Prison rape - Social Anxiety Forum
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post #1 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 11:29 PM Thread Starter
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Prison rape

I have heard that prison rape was described as "problem without solution". But they seem to overlook a rather obvious solution IF they wanted to solve it: that is, make prison rape illegal, punishable with more time in prison comparable to the time in prison one would get for rape elsewhere. And also, since it is a lot harder to hide from guards in prison than it is from cops outside, no one would even dream of raping someone undetected. Problem solved.

On the other hand, perhaps they DON"T WANT to solve the prison rape problem because they feel that rape is part of a punishment for their crime. If so, then why are they saying "problem without solution" instead of "problem that we don't want to solve"? Maybe its "without solution" in a sense that part of the punishment is that they can't present ABOVE-DESCRIBED solution, so they claim there is no OTHER solution? But then why not say it? Why pretend that it is "without solution altogether" when it isn't?

By the way, speaking of "rape being part of the punishment" it is rather interesting that it happens to be the case in all prisons all across the world, despite the fact that their attitude towards rape or homosexuality outside is vastly different from country to country. Have anyone ever wondered about it?

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post #2 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 12:18 AM
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Do you have any source on it not being illegal?

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post #3 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 12:36 AM Thread Starter
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Do you have any source on it not being illegal?
Simple: the fact that prison rape occurs. I mean, from legal point of view, one should get many years in jail for rape. I don't know how many years, but lets make a random guess: 5 years. Alright, so suppose they are in jail for robbery for which they got 1 year. So if they rape someone once, their time should increase to 6 years, rape someone the second time, it would increase to 11 years, and so forth. Well this would be quite a deterrant from rape, wouldn't it? So the fact that rape occurs shows that they don't increase their time for it. The natural question is: why not? If rape outside of prison is being punished by 5 year sentence, why can't rape inside the prison be also punished by 5 year sentence? I thought that should have been common sense?

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post #4 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 12:38 AM
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Simple: the fact that prison rape occurs.
That's not how it works.
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post #5 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 12:51 AM
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Yeah prison isn't that simple.

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post #6 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 01:14 AM
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This is an odd thing to discuss. Have you thought a lot about prison rape?

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post #7 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 01:25 AM Thread Starter
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This is an odd thing to discuss. Have you thought a lot about prison rape?
I first learned that it exists in 2013 when a certain girl I been talking to on facebook told me that her ex-boyfriend, who is sexual offender, will probably get raped in prison. Up until that time I was assuming that prison rape is just a joke, but then when I been talking to her I realized no its not a joke, and thats why I was surprised.

As far as this being an odd thing to discuss, is it because you are so used to it that you don't even notice that it makes no logical sense (due to what I said in OP)? Also look at the replies of the form "it doesn't work that way". Well thats no answer. But yeah I remember other social things that seem counterintuitive yet all people have to say is "it doesn't work that way". For example: why do nice guys finish last? Because "thats how it works". Why people judge on first impressions instead of taking time to learn about the person? "Because thats how it works". You see, in those cases it is also counterintuitive, yet people don't see that it is, to them it simply "works that way" because they are used to it. The same goes for prison rape.

One way in which I differ from most people is that most people follow the crowd: when they see that something is commonly accepted, they don't question it. But in my case I operate in just the opposite way: if something that makes no sense is commonly accepted, that makes me question it all the more. Apart from the fact that it makes no sense as is, it ALSO makes no sense why no one else besides me asked that question!

Here is an example: when I been taking quantum mechanics course, right in the beginning of the course professor warned us about all the specific things about quantum mechanics that make no sense. So I was okay with it: since other people noticed those questions and admitted they are paradoxes, I can postpone trying to solve them and just focus on the course. But then, when I took quantum field theory course, there were new set of things that make no sense, but this time no one warned me about it. So because they didn't tell me that field thoery isn't supposed to make sense, I was thinking that I am really missing something since no one asks the same questions that I do. Hence, instead of studying quantum field theory I was stuck at tryin g to answer those questions, which ultimately screwed me up academically.

Well, prison rape is analogous to quantum field theory since no one else besides me ever asks or acknowleges those questions, which makes me really wonder why not.

