More shooting sprees

[WinterDave]

FORT HOOD, Texas -- U.S. Army officials said Friday that the alleged shooter in the military-base massacre that left 13 people dead and dozens wounded had been scheduled to deploy to Afghanistan to counsel soldiers suffering from combat stress.

The suspect, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, was in stable condition Friday as investigators interviewed witnesses and tried to piece together details of one of the worst incidents of soldier-on-soldier violence in U.S. history.
Army Col. Steven Braverman said during a morning news briefing that military psychiatrist Maj. Hasan hadn't been a disciplinary issue since recently being transferred to Fort Hood from Walter Reed Medical Center in Washington. Col. Braverman declined to elaborate on the man at the center of the rampage, noting that a detailed probe was ongoing.
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On the Scene in Fort Hood

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WSJ's Yochi Dreazen talks with Kelsey Hubbard about the investigation of the shooting at Fort Hood, including whether the massacre was premeditated, and what role the stresses of war played in this event.


"We had no problems with job performance while he was working with us," said Col. Braverman, one of Maj. Hasan's superiors.
Army Col. John Rossi called Thursday's shooting a "tragic incident" and said that investigators had spent the night carefully interviewing witnesses. Officials disclosed that one of the 13 killed in the shooting was a civilian, while the rest were members of the military.
Military officials said the focus now is on the wounded soldiers who continue to need medical care. Half of those hospitalized required surgery and are in stable condition, Col. Braverman said.
At Scott & White Memorial Hospital in Temple, Texas, about 30 minutes east of Fort Hood, medical staff were treating 10 victims suffering from gunshot wounds to the head, abdomen, neck and chest. Some had been struck multiple times. Six were in critical condition in the intensive-care unit following surgery, while four others were in the regular inpatient wing with less serious injuries. One patient may be released as early as Friday, hospital officials said.
"Some of them are not out of the woods," W. Roy Smythe, chair of the hospital's surgery department, said of the victims.
Col. Kimberly Kesling, deputy commander of clinical services at Darnall Army Medical Center, the hospital at Fort Hood, said Friday morning Maj. Hasan had appeared to be a dedicated professional. She described him as quiet, respectful and appropriate in attire and demeanor since arriving on base in July.
"To date, he had been performing quite well," Col. Kesling said.
His job as a psychiatrist was intense, she said. Some Army mental-health professionals experience burnout from the burden of hearing so many horror stories from traumatized veterans. But she had seen no sign that Maj. Hasan was under that type of stress.
"It's a shock," she said. "You would hope you never know someone who would have such a demon."
News that the suspected shooter was an Army psychiatrist alarmed Sgt. Howard Appleby, an Iraq veteran who suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder and had been seeing a military psychiatrist daily since returning from the war last summer.
On Thursday, he was turned away at the hospital door as he walked in for his regular appointment, told that it had been postponed due to an emergency. He drove to the scene and began helping triage victims and load them into ambulances.
Friday morning, Sgt. Appleby said he was not sure he wanted to return to his regular schedule of Army counseling. "They need to evaluate all psychiatrists," he said. "I'm thinking twice about going to a psychiatrist now."
The shooting rampage Thursday was halted by a female civilian police officer who shot him, said Lt. Gen. Robert Cone, the top military commander on the base. Sgt. Kimberly Munley and her partner responded within three minutes of reported gunfire. She was in stable condition Friday and is expected to recover from wounds sustained in the gun battle.

Maj. Hasan, 39 years old, was hospitalized after the shooting, Lt. Gen. Cone said, and "his death is not imminent." He was on a ventilator and unconscious in a hospital after being shot four times during the shootings at the Army's sprawling Fort Hood, post officials said.
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In the early chaos after the shootings, authorities believed they had killed him, only to discover later that he had survived.
Military officials added that they were probing how the alleged shooter may have gotten weapons into the base, where personnel other than civilian police don't typically carry weapons. They noted that security personnel conduct random car checks in search of guns.
President Barack Obama on Friday urged people not to jump to conclusions while law-enforcement officials gather facts about the shootings. The president ordered flags at the White House and other federal agencies to be flown at half-staff until Veterans Day as a tribute to those who lost their lives.
The alleged shooter is originally from Virginia, and had been recently promoted to major before his transfer to Fort Hood. His professional specialties include post-traumatic stress disorder, combat stress and other emotional issues common to the troops implicated in earlier incidents of military fratricide.
Authorities on Friday seized Maj. Hasan's home computer, searched his apartment and took away a dumpster.
Maj. Hasan was slated to serve for the first time in Afghanistan in coming weeks, military officials said. It was originally reported that he was to serve in Iraq. An official at the Pentagon added there were indications that Maj. Hasan was deeply upset about the pending assignment.
Maj. Hasan's cousin, Nader Hasan, told Fox News that his cousin was deeply traumatized about seeing wartime service.

