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Old 07-22-2011, 09:57 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Default Should people be forced to buy health insurance?

I saw this come up in the constitution change thread. I thought it should have its own thread. I live in a state where we have to buy automobile insurance and I haven't seen people freaking out over that. So what's the big deal about having to buy some kind of health insurance?
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Old 07-22-2011, 10:03 AM   #2 (permalink)
 
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You don't have to buy automobile insurance if you don't drive. I haven't driven since 04 so I haven't paid any insurance since then.

And obviously no. You shouldn't be forced to buy insurance unless you believe it's fine if they force you to buy a house or a car or if they tell you what to buy at the grocery store.

And people don't freak out over the car insurance thing because most people are too stupid to realize a car insurance mandate leads to other mandates. Just as the health insurance mandate won't be the last mandate if it stands. The fact that the car insurance mandate is being used to justify the health insurance one proves the health insurance mandate will be used to justify the next one that comes along. Where will it end? It'll never end until people get pissed off and tired of being bullied and insist that it ends here.
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Old 07-22-2011, 11:31 AM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Obama went about the insurance mandate the wrong way. It probably is, word for word, against the constitution. All he had to do was let the Bush tax cuts expire and attempt to change medicare for elderly people into a medicare for all. Medicare does a fine job considering they're covering the riskiest people in the country. Imagine how good the program would be if the pool was filled with healthy people.
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Old 07-22-2011, 11:55 AM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Obama went about the insurance mandate the wrong way. It probably is, word for word, against the constitution. All he had to do was let the Bush tax cuts expire and attempt to change medicare for elderly people into a medicare for all. Medicare does a fine job considering they're covering the riskiest people in the country. Imagine how good the program would be if the pool was filled with healthy people.
I agree. In my opinion, we should have had single payer health care, and health insurance should not be a for-profit endeavor. The problem is Obama has to deal with the Congress and could never have gotten enough votes for single payer. I don't really want to go into the whole who's to blame thing. (I know who I think is to blame, but that's beside the point.)

But, if we had single payer, we wouldn't be forced to buy health insurance. That's how it should have gone down. But, due to our political system and the people who don't want the single payer, we're forced into this mandate "compromise" which nobody likes really, except the insurance companies. But, the choice was to give up 2 years worth of work or try to do something to make sure everybody has access to adequate health care. This is what we got. I don't really like it either, and I'm not sure I would agree that we should be forced to buy it. It's unfortunately the byproduct of having two very strong diametrically opposed ideas of how society should function.
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Old 07-22-2011, 12:38 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by KeithB72 View Post
I agree. In my opinion, we should have had single payer health care, and health insurance should not be a for-profit endeavor. The problem is Obama has to deal with the Congress and could never have gotten enough votes for single payer. I don't really want to go into the whole who's to blame thing. (I know who I think is to blame, but that's beside the point.)
No. That's not true. The problem is that Obama promised something he had no intentions of delivering. In plain English, he lied. He planned the mandate from the beginning but lied about it in the debates because he knew he would lose the election if he told America he was going to force us all to buy insurance.

This country made it 200 years without Obamacare. It was not necessary. It was forced on us. Plain and simple.

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But, if we had single payer, we wouldn't be forced to buy health insurance.
If Obama hadn't put the mandate in his bill like he said he wouldn't, we wouldn't be forced to buy health insurance.

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But, due to our political system and the people who don't want the single payer, we're forced into this mandate "compromise" which nobody likes really, except the insurance companies.
So I guess it would be better if we just had a dictator, right? This is where it always seems to go with you folks. "Well, they're not cooperating and letting us do what we want so we'll beat them over the head with mandatory cooperation until they give up and beg us for relief".

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But, the choice was to give up 2 years worth of work or try to do something to make sure everybody has access to adequate health care.
You have a right to eat. Which means you should be required to spend 500 dollars a week at the grocery store. How's that for the next mandate? You don't have a right to be homeless even if you like that lifestyle. How many wandering hippies would have been (and still would be) infuriated by a mandate to buy a house?

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This is what we got. I don't really like it either, and I'm not sure I would agree that we should be forced to buy it. It's unfortunately the byproduct of having two very strong diametrically opposed ideas of how society should function.
I hope you like it better when they come up with a truly diabolical mandate that you really hate. OK, I lied. I hope you hate it as much as I hate this and you spend every day for 4 years agonizing over the fact that there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.
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Old 07-22-2011, 01:01 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Old 07-22-2011, 01:11 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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I don't see how it's any different from being forced to pay for wars, or the other plethora of taxes that I don't approve of.

At least I'm physically getting the benefits from this.
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Old 07-22-2011, 01:23 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
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What makes me mad the government gave the insurance companies what they want. Now everyone that doesn't have insurance will have to fork their money over to them money grubbers. The government isn't worried about you me, they are worried about how they can cater to the corporations.
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Old 07-22-2011, 01:30 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Charizard View Post
I don't see how it's any different from being forced to pay for wars, or the other plethora of taxes that I don't approve of.

At least I'm physically getting the benefits from this.
Agreed. I don't see the big deal about this?

