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Old 04-25-2010, 04:07 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Default Is recreational drug use morally acceptable?

Let's do marijuana first. The active ingredient, THC, is almost completely harmless. If a vaporizer is used, there are almost no negative health effects. It can trigger schizophrenia in predispositioned individuals, so lets just limit it to mentally healthy individuals. Marijuana is also completely nonaddictive. I think it's OK to use it as a means of relieving stress and opening yourself up to new ideas, so long as one doesn't become mentally dependent on it.

I think mushrooms and possibly acid would fall into the same category. So long as these two drugs are used responsibly by mentally healthy individuals they don't cause any significant problems. If one senses a bad trip coming on they can take a certain anti-psychotic medicine, thorazine I think, that'll calm you down. I haven't done these myself yet, so if you have please discuss your experiences.

Now we have cocaine, MDMA, and other feel-good drugs. They make you feel great, but don't really lead to any long-term personal improvement. Doing them can make you want to do them again and again. They don't really let you appreciate life when you're sober again, unlike marijuana and some hallucinogens.

Personally, whenever I've gone on a massive session of marijuana consumption I've always come out with knowing something new about myself. After one profound experience I actually quit smoking for a little while because I could appreciate life sober and had zero desire for further altering my state of mind.

Thoughts?
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Old 04-25-2010, 04:31 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
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It would be morally acceptable if legal. But since it's illegal, if you don't grow it yourself (or get it from legal medical sources, if those exist in your area, even if you don't have the prescription for it to be legal for you) your drug money supports violent gangs and (if you live in the USA) contributes to murdering tens of thousands of Mexicans. Funding those activities isn't morally defensible.

For addictive and especially harmful drugs, there's a case for making them illegal for the public benefit. There's still nothing morally wrong with taking them and destroying yourself, though, except for who you're supporting with your money.
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Old 04-25-2010, 05:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Morally acceptable to whom?

To me? Generally? As long as you're not directly harming anyone but yourself, I don't care what you do (arguments about indirect harm are too thorny to be legitimate and are frequently misused).

Also, in general, I think this country (and most of the world) would be better off if you could just grow your own weed and smoke it legally. Or whatever. I'm sure they could work something out if they wanted to. They just don't want to.
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:15 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
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What I'm really asking is is it for someone to use recreational drugs knowing full well that it can harm them. Is it ok to use cocaine or drink knowing that it can lead to addiction and can change the kind of person you are.

Assuming drugs were legal and you were obtaining them legitimately, which drugs would you use and why?

Hoth, are you saying that it is ok to intentionally harm yourself?

Edit: A similar question; does use of certain kinds of drugs cause moral decay?
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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Whether something is "good" or "bad" in terms of society depends on its norms. Whether an individual feels the sideeffects of a drug is not worth the high is creating a set of beliefs and overall morals. To know whether its "ok" or not depends on how you mean for it to be "ok". Is it ok to eat high saturated foods everyday even though you know its bad for your health? Is it ok to take any risk which may do harm to your body and possibly shorten your lifespan?
Well, common sense makes you want to say "no" but who is it not ok to? To you? To them? To society as a whole?
It's not ok to do if you want to progress as a society and make a strong and healthy generation, but its really up to the individual to decide what's important to them and what's ok for them.

What I'm saying is that you need to think about your question and what you are really asking. There are alot of point of views in which you can have about drugs in terms if they are ok or not.
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Old 04-25-2010, 09:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by broseph View Post
What I'm really asking is is it for someone to use recreational drugs knowing full well that it can harm them. Is it ok to use cocaine or drink knowing that it can lead to addiction and can change the kind of person you are.
It has always been my position that's really none of my business. I'm not a god. I'm just another human being and have no authority to tell people how to live their lives beyond that if they directly harm me or someone else in, something will obviously have to be done. Generally, potheads are peaceful people.

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Edit: A similar question; does use of certain kinds of drugs cause moral decay?
Irrelevant. If the drug causes moral decay in an individual who goes on to commit serious crimes, he can then be punished for those crimes.

