Whats the strongest/most potent benzo? - Social Anxiety Forum
X

Download the SAS Android App

Or switch to mobile version of the forums

X

Download the SAS iPhone App

Or switch to mobile version of the forums

Help/FAQLog InJoin SAS
Go Back   Social Anxiety Forum > Recovery > Medication

Reply
Old 05-31-2007, 04:36 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
ThirdEyeGrind's Avatar
 
Status: ThirdEyeGrind
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: United States
Gender: Male
Age: 28
Posts: 1,284



Default Whats the strongest/most potent benzo?

I've been on Clonazepam for a while and am thinking of asking my doctor for a different benzo. What's the strongest/most potent?
ThirdEyeGrind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2007, 04:51 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
korey's Avatar
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mississippi, USA
Gender: Male
Age: 26
Posts: 1,936



Default

Flunitrazepam is probably the most potent being as it was taken off the market because it was too strong for conventional use (it's the originator of the whole "date-rape" thing).

However, if Klonopin isn't potent enough for you, then Xanax is probably your final option.
__________________
Rx:
Wellbutrin SR 300mg, Eskalith CR 900mg, Luvox 100mg

Things I have tried:
Lexapro, Zoloft, Celexa, Prozac, Paxil, Effexor XR, Remeron, Wellbutrin SR, Eskalith CR, Topamax, Valium, Xanax, Ativan, Ambien, Restoril, Desyrel, Ritalin, Adderall, Dexedrine, Inderal, Lopressor, Thorazine, Lamictal, Abilify, Depakote, Geodon, Seroquel, doxepin, chloral hydrate
korey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2007, 05:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
UltraShy's Avatar
 
Status: Surrounded by Sadness
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Milwaukee, WI (BDSM sadist, Libertarian)
Gender: Male
Age: 41
Posts: 31,356



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by korey
Flunitrazepam is probably the most potent being as it was taken off the market because it was too strong...
Better known by the brand name Rohypnol, it was never on the market in the US. It was brought across the border from Mexico where it's used as a sleeping pill.

The DEA makes a big deal about how it's "10 times more potent than Valium". Well, here's a news flash for the DEA: so is Xanax, you morons! The 10 mg of Xanax I take in a day = 100 mg of Valium: ten times more potent (per mg), yet I still don't rape myself.

This date rape thing is pure politics. They blame Rohypnol as that sounds like a scary drug. They seem to forget that the rape happened after it was slipped into one of the 15 drinks little Ms. Coed downed that evening at the frat party. Alcohol couldn't possibly have anything to do with it, even though it's well known to cause blackouts when used in staggering amounts like that. It has to be a pill as we need something to blame and vodka just isn't very sensational for the news media.

Quote:
However, if Klonopin isn't potent enough for you, then Xanax is probably your final option.
I'd say there is no such thing as one benzo being more potent than another. They all do much the same at equivalent dosages (such as 1 mg Xanax doing about the same as 10 mg Valium). Some people make a big deal out of high potency vs low potency benzos, but they're only talking about potency in terms of milligrams -- does it matter how it one takes more or less mgs to do the same job? Any benzo tablet is mostly filler anyhow. If you want some idea of how much a milligram is, consider that a packet of Sweet N' Low weighs 1,000 mgs.
__________________
I wonder what reason I have to live
Desperately I have searched for a meaning
Is it now time for me to let go of the world
UltraShy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2007, 05:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
korey's Avatar
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mississippi, USA
Gender: Male
Age: 26
Posts: 1,936



Default

Sorry, I didn't meant to confuse. When I say "potency," I mean a smaller mg to anxiety relief ratio (yes, I'm aware that anxiety relief can't really be quantified accurately, but the idea remains valid...I hope ). Klonopin and Xanax are probably rated as the two most potent benzos when people talk about how much it takes of each one to relieve their anxiety. With both, it's usually anywhere from 0.25 to 2mg per dose (estimating there), which is much smaller than doses of Valium or other high-mass benzos that would achieve the same anxiety relief. I suggested Xanax because it's about on par with Klonopin, only Xanax hits the brain with more of a punch because it lasts so shortly. Klonopin is strong when it comes to anxiety relief, but it is more like a subtle "easing-off" of anxiety. Frankly, I prefer the brain punch that Xanax provides because anxiety isn't something I enjoy experiencing, but to each his own
__________________
Rx:
Wellbutrin SR 300mg, Eskalith CR 900mg, Luvox 100mg