"We've known for the last five years that that was probably his worst nightmare," Nader Hasan said. "He would tell us how he hears horrific things...that was probably affecting him psychologically."
The cousin said Maj. Hasan had joined the military out of high school against the wishes of his parents. He added that Maj. Hasan, a Muslim, hired a military lawyer and had been trying since September to avoid deployment and leave the Army.



The shooting began about 1:30 p.m. local time in two small buildings, adjacent to a processing center where soldiers receive medical checkups as they prepare to deploy overseas, officials said.
Lt. Gen. Cone said the victims, mostly soldiers, were waiting for treatment. Soldiers at the base don't routinely carry weapons and, therefore, would have been unarmed at the time of the attack. Maj. Hasan used two handguns, he said, including a semiautomatic weapon.
The injuries of the wounded varied significantly, he said.
Quick action by base personnel protected about 600 people who were in a nearby theater to attend college-graduation ceremonies for 138 soldiers, Lt. Gen. Cone said.
Thursday's attack was one of the Army's worst single-day losses of life since the start of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
President Barack Obama said in a nationally televised address that the attack on soldiers in the U.S. was particularly unsettling.
"It's difficult enough when we lose these brave Americans in battles overseas," he said. "It is horrifying that they should come under fire at an Army base on American soil."
Fort Hood, is the largest U.S. military facility in the world. It houses the 1st Cavalry Division and the First Army Division West, as well as an array of smaller aviation, logistics, and military police units.
More than 45,000 soldiers are assigned to the base, with many deployed to Afghanistan or Iraq at any one time. About 9,000 civilians also work at Fort Hood, and thousands of families live on the base and in nearby Killeen -- about 160 miles southwest of Dallas.
The shooting rattled service members at Fort Hood. "It's heavy on the hearts of soldiers," said Dionte Turner, a 29-year-old military police officer stationed who has been deployed to both Iraq and Afghanistan. Killings "can happen anywhere," he said, "but you don't expect it to happen in your backyard.""

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1257...NewsCollection

[WinterDave]

Multiple people shot at Orlando office building; suspect at large
By Michael D. Shear
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, November 6, 2009 2:16 PM



"Multiple people were shot in an Orlando highrise office building and the shooter remains at large in the area, according to Orlando police spokeswoman Barbara Jones.
Police have identified the suspect as Jason Rodriguez, 40, a former employee of one of the businesses in the building. They said he drives a silver 2002 Nissan SUV with license plates D119UX, but said they do not yet know if he is still in the building or has left the scene.
Jones said police believe Rodriguez is the only shooter in the incident. Television reports suggested that bodies were found on several different floors of the office building. Jones would not confirm any fatalities.
Officials would not say how many people have been shot, but television reports indicated that eight people were shot and that four people sustained serious injuries.
Swat teams and ambulances descended on the 16-story Gateway Center office building after receiving reports of shots having been fired at 11 a.m. Friday morning, Jones said. Shortly after, she said police went into "active shooter mode," believing that the incident was still underway.
"That's where shots are still being fired and we're having to trace the shots," Jones told reporters even as police cordoned off several blocks around the office building and shut down parts of nearby Interstate 4.
"We're still trying to secure various structures around the area to make sure the shooter is still not in this area," Jones said in a briefing just after 1 p.m.
An Orlando Fire Department official told CNN that several people were taken to area hospital after reports of shots being fired on the eighth floor of the building.
Witnesses suggested that a former employee of one of the businesses in the buildings may have been responsible for the shooting, according to television reports.
Asked where the suspect headed after the shooting, Jones snapped: "I don't know. If I knew where he went, we'd be there, taking him out."
Jones said swat teams and "active shooter teams" were sweeping through the Gateway Center building and others in the area to make sure the shooter was not still inside."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...110602294.html

[nubly]

i was surprised when i found out it was a major that did the ft hood shootings. i was expecting it to be an EM.

as for the orlando one, well this country's gun laws are too lenient. too easy for gun toting maniacs to get guns.

[Jnmcda0]

Originally Posted by nubly

as for the orlando one, well this country's gun laws are too lenient. too easy for gun toting maniacs to get guns.

Karl will be all over you for that one.

[UltraShy]

Originally Posted by Jnmcda0

Karl will be all over you for that one.

WinterDave should be careful here. I've noticed he has a habit of posting about the exceedingly rare nuts who make the other 90 million American gun owners look bad. Such might be deemed "agenda pushing." To avoid agenda pushing I no longer post any gun-related editorials that I get published. I got another one published today -- you can find it on my blog.