"Moral decay" is a pretty broad term. Would a person who doesn't swear suddenly starting to swear be moral decay?
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Old 04-25-2010, 09:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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My friend does maryjane sometimes, and I frankly don't care. I think it's fine for him, it seems to have had a positive effect on him, and he isn't a drug addict.

I'm all for legalizing marijuana, but cocaine...no way. I had a friend in high school who died of a cocaine overdose. It's a dangerous drug, and no good can come out of it.
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Old 04-25-2010, 11:47 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
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First-- One cannot lump all "recreational drugs" into one category.

Second--Just because something is deemed "illegal" by society doesn't necessarily make it wrong. It was "illegal" for women to vote at one point.

Thirdly, I will point out something I have said on SAS a million times--the fact that liquor is legal and pot isnt is complete insanity as pot is so much more benign than alcohol.

And fourth, morally acceptable isnt possible. We dont all have the same morals.
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Old 04-26-2010, 06:30 AM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Second--Just because something is deemed "illegal" by society doesn't necessarily make it wrong. It was "illegal" for women to vote at one point.
I too have regularly made the point that legality & morality don't always meet. It drives me nuts when somebody says something is wrong because it's illegal; I gather they don't understand what a circular argument is. It's wrong because it's illegal and it's illegal because its wrong and...there we go into an endless loop of illogic.

Alcohol was illegal from 1920-33 as well, yet today it's so socially accepted that drinking is depicted in many (if not a majority) of TV shows and movies. And those TV shows are regularly supported by beer & liquor ads. From so evil it must be banned to suitable for prime time viewing.

In 1950 a woman who wanted to lose a few pounds could easily have gotten a prescription for methamphetamine from her doc to help her keep her figure. Today meth is so evil you're treated as a criminal should you dare want to buy a nasal decongestant, having to present photo idea and sign a log with all your info entered into a data base for potential DEA viewing pleasure.

Neither substance has changed, but the view of them sure has.

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I will point out something I have said on SAS a million times--the fact that liquor is legal and pot isn't is complete insanity as pot is so much more benign than alcohol.
Yes, it's insanity for sure. Liquor is legal for two major reasons I can think of. It's impossible to stop the production of it when the precursor to it is literally everywhere. You can make alcohol from basically any food crop there is: corn, wheat, barley, rye, potatoes, grapes, sugar cane, apples, citrus fruit, rice to name just a few off the top of my head.

The DEA can burn down a field of pot. They can't burn down the entire state of Iowa to remove corn fields that could be made into vodka, whiskey, etc....

Secondly, alcohol is accepted because it has a very long & rich history in Western civilization. Germany being famous for their many centuries of brewing beer. The French being famous for their tradition of wine making. Whisky is so much a part of European culture that we have Scotch -- whisky named after a nation!
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Old 04-26-2010, 06:41 AM   #10 (permalink)
 
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And, for the few who are new to SAS, yes, I think the use of any and all drugs is morally acceptable.

Self-ownership is at the core of my value system and control is the essence of ownership.

As owner of yourself, you have the absolute right to do with your body as you wish period (no if, ands, or butts from busybodies who'd like to tell you how to live your life).

The question of if some drugs are destructive isn't of any real relevance. If you want to destroy yourself, be my guest. Smokers do so on a daily basis, with some smoking multiple packs, stopping only to eat and shower. And they probably wish there were a water-proof one for in-shower use. (I can only imagine they stop smoking during sex, simply because dropping hot ashes on your partner isn't deemed fun by most -- well maybe some kinky ones like it.)

Smoking tends to lead to death. Thus it seems hard to argue against drug use on the basis that "it could kill you." Drugs on are par with smoking in that regard, so the only argument would be that drugs tend to get the job done faster I guess.
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Old 04-26-2010, 07:25 AM   #11 (permalink)
 
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People should be allowed to do what they like with their bodies, it hasn't got anything to do with moral decay.
What's morally reprehensible is ridiculous drug laws that lock people up for years for possession, or producing their own marijuana because they have chronic pain and just want some ****ing relief.
In the UK at the moment there's a "problem" with the so-called "legal highs". seems the only problem is that they cause similar pleasurable effects as some known illegal drugs. OHNO IT MAKES YOU FEEL GOOD WE MUST BAN IT!
Mephedrone was very recently banned, but even before that they were seizing it from people and packages containing it retained by Royal Mail, in acts that can only be described as THEFT, as it was not yet illegal.

