Why Adderall, but not...ritalin or caffeine? - Social Anxiety Forum
 
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-27-2010, 08:08 PM Thread Starter
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Why Adderall, but not...ritalin or caffeine?

(Looks like we've moved from MAOIs to stimulants in this forum. )

Maybe this is a dumb question, but why do so many get a positive effect from amphetamines like Adderall, but not ritalin or even caffeine? They're all stimulants and they all effect dopamine, right? When I took ritalin, it gave me a little energy, but made me shaky and didn't even make me pro-social. :/

Is it about strength? Hitting different receptors?
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-27-2010, 08:18 PM
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Ritalin acts as a reuptake inhibitor for norepinepherine and dopamine, and amphetamines are releasing agents, so very different mechanisms of action.

I've never read up on how caffeine hits your brain, so maybe someone else can answer that.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-27-2010, 08:29 PM
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I prefer BOTH MAOI + stimulant... why choose?

Adderall would probably make you shaky too, in that case. Dexedrine is ideal for people with anxiety disorders because of the favorable ratio of norepinephrine to dopamine release.

Caffeine is an adenosine antagonist, completely unrelated, and while stimulating, doesn't confer the same benefits. It's funny because I can tolerate amphetamine pretty well, but ever since I cut myself off from caffeine, it leaves me anxious all day any time I have even just a single coffee...
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-27-2010, 08:38 PM
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Ive never done any stims but I would like to try an amphetamine based on all the good reports.

I have tried many drugs with little success and it seems that the only way the get a true stimulant prescribed is to have ADHD. Its as if doctors automatically think that stimulants will make SA worse.

The findings I have read about low striatal D2 receptor densities in socially phobic persons makes me think that drugs such as Adderall would be and ideal treatment. Ah well...I guess doctors are just dumber than their patients sometimes....
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-27-2010, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Himi Jendrix View Post
Ive never done any stims but I would like to try an amphetamine based on all the good reports.

I have tried many drugs with little success and it seems that the only way the get a true stimulant prescribed is to have ADHD. Its as if doctors automatically think that stimulants will make SA worse.

The findings I have read about low striatal D2 receptor densities in socially phobic persons makes me think that drugs such as Adderall would be and ideal treatment. Ah well...I guess doctors are just dumber than their patients sometimes....
Adderall isn't really ideal... the dextrorotary stimulants like dexedrine, desoxyn, and even focalin would probably be a better fit. NE release will almost doubtlessly INCREASE anxiety, and I can tell you it definitely does. It's definitely a prosocial drug, but ESPECIALLY those with comorbid GAD, panic disorder, or even a physical aspect to their SAD, it tends to exacerbate these things.

That being said, the primary issue you're overlooking is receptor downregulation. Stimulants aren't really a preferable option for something like "low striatal D2 receptor densities" because over time it will only make this problem WORSE, not better, and so eventually the net effect even with a stimulant's dopamine release is unlikely to be much better than your old baseline. As social anxiety is almost exclusively a chronic disorder, this is a very legitimate issue. I wouldn't be so quick to dismissively call these doctors dumb, the problem just isn't so simple...
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-28-2010, 01:05 AM
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a few beers (or benzos)+ritalin = great time.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-28-2010, 01:21 AM
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I prefer BOTH MAOI + stimulant... why choose?
Probably because most doctors would prefer to prescribe neither, and almost no doctor would dare to mix the two as they're on the list of things that should not be mixed as it could kill you.

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Dexedrine is ideal for people with anxiety disorders because of the favorable ratio of norepinephrine to dopamine release.
Despite the strong warning that it's contraindicated in patients with significant anxiety, it sure doesn't increase my anxiety. It seems to actually have a bit of a calming effect on me.

While it clearly has a pro-social effect, I'm really taking it for the antidepressant effect. It's the only thing that lifts the veil of darkness & misery from my life, making me feel that living yet another day isn't such a bad idea.

DEA agents, being on par with Nazi war criminals, should be executed for crimes against humanity. They are guilty of inflicting mass suffering upon legitimate patients.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-28-2010, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by wassubie View Post
(Looks like we've moved from MAOIs to stimulants in this forum. )

Maybe this is a dumb question, but why do so many get a positive effect from amphetamines like Adderall, but not ritalin or even caffeine? They're all stimulants and they all effect dopamine, right? When I took ritalin, it gave me a little energy, but made me shaky and didn't even make me pro-social. :/

Is it about strength? Hitting different receptors?
I dont really know the reason why ritalin is anxiogenic and amphetamine anxiolytic, however most people here have experienced that.

Personally i love cafeine Drink lots of energy drinks a day, they help me a TON.

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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-28-2010, 05:40 AM
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I've never read up on how caffeine hits your brain, so maybe someone else can answer that.
Caffeine is an adenosine antagonist, the net result of this mechanism is basically a 'tonic' increase in dopamine. Amphetamines on the other hand cause a "phasic" increase in dopamine. Whats the difference between tonic and phasic? Basically tonic is usually considered to be weaker, slower and milder during it's fase of action potential, while phasic is powerful, faster and stronger at increasing levels of the neurotransmitter (in this case dopamine) during it's action potential.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-29-2010, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks rock. Since you seem to know everything about meds, can you say a little more about propylhexedrine? You mentioned it once before as a cheap OTC Adderall alternative and I'm now curious...
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-14-2010, 10:48 PM
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Just a bump of the vast amount of knowledge in this thread.
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