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post #8 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 08:36 AM
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I've never heard anyone compare prison rape to quantum field theory before. I wonder why.

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This is an odd thing to discuss. Have you thought a lot about prison rape?
Didn't your teachers tell you that you would end up in prison and be a little cocksucking ***** there? It's called scared straight. They did it to all of us when we skipped a class or thew a snowball.

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post #9 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 09:05 AM
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@causalset I can't actually easily find out what happens (punishment wise) w.r.t. prison rape, which is slightly concerning (I might just be being an idiot today though).

But I will say that the way prison rape is treated in society is pretty awful. The jokey way people deal with it "ooh, don't drop the soap" I find pretty ****ed up, personally. It is making light of something pretty horrific, and whilst I am not personally offended by such things, it seems kinda telling that nobody really seems to even notice. Similar jokes about rape outside of prison would be treated very differently.
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post #10 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 09:13 AM
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I have heard that this is kinda where the "sagging pants" culture came from. You know, the jeans halfway down the butt and the underpants showing?

It's a sick power play.

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post #11 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 09:14 AM
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It's quite common, especially in overcrowded prisons (common in the US.) Sometimes men in prison will kill their rapist or potential rapist because they are already serving a long sentence so there's no incentive not to at that point for self protection.

People under report it due to shame over homosexuality. Many prison guards/people who work in prisons are involved in sexual abuse too or ignore it. Most Humans can't do that job because they turn empathy off for criminals. But, because most Humans lose empathy for criminals, most Humans don't care and that will not change.

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post #12 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 01:34 PM Thread Starter
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It's quite common, especially in overcrowded prisons (common in the US.) Sometimes men in prison will kill their rapist or potential rapist because they are already serving a long sentence so there's no incentive not to at that point for self protection.

People under report it due to shame over homosexuality. Many prison guards/people who work in prisons are involved in sexual abuse too or ignore it. Most Humans can't do that job because they turn empathy off for criminals. But, because most Humans lose empathy for criminals, most Humans don't care and that will not change.
Here is something interesting though. They come up with all the "other" ways of trying to stop prison rape, such as making prisons less crowded, separating criminals based on the crime they committed, "protective units", and so forth. Yet they never do something thats obvious, such as give prisoners separate sentence for rape! So if they truly didn't have empathy, why would they come up with all those "other" things they can do? So what it seems like is that the specific dynamics of not having empathy is pretty complex: instead of simply saying they don't care, period, they created blind spot when it comes to "obvious" solution (they don't give additional sentences) and then they are trying to do their best to protect them within this one constraint. Is it a psychological tool for them to say "look we did our best to protect them" (thus not feel guilty) and, at the same time, allowing them to get raped (since they think they deserve to be raped anyway). It sort of like when there is a death penalty by shooting one of the guns they shoot is empty to relieve the shooters of the guilt. So maybe with rape its the same thing. Just like with shooting they want to make sure that the criminal is dead and at the same time relieve guilt from themselves, in case of prison rape they want to make sure that the prisoners get raped (at least sometimes) while at the same time relieving guilt from themselves. And looking for "secondary solutions" to prison rape while avoiding the "obvious solution" seems like a way to do that.

By the way I heard that during the world war 2, people in Eastern Europe for the most part avoided helping Jews hide and, in many cases, they were helping Nazis kill them, because they happened to hate Jews themselves (hatred of Jews in Eastern Europe dates long before Nazis). But then there were some exceptions of courageous people that did help the Jews. However, there was one village, Ispas, where something totally contradictory happened. First, Nazis came and they stopped them from killing Jews -- in fact the priest ran without sandals to stop the Nazis -- and then after Nazis left the villagers themselves kicked the Jews out of their houses, robbed them, and even killed some of them (see here http://old.themoscowtimes.com/news/a...t/194919.html/ ) ! I was always wondering just what exactly were they thinking and what were their motives anyway. Why would they risk their lifes (literally) to save the Jews whom they were going to kill themselves anyway? I guess it is the same sort of contradiction as in prison where they try to save them from being raped yet, at the same time, avoid doing the obvious thing that would save them.

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post #13 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 01:44 PM
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make prison rape illegal, punishable with more time in prison comparable to the time in prison one would get for rape elsewhere.
And if the rapist is already serving one or more life sentances?