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Thirdly, I will point out something I have said on SAS a million times--the fact that liquor is legal and pot isnt is complete insanity as pot is so much more benign than alcohol.
Yep. And even government advisors can't change that, at least not in my country::
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...id-nutt-sacked
Because HEY wouldn't want people thinking it was okay to take ectasy but binge drinking is fine!

edit: I also often ponder whether drug laws don't make things a lot worse. if certain drugs were legal they would be properly regulated, kids wouldn't be shooting up god knows what in grimey back alleys, crime networks would dissolve etc
just some thoughts

edit: good article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...rugs-john-gray
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Old 04-26-2010, 09:00 AM   #12 (permalink)
 
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If the government put a tiny fraction of the effort into finding ways to make drugs safer, instead of criminalising them, then there wouldn't be a major drugs problem at all.

Get scientists working on discovering safe but effective recreational drugs, and I'm sure people would prefer them to illegal, potentially dangerous ones. The powers that be will never allow this to happen though, even though it could save millions of lives.
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Old 04-26-2010, 09:16 AM   #13 (permalink)
 
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^that'll just push people to go the next step, which would be the "new" legal boundary. The raised bar will no longer have that zip it once had. That's why people become addicted to more potent drugs in the long run.

Escaping from one's problems is NEVER morally acceptable.
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Old 04-26-2010, 12:23 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
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I still don't understand why people associate current laws with ethics. They are two separate issues.
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Old 04-26-2010, 12:48 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
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If drugs had zero side effects this question wouldn't be asked and 100% of the population would use them.

I salute a future of next generation super drugs that turn us into gods!
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:40 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by broseph View Post
Let's do marijuana first. The active ingredient, THC, is almost completely harmless. If a vaporizer is used, there are almost no negative health effects. It can trigger schizophrenia in predispositioned individuals, so lets just limit it to mentally healthy individuals. Marijuana is also completely nonaddictive. I think it's OK to use it as a means of relieving stress and opening yourself up to new ideas, so long as one doesn't become mentally dependent on it.

I think mushrooms and possibly acid would fall into the same category. So long as these two drugs are used responsibly by mentally healthy individuals they don't cause any significant problems. If one senses a bad trip coming on they can take a certain anti-psychotic medicine, thorazine I think, that'll calm you down. I haven't done these myself yet, so if you have please discuss your experiences.

Now we have cocaine, MDMA, and other feel-good drugs. They make you feel great, but don't really lead to any long-term personal improvement. Doing them can make you want to do them again and again. They don't really let you appreciate life when you're sober again, unlike marijuana and some hallucinogens.

Personally, whenever I've gone on a massive session of marijuana consumption I've always come out with knowing something new about myself. After one profound experience I actually quit smoking for a little while because I could appreciate life sober and had zero desire for further altering my state of mind.

Thoughts?
I think you are way off. I'm sick of stoners preaching there's no negative effects. Dope can make you ratty as hell, paranoid and can have negative effects on your memory. I have a brother stoned all the time, smoked it practically every day for 15 years. I've seen others the same.

Acid can make you have horrendous trips and affect you years later after taking it.

Most main stream illegal drugs are illegal for good reason.

People saying let people do what they want with their bodies, therefore legalise this would not work either because you would have pushers forcing others to get addicted.
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Old 04-26-2010, 02:29 PM   #17 (permalink)
 
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I think you are way off. I'm sick of stoners preaching there's no negative effects. Dope can make you ratty as hell, paranoid and can have negative effects on your memory. I have a brother stoned all the time, smoked it practically every day for 15 years. I've seen others the same.