Ironically, Karl, was at the time of the Texas shooting doing some shooting of his own. He was at an indoor handgun range and ran three boxes of .357 Mag though his Ruger GP100. Karl heard of the Texas shooting while he was cleaning his revolver after getting home from that range.

Despite suffering from severe anxiety that makes Karl afraid of a great many things, Karl has never feared that he would be shot, not even on a shooting range where there are people with loaded guns!

It would be interesting to see if anybody could come up with a list of the most common ways to die. I'm guessing that being intentionally shot by someone else (not during the commission of a criminal act) ranks very low on the list of ways to die in the USA.

[UltraShy]

Maj. Hasan used two handguns, he said, including a semiautomatic weapon.

Why does the media feel the need to say semiautomatic? Could there be some media bias? Or shall we pretend Fox News the only media outlet with a bias, while remaining too blind to see left wing bias?

Given that 80% of handguns sold in the last 20 years have been semiautos, it's reasonable to guess that a semiauto was used unless otherwise specified. When a revolver is used they never say it was a revolver -- I can only assume because that simply fails to scare the public. In that case it as just a "handgun" and for some reason the media doesn't feel the need to tell us about it being an old-fashioned wheel gun.

Semiautomatic isn't something new & terrifying. This is an Army base where semiautos have been part of military life for the last century.

I must wonder how many people who hear the TV news or read the paper even know what semiautomatic means? It simply means that it uses energy from recoil to toss out the empty case and load a new round. It fires only one round per trigger pull.

For anyone who thinks semiautos are more dangerous which would you prefer:

-being shot with a SEMIAUTO .22 pistol that is generally used for perforating paper targets or soup cans in practice.

Or

-being shot with a magnum load of buckshot from a pump-action shotgun that could literally blow your head off (thankfully, it will kill you safely since it's not semiautomatic).

[millenniumman75]

It isn't the guns; it's the wrong people with these guns.
I have had to reserve comment until I hear more about what happened, even though I may never find out everything. There are too many questions.

[Toad Licker]

I think I'm starting to become numb to this crap it doesn't really even phase me anymore.

[Lonelyguy]

I can't help but feel a lot of these mass shootings are fueled by the hysterical media coverage they receive. Sure, people in this country have the right to know what's going on and I don't believe in censorship...and I don't think anyone can put the blame on the media for causing this either. But we can't deny that such extensive coverage must surely look appealing in the mind of a deranged lunatic who wants to go out in a blaze of glory and leave his mark in history. It's impossible to know for sure what the thoughts are of someone like this. I don't really believe that these shooters are so thirsty for blood that they want to kill as many innocent people as possible to satisfy that urge; from what I've seen most of them don't even exhibit the same behavior patterns as a typical serial killer. I think deep down inside it's just a desperate, selfish act to gain the world's attention. Their ultimate goal seems to be suicide, but I wonder if they would still take innocent lives with them if they knew they wouldn't get any recognition.

[IHeartSteveMcQueen]

Originally Posted by UltraShy

WinterDave should be careful here. I've noticed he has a habit of posting about the exceedingly rare nuts who make the other 90 million American gun owners look bad. Such might be deemed "agenda pushing." To avoid agenda pushing I no longer post any gun-related editorials that I get published. I got another one published today -- you can find it on my blog.

Ironically, Karl, was at the time of the Texas shooting doing some shooting of his own. He was at an indoor handgun range and ran three boxes of .357 Mag though his Ruger GP100. Karl heard of the Texas shooting while he was cleaning his revolver after getting home from that range.

Despite suffering from severe anxiety that makes Karl afraid of a great many things, Karl has never feared that he would be shot, not even on a shooting range where there are people with loaded guns!

It would be interesting to see if anybody could come up with a list of the most common ways to die. I'm guessing that being intentionally shot by someone else (not during the commission of a criminal act) ranks very low on the list of ways to die in the USA.

Karl talks too much sense for this forum.

[Dempsey]

The old guy I live with started going on about Muslims and "those people" when this story came on TV. Ugh nothing brings out my arguing side more. He actually tried to tell me that the Qur'an was just about killing "infidels". Why is everyone so sick in the head.

[Micronian]

Originally Posted by UltraShy

WinterDave should be careful here. I've noticed he has a habit of posting about the exceedingly rare nuts who make the other 90 million American gun owners look bad. Such might be deemed "agenda pushing." To avoid agenda pushing I no longer post any gun-related editorials that I get published. I got another one published today -- you can find it on my blog.

Ironically, Karl, was at the time of the Texas shooting doing some shooting of his own. He was at an indoor handgun range and ran three boxes of .357 Mag though his Ruger GP100. Karl heard of the Texas shooting while he was cleaning his revolver after getting home from that range.