Shockingly enough it is illegal to rape someone, being in prison doesn't change that, the problem is that there isn't a lot to threaten someone with when they are already locked away from the world for however many years.

A lot of prisons have special units to keep inmates they deem to be at risk of rape in, to keep them safe. Not something they would do if they wanted rape to be part of the punishment.

It really seems like you want to blame the prison system for a problem that can only realistically be solved by chaining inmates to the walls at all times.

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post #14 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 01:47 PM Thread Starter
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And if the rapist is already serving one or more life sentances?
That would be different of course. But the fact is that even in the prisons where they serve only a couple of years rape also occurs. So why can't at least that situation be solved with additional sentences?

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post #15 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 01:50 PM
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I'd have to say it that the inside of prisons are way more corrupt than outsiders give it credit for (based on things I've read, not any personal experience). Women in female prisons have reported guards giving them contraband like alcohol in exchange for sexual favours, and I seriously doubt any rape reported in male or female prisons will be taken seriously, especially since prison guards have been known to be perpetrators themselves. I guess it's just a part of prison life inmates learn to navigate; can you imagine the potential consequences if anyone found out they were making complaints to the guards? They could get murdered for it.
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post #16 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 01:54 PM
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The jokey way people deal with it "ooh, don't drop the soap" I find pretty ****ed up, personally. It is making light of something pretty horrific, and whilst I am not personally offended by such things, it seems kinda telling that nobody really seems to even notice. Similar jokes about rape outside of prison would be treated very differently.
It's not surprising considering that rape culture still exists in society and most people actually don't care about rape/sexual abuse until it happens to them. They can claim to but they honestly have zero empathy especially for victims who have long lasting symptoms as a result, SA being one of them. I can say that with confidence as someone who's experienced it myself. People really don't care.
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post #17 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 01:55 PM Thread Starter
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especially since prison guards have been known to be perpetrators themselves.
Thats another interesting question. When I was asking "why do straight men want to rape another straight man anyway" I was told "well, they don't have access to women" (which I don't buy: the men outside the prison who have trouble attracting women, such as myself, don't resort to gay sex, so why should it be any different in prison?). But even if I do "for the sake of the argument" accept the explanation, still the prison guards are free people so they do have access to women, so then how would you explain "their" motive for sexual contact with same sex prisoners?

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post #18 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 01:58 PM Thread Starter
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It's not surprising considering that rape culture still exists in society and most people actually don't care about rape/sexual abuse until it happens to them. They can claim to but they honestly have zero empathy especially for victims who have long lasting symptoms as a result, SA being one of them. I can say that with confidence as someone who's experienced it myself. People really don't care.
If people don't care about rape, how do you explain why former rapists are the prime targets of prison rape? So this seems to imply that they "do" care about rape that happens outside of prison since they want to punish it this way. Its the rape "inside" the prison that they seem not to care about.

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post #19 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 02:00 PM
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That would be different of course. But the fact is that even in the prisons where they serve only a couple of years rape also occurs. So why can't at least that situation be solved with additional sentences?
In the US prisons are already overcrowded. They are trying to release people.

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post #20 of 54 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017, 02:07 PM
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Thats another interesting question. When I was asking "why do straight men want to rape another straight man anyway" I was told "well, they don't have access to women" (which I don't buy: the men outside the prison who have trouble attracting women, such as myself, don't resort to gay sex, so why should it be any different in prison?). But even if I do "for the sake of the argument" accept the explanation, still the prison guards are free people so they do have access to women, so then how would you explain "their" motive for sexual contact with same sex prisoners?
Straight men will rape male inmates and remain straight. Rape is never about sexual attraction, women, children, elderly, animals are primarily targeted because they are weaker not more "attractive" to rapists. Rapists will rape old unattractive women, because rape is never about sexual attraction but rather gaining a certain sense of power over someone by violating them in such a way. I have been sexually abused by a female relative (who I stress hated me) despite her being straight.

Guards/inmates target prisoners because they are easy targets for gaining this sort of power. The prisoners have no one on their sides and everyone including the guards know that so they abuse this power to gain what they want which is power by violating another. They know they will ruin someone's life and haunt their memories forever, and that is a sense of power for many.
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