Acid can make you have horrendous trips and affect you years later after taking it.

Most main stream illegal drugs are illegal for good reason.

People saying let people do what they want with their bodies, therefore legalise this would not work either because you would have pushers forcing others to get addicted.
The effects can vary from person to person, but they've been nothing but good for me. I've been vaporizing daily for the last three months. Prior to that I was smoking 1-3 times a week. In my 5 years of smoking I've never had a single panic attack. I have a 3.9 GPA and am double majoring in engineering and physics. Don't try to tell me it has a bad effect on my memory. Since I started vaping daily I've been in a much more stable state of mind and I'm always smiling even when life is ****ting on me. Smoking lets be step aside from my problems and let me look at them from a better more positive more perspective.
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Old 04-26-2010, 06:38 PM   #18 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low View Post
I think you are way off. I'm sick of stoners preaching there's no negative effects. Dope can make you ratty as hell, paranoid and can have negative effects on your memory. I have a brother stoned all the time, smoked it practically every day for 15 years. I've seen others the same.

Acid can make you have horrendous trips and affect you years later after taking it.

Most main stream illegal drugs are illegal for good reason.

People saying let people do what they want with their bodies, therefore legalise this would not work either because you would have pushers forcing others to get addicted.
So basically what you are saying is people lives should be wrecked by the system, just because they do drugs. Once they get caught with drugs, they forfeit any future opportunities to be a model citizen.

You can talk about negative effects all you want, but no drug is more detrimental than the effects of prohibition itself on society. A creation of a class of criminals that wouldn't exist if drugs were legal and sold in pharmacies. What's the difference between drug dealers and legal drug pushers, those pharmaceutical companies that make those commercials with a woman prancing in a field and are like "take this, it'll help with bi-polar disorder!"
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Old 04-26-2010, 08:13 PM   #19 (permalink)
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So basically what you are saying is people lives should be wrecked by the system, just because they do drugs. Once they get caught with drugs, they forfeit any future opportunities to be a model citizen.

You can talk about negative effects all you want, but no drug is more detrimental than the effects of prohibition itself on society. A creation of a class of criminals that wouldn't exist if drugs were legal and sold in pharmacies.
No, you are putting words in my mouth, taking what I wrote out of context. No I wouldn't go that far. The system protects more people than it hurts by the way. People would be walking round zombied or punching windows through otherwise and property crime would be worse.

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You can talk about negative effects all you want, but no drug is more detrimental than the effects of prohibition itself on society.
Have you ever had a smackhead beating your sister up, threatening you on the phone to come to your house with a sledge hammer, whilst your half naked 10 month old nephew is passed threw a window?

Under age drinkers, booze hooligans - imagine that magnified, because that's what they would likely be doing instead. People simply off their tits assaulting and killing people, no I don't exagerate because even if you claim that some people are totally sound with drugs you will still have a percentage that can't handle it. Higher percentages of death and illness from drugs. No way any medicinal purposes claim outweighs that before you bother. Higher percentage of kids, just being kids and experimenting ending up on drugs in their adult lives because they get addicted. People not wanting to go on drugs forced by pushers / gangs of idiots etc.

Rediculous.

Please explain to me why heroin is a good thing for society. Because if you want to take away prohibitation for the sake of anti prohibitation that is effectively your standpoint.

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What's the difference between drug dealers and legal drug pushers, those pharmaceutical companies that make those commercials with a woman prancing in a field and are like "take this, it'll help with bi-polar disorder!"
Unbelievable. They aren't Albanian or Russian gangs involved in sex trafficing, child porn, murder etc?

they actually help with bi-polar disorder?
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Old 04-26-2010, 08:24 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Don't try to tell me it has a bad effect on my memory.
My brother forgets about half of what I tell him when he is stoned, that's literally by the way. No exageration. He says something then gets annoyed later because he has gotten it wrong in that he didn't say that, he said something else. He will be adament he is correct of course and get angry if you try to tell him otherwise because he's paranoid.

Not that I talk to him now anyway.
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