Mental illness does NOT cause mass murder

[Jason 1]

Evil causes mass murder. Nearly all the demons (people) who commit mass murder are evil. Whether or not they have a mental illness is of little relevance.

For example, these descriptions/statements have little relevance: The Connecticut mass murderer (Adam) is described as "shy, smart, and socially inept". An interviewee said, "I think he might have had some social disorder or something".
http://www.officer.com/news/10843026...socially-inept
This is not the first time a killers social ineptitude has been emphasized. They always do this. This bothers me because it unfairly stigmatizes mentally ill people and/or loners.

In truth, 99.9999999% of socially inept and even mentally ill people do NOT murder or even have a desire to murder other human beings.

Mental illness does NOT kill, evil kills. These mass murderers are evil. The largest mass murderers in history are typically social apt NOT inept. For example, Hitler and other nefarious leaders have great social skills.

Even shooting spree murderers are often considered sane AND socially apt. Anders Behring Breivik murdered 77 innocent people (mostly children), but was declared sane.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/wo...anted=all&_r=0

My point is that mental illness has nothing to do with being evil. These are two completely separable psychological description. In general, mentally ill people are just as safe and benevolent as non-mentally ill people.

Here's a quote that, perhaps, conveys what I'm trying to say better than I can say it.

"Men kill, men steal, men torture, men concoct evil plots — men run concentration camps — and, at the same time, seem perfectly "normal," "ordinary." They are logical, lucid, functional, and, in the case of certain Nazis, also love music, their families, their pets. Men — women too, but in different ways — who commit cruel and evil deeds are nevertheless [sane] members of the human race [...].

Breivik got up every day, washed, ate, got dressed, and "went to work." For years, he worked as an equity trader, as the director of a software company [a job that requires social skills], and as a farmer. His real "work" consisted of planning this massacre. He saved money. He read books and articles. He wrote a (partly plagiarized) manifesto that is rather well written.

[...] Breivik was not a loner. He got out. He socialized [...]. Breivik knew and probably still knows right from wrong. He knew that he was making a political statement, a horrendously bloody political statement, one that in his view was meant to save Norway from destruction at the hands of barbarian invaders — an act that was perhaps meant to teach appeasement-minded Norwegian leaders that violence now awaits them on either side.

As a former forensic psychologist and as someone who has been consulted by lawyers over the years many times, in my expert opinion (one rendered from afar), Breivik is more than sane enough to stand trial. He is also a violent, evil, sociopathic man. Men who rape their children, men who beat their wives, rapists in general, tend to pass most mental health tests and are spookily indistinguishable from the rest of the population."
http://www.phyllis-chesler.com/1023/...anders-breivik



I'm not saying that all mentally ill people are safe. All I'm saying is that mentally ill people are just as likely to be evil as non-mentally ill people. Just as 99.999% of normal people don't have a desire to commit mass murder of innocent people, 99.999% of mentally ill and/or socially inept people don't have a desire to commit mass murder of innocent people. Their is absolutely no reason why social ineptitude should be emphasized when describing or trying to understand evil people.

[Jason 1]

No one is responding. This is because everyone agrees, right? I guess I'd have to make such a post on a "normal" forum to generate discussion?

[nubly]

Originally Posted by Jason 1

No one is responding. This is because everyone agrees, right? I guess I'd have to make such a post on a "normal" forum to generate discussion?

yea. pretty much everyone here has a mental disorder and no one has gone on a murder spree.

[cloud90]

Yeah ok sure.
Murdering is ok in certain cases.
Mass mudering is not.

Mentally ill ppl are more likely to commit mass murder. It is what it is man..

[Cam1]

I'm pretty sure that almost every mass murderer has some form of mental illness (APD, psychopathy, etc).

Evil isn't something that causes anything, but merely a term used to describe harmful and severely painful acts such as this killing.

People also need to get over the fact that he was called "quiet". Most murderers actually are quiet, that doesn't mean every quiet person is capable of murder (as anyone with SAS should know). Clearly there is no direct relationship between SAD/depression and Murder. There was a lot more wrong with this guy.

[Ohhai]

I actually turned away from answering this thread mostly because answering such a complicated question as why somebody would go on a killing spree with "evil" is ridiculous. I don't think anybody believes all people who are mentally ill are killers, I mean last time I checked 10% of the UK had a mental illness and my therapist believed that percentage was conservative.

[Jason 1]

Originally Posted by Cam1

I'm pretty sure that almost every mass murderer has some form of mental illness (APD, psychopathy, etc).

Evil isn't something that causes anything, but merely a term used to describe harmful and severely painful acts such as this killing.

People also need to get over the fact that he was called "quiet". Most murderers actually are quiet, that doesn't mean every quiet person is capable of murder (as anyone with SAS should know). Clearly there is no direct relationship between SAD/depression and Murder. There was a lot more wrong with this guy.

No they're not. Read my post.

[Killer2121]

Actually mental illness can cause mass murder. A schizophernic (yes I butchered spelling) person can easily hear voices in his head which cause him to gun down dozens of people in a mall.

[Cam1]

Originally Posted by Jason 1

No they're not. Read my post.

