usually somewhat stricter.
However wiki does not say what the legal standard is. It seems like an awfully low bar on an act of aggression to me. Maybe it's because I know so many paranoid people who think they are being followed when they are not. You could just turn around and punch someone in the face if they happened to be walking down the street in back of you for several blocks in that case. Couldn't you?
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Old 06-06-2013, 01:46 PM   #120 (permalink)
 
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You could just turn around and punch someone in the face if they happened to be walking down the street in back of you for several blocks in that case. Couldn't you?
But in this case Zimmerman is CHASING Martin. I think you can turn around and punch a stranger who is chasing you at night on your way home.

Doesn't Martin have a right to defend himself from an armed stranger chasing him for an unknown reason?
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