I don't like what Obama has done in the past few weeks, but he started off as a good president.
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Old 07-22-2011, 01:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Or the government could provide free health care to everyone in the country. Maybe use some of the $685.1 billion that they spent on "national defense" last year for other causes like health care and improving public education.
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Old 07-22-2011, 02:15 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by PickleNose View Post
You don't have to buy automobile insurance if you don't drive. I haven't driven since 04 so I haven't paid any insurance since then.
.
I guess if you never get sick and never use the health care system that would be a good analogy. But most people get sick at some point. If you need an appendectomy and can't afford it should they just let you die?
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Old 07-22-2011, 02:18 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Health insurance is a mandatory requirement here in Massachusetts. When I wasn't working I got it free from the state but when I got my job nearly 3 months ago they cut me off of it. And I'm only making $1.50 more than the minimum wage, and annually I'll be making less than $20K yet I was disqualified to get free healthcare insurance.

If you make more than $30K a year then I think you should buy/pay for health insurance yourself but anything less than that then you should be able to get free from the state. I'm already giving away nearly 17%(fed- 8%, med-1.5%, SS-4.2%, MA(state)-3.1%) of my paycheck and then I still have to buy my own health insurance so in total it's about 23.5%, almost a quarter of my paycheck taken away.
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Old 07-22-2011, 02:36 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
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Health insurance is a mandatory requirement here in Massachusetts. When I wasn't working I got it free from the state but when I got my job nearly 3 months ago they cut me off of it. And I'm only making $1.50 more than the minimum wage, and annually I'll be making less than $20K yet I was disqualified to get free healthcare insurance.

If you make more than $30K a year then I think you should buy/pay for health insurance yourself but anything less than that then you should be able to get free from the state. I'm already giving away nearly 17%(fed- 8%, med-1.5%, SS-4.2%, MA(state)-3.1%) of my paycheck and then I still have to buy my own health insurance so in total it's about 23.5%, almost a quarter of my paycheck taken away.
Ouch. I was wondering how that woked. If you don't buy insurance do they garnish your wages or something? People making less money should pay less in insurance.
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Old 07-22-2011, 03:09 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Ouch. I was wondering how that woked. If you don't buy insurance do they garnish your wages or something? People making less money should pay less in insurance.
if i refuse the health insurance offer from my company then i'll get penalized and fined for not having health insurance. plus, i won't be able to claim any state tax refunds without Mass health insurance either.

i went to the state's medicare/healthcare agency and tried to see if i can still get free healthcare but i guess in their eyes $1.50 more than the minimum wage is too much to qualify.
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Old 07-22-2011, 03:15 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
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No, healthcare should be provided free by the state, in any developed nation.
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Old 07-22-2011, 03:54 PM   #16 (permalink)
 
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I believe those below a certain income should be able obtain free medical healthcare. Those who can afford it, should be the ones paying for it.

I like how children get free care, but whos going to feed and house the children when the parents get ill, or worse a single parent working two jobs for minimum.

Stop buying missles for warships and give it to save lives instead of finding ways to end them.
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Old 07-22-2011, 04:18 PM   #17 (permalink)
 
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if we are forced to buy health insurance thats less money we'll have when we're forced to buy war. if we dont wage war THEN WHAT?!
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Old 07-22-2011, 04:56 PM   #18 (permalink)
 
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What makes me mad the government gave the insurance companies what they want. Now everyone that doesn't have insurance will have to fork their money over to them money grubbers. The government isn't worried about you me, they are worried about how they can cater to the corporations.
I thought there strict limits on how much insurance companies can charge versus how much they spend... The insurance companies survived, which is more than what most Democrats would have wanted.

It is the moderate Republican idea that you get private companies to handle the risk of large amounts of people requiring lots of care (and money).

The biggest problem is it doesn't do anything to improve efficiency, promote people leading healthier lifestyles, or giving freedom from worrying about being able to get the care you need.

It does close a lot of loopholes that companies like Wal-Mart were using to get around paying for their employees healthcare. And it fixes the problem of healthy 20-30 year olds trying to get ahead by being cheap and irresponsible by letting the taxpayers pick up the whole bill if they do get a large medical bill.

People shouldn't be forced to 'buy' health insurance, but they should have access to whatever healthcare they need if they try and stay healthy at no cost but some taxes... (If people are healthy, their taxes will go down, if they aren't then they will pay a little more. But preventative medicine and preventing communicable diseases are free)
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Old 07-22-2011, 05:01 PM   #19 (permalink)
 
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Every other industrialized country seems to think it's pretty great, this whole "not dying because I can't afford health care" thing.

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I don't see how it's any different from being forced to pay for wars, or the other plethora of taxes that I don't approve of.

At least I'm physically getting the benefits from this.
Exactly. Why wasn't there this much resistance when they wanted to use taxpayer money to remove the health benefits from hundreds of thousands of people by putting bombs on them?

First thing on monday morning, I think I'm going to make a doctor's appointment. Just for the hell of it.
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:09 PM   #20 (permalink)
 
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No, healthcare should be provided free by the state, in any developed nation.
Oh no we can't do that. We have to go around the world attacking everyone so the oil companies can rape and pillage. We have to use the money to buy all those shiney new military toys.
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