You simply gave your opinion that most mass murderers are not socially inept, then went on to list one mass murderer in history (Hitler) who was not. The majority of most murderers typically are quiet, but that's not to say that all of them are.

Also, there's a difference between being socially inept and being quiet.

[Jason 1]

Originally Posted by Ohhai

I actually turned away from answering this thread mostly because answering such a complicated question as why somebody would go on a killing spree with "evil" is ridiculous. I don't think anybody believes all people who are mentally ill are killers, I mean last time I checked 10% of the UK had a mental illness and my therapist believed that percentage was conservative.

1. Yes. It's true. There are good and bad people in this world. There is no mental illness or childhood problems that can excuse killing 20 innocent, very young children.

2. Not all.... but to even imply that many mentally ill people are nefarious is ridiculous. The first response to this tragedy was to say that they need gun control laws to keep guns out of the hands of mentally ill people.

They don't need to test for mental illness, they need to test for morality. Perhaps using, witty questions or even lie detectors to determine an individuals capacity for evil. E.g., ask how they would respond or feel in certain scenarios. People who prefer violent responses or appear to be lying about desiring a violent response could be banned from owning guns. Of course, it would have to be more complicated than that, but you get my point.

[fanatic203]

Well said, Jason

[Jason 1]

Originally Posted by Cam1

You simply gave your opinion that most mass murderers are not socially inept, then went on to list one mass murderer in history (Hitler) who was not. The majority of most murderers typically are quiet, but that's not to say that all of them are.

Also, there's a difference between being socially inept and being quiet.

Give me examples of all these quiet mass murderers.

Here are a few examples of outgoing, socially apt mass murderers, serial killers, etc.

Josepeh Stalin
Ted Bundy
Anders Breivik
Jeffery Dahmer
Nidal Malik Hasan

I could go on and on and on, but I don't have time or the desire to look up info about every mass murderer. I will say this; however, most serial killers are social because they have to be to gain their victims' trust.

[millenniumman75]

Originally Posted by nubly

yea. pretty much everyone here has a mental disorder and no one has gone on a murder spree.

SA is a mood/emotional disorder, not a mental illness.

[millenniumman75]

Originally Posted by Jason 1

Give me examples of all these quiet mass murderers.

Here are a few examples of outgoing, socially apt mass murderers, serial killers, etc.

Josepeh Stalin
Ted Bundy
Anders Breivik
Jeffery Dahmer
Nidal Malik Hasan

I could go on and on and on, but I don't have time or the desire to look up info about every mass murderer. I will say this; however, most serial killers are social because they have to be to gain their victims' trust.

Con men. You can add Mr. Hitler and Mr. Manson to that list.

[PickleNose]

Originally Posted by cloud90

Mentally ill ppl are more likely to commit mass murder.

But this is an unbelievably general statement. There are many different kinds and levels of mental problems. And most of them are simply not going to end up putting the person in a classroom killing people.

I really hate when people take extreme cases like this and use them to tar millions of vaguely similar people with the same brush.

Mentally ill people (depending on the type of mental illness you're talking about) may very well be more likely to be unconditionally loving and caring than people who aren't mentally ill. But we aren't reenforcing that positive trait, are we?

[PickleNose]

Originally Posted by millenniumman75

Con men. You can add Mr. Hitler and Mr. Manson to that list.

I don't think they ever proved Manson killed anyone personally.

[creasy]

Are you religious? And what exactly do you believe evil to be?

[Jason 1]

Originally Posted by creasy

Are you religious? And what exactly do you believe evil to be?

I'm not religious. I'm agnostic.

I can't really define evil, but I know it when I see it. For example, I think child murderers are evil. I can't think of any mental illness, childhood trauma, etc. that can justify murdering children.... especially so many. People Like Adam Lanza and Anders Breivik had time to murder, think about the murder, then continue murdering. We don't know the details of Adam's case, but in Anders' case, he methodically continued murdering for over and hour (if I remember correctly). He was not insane and he did not feel regret or remorse.

[creasy]

Originally Posted by Jason 1

I'm not religious. I'm agnostic.

I can't really define evil, but I know it when I see it. For example, I think child murderers are evil. I can't think of any mental illness, childhood trauma, etc. that can justify murdering children.... especially so many. People Like Adam Lanza and Anders Breivik had time to murder, think about the murder, then continue murdering. We don't know the details of Adam's case, but in Anders' case, he methodically continued murdering for over and hour (if I remember correctly). He was not insane and he did not feel regret or remorse.

You do realize that sociopathy and NPD are mental illnesses though? A lack of empathy is due to a certain structuring of the brain. It seems that you're making a distinction between mental illness and the capacity for evil when they both derive from the same root process.

[calichick]

This thread basically goes

blah blah mental illness murder blah blah

it's really, really not that hard to pinpoint the cause of evil in this world

the root of evil is a specific hormone plain and simple. Have a better explanation I'd like to hear it

P.s. mods this is not a personal attack this is a scientific based argument (and btw what happened to the old mods)

The definition of Evil is morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked, rape, murder, crime all caused by a lack of stable thinking


Mental illness implies a neurological imbalance which causes normal levels in the brain to be dysfunctional, but in the end violence and murder and crime can all be traced to one hormone.