Despite suffering from severe anxiety that makes Karl afraid of a great many things, Karl has never feared that he would be shot, not even on a shooting range where there are people with loaded guns!

It would be interesting to see if anybody could come up with a list of the most common ways to die. I'm guessing that being intentionally shot by someone else (not during the commission of a criminal act) ranks very low on the list of ways to die in the USA.

So, I guess we should just ignore this and move along--because it's rare. The local reporters should also just ignore all the shootings that happen everyday in major US cities, and, of course, we should ignore the statistics of how many people die from gunshot wounds every year. Heck, we ignored the dangers of smoking and nicotine for years, and look what a great time that was .

[kikachuck]

Originally Posted by Micronian

So, I guess we should just ignore this and move along--because it's rare. The local reporters should also just ignore all the shootings that happen everyday in major US cities, and, of course, we should ignore the statistics of how many people die from gunshot wounds every year. Heck, we ignored the dangers of smoking and nicotine for years, and look what a great time that was .

That's not an entirely reasonable interpretation of what he said, me thinks. I don't want to put words into his mouth, but I believe Karl was saying something to the effect that, when something like this happens, we see (sometimes) hysterical anti-gun rants and big picture analysis about what this might say about our nation's gun control policy. In actuality, these events are so rare, it doesn't say anything of the sort. I don't believe he said anything about it not being covered.

[WineKitty]

Originally Posted by UltraShy

It would be interesting to see if anybody could come up with a list of the most common ways to die.

Here's a list of the leading causes of death in the United States compiled by the CDC.

10. Septicemia (aka the presence of bacteria in the blood) - 34,136 deaths

9. Nephritis (aka inflammation of the kidney) - 43,901 deaths

8. Influenza/Pneumonia - 63,001 deaths

7. Alzheimer's disease - 71,599 deaths


6. Diabetes - 75,119 deaths


5. Accidents -117,809 deaths


4. Chronic lower respiratory diseases - 130,933 deaths


3. Stroke - 143,579 deaths


2. Cancer - 559,312 deaths

1. Heart disease - 652,091 deaths


http://media.www.ecollegetimes.com/m...-3736037.shtml

[WineKitty]

What bothers me is the anti Muslim sentiment this is fueling.

[millenniumman75]

Originally Posted by Lonelyguy

I can't help but feel a lot of these mass shootings are fueled by the hysterical media coverage they receive. Sure, people in this country have the right to know what's going on and I don't believe in censorship...and I don't think anyone can put the blame on the media for causing this either. But we can't deny that such extensive coverage must surely look appealing in the mind of a deranged lunatic who wants to go out in a blaze of glory and leave his mark in history. It's impossible to know for sure what the thoughts are of someone like this. I don't really believe that these shooters are so thirsty for blood that they want to kill as many innocent people as possible to satisfy that urge; from what I've seen most of them don't even exhibit the same behavior patterns as a typical serial killer. I think deep down inside it's just a desperate, selfish act to gain the world's attention. Their ultimate goal seems to be suicide, but I wonder if they would still take innocent lives with them if they knew they wouldn't get any recognition.

You got it! It's a race for the most sensational story. They'll talk about it to death like we worry about things in our life, and then a new story comes in to replace it.

[kikachuck]

Originally Posted by WineKitty

What bothers me is the anti Muslim sentiment this is fueling.

like?

[Micronian]

Originally Posted by WineKitty

What bothers me is the anti Muslim sentiment this is fueling.

I really hope that isn't the case. It would really disappoint me to hear people come to such a heinous conclusion.

[WineKitty]

Originally Posted by kikachuck

like?

Like? Did you not watch the reports?? The first thing everyone seems to comment on is the fact he is Muslim, are there terrorist connections, what did his Muslim faith have to do with it. Questions that WOULDNT have been asked if this were a Christian or Catholic boy. Try googling this subject to assure yourself that I am not the only one seeing this.

An example of something I googled in seconds:

http://frontpagemag.com/2009/11/06/t...-jamie-glazov/

[ecotec83]

I agree 110% that in most cases these crimes are committed by people who should not have had access to guns in the first place. I hear frequently that people think banning guns is the way to go, i disagree. You can ban or make firearms training required to get a gun but in the end any criminal who wants to get a hold of a gun will do so legally or not. In Canada we go through 2 exams in order to get a handgun and another just to transport it between locations as well as a background check that includes mental health issues. While it's a pain in the butt for people just wanting to target shoot (such as myself) criminals still manage to by-pass the system and get gun illegally. Anyone who has the right connections can get a gun with no problems.