Things I have tried:
Lexapro, Zoloft, Celexa, Prozac, Paxil, Effexor XR, Remeron, Wellbutrin SR, Eskalith CR, Topamax, Valium, Xanax, Ativan, Ambien, Restoril, Desyrel, Ritalin, Adderall, Dexedrine, Inderal, Lopressor, Thorazine, Lamictal, Abilify, Depakote, Geodon, Seroquel, doxepin, chloral hydrate
korey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2007, 06:07 PM   #5 (permalink)
Nae
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,117



Default re: Whats the strongest/most potent benzo?

Probably midazolam. I'm not sure how well it is for treating anxiety as they use it frequently to knock people out for minor surgery and stuff.
Nae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2007, 06:24 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
korey's Avatar
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mississippi, USA
Gender: Male
Age: 26
Posts: 1,936



Default Re: re: Whats the strongest/most potent benzo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nae
Probably midazolam. I'm not sure how well it is for treating anxiety as they use it frequently to knock people out for minor surgery and stuff.
Also known as Versed, I believe. I saw some videos on YouTube the other day of people receiving IV anesthesia, and one lady asked what she was getting, and the nurse said "Versed", and the lady was so happy about it. She was like "VERSED! I LOOOVEEE VERSED!" (This was all before the nurse had even injected her with anything ). I suppose that woman had surgury often and was familiar with common IV sedatives.

My insurance website, which has a fairly all-inclusive database of every US prescription medication, doesn't even cover midazolam as a prescription medication. It lists it and the various forms it comes in (syringe, vial, and syrup), but it doesn't give any information further than that. I don't know if they even make midazolam in pill form
__________________
Rx:
Wellbutrin SR 300mg, Eskalith CR 900mg, Luvox 100mg

Things I have tried:
Lexapro, Zoloft, Celexa, Prozac, Paxil, Effexor XR, Remeron, Wellbutrin SR, Eskalith CR, Topamax, Valium, Xanax, Ativan, Ambien, Restoril, Desyrel, Ritalin, Adderall, Dexedrine, Inderal, Lopressor, Thorazine, Lamictal, Abilify, Depakote, Geodon, Seroquel, doxepin, chloral hydrate
korey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2007, 07:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: New Jersey
Age: 25
Posts: 2,409



Default re: Whats the strongest/most potent benzo?

Maybe Rohypnol, although I have no idea (and most people probably wouldn't). But, out of benzos that are actually manufactured, IMO, I would have to say Xanax. Klonopin is potent, but Xanax is more hypnotic, so I actually feel the effects, whereas I know the Klonopin is doing something, but I'm never really aware of the effects. Maybe that's better that way, though.
__________________
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." -Hunter S. Thompson
Speak Easy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2007, 07:41 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: in the woods
Gender: Male
Age: 33
Posts: 3,548



Default re: Whats the strongest/most potent benzo?

It really doesn't matter, because high- or low-potency only means that the dose needs to be adjusted accordingly. Potency does not equal efficacy, safety, or reliability. The only thing it means is that you have a different number on your Rx bottle.

I would not base a decision re: drugs based on an arbitrary number!
__________________
Medication-related posts are for brainstorming purposes only. Talk to your doctor.

Rx- Dream Team of Parnate, Adderall, & Lamictal
Caedmon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2007, 07:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: in the woods
Gender: Male
Age: 33
Posts: 3,548



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraShy
Quote:
However, if Klonopin isn't potent enough for you, then Xanax is probably your final option.
I'd say there is no such thing as one benzo being more potent than another. They all do much the same at equivalent dosages (such as 1 mg Xanax doing about the same as 10 mg Valium). Some people make a big deal out of high potency vs low potency benzos, but they're only talking about potency in terms of milligrams -- does it matter how it one takes more or less mgs to do the same job?
I don't understand this either. It's like preferring a yellow tablet instead of a blue one.

There can be differences in terms of how benzos perform for different people (i.e. Klonopin causes relatively more depression in me versus Valium), but that has to do with how the drug works, NOT whether or not the tablet is white or pink, or if the number attached to it is 1.5 or 20.
__________________
Medication-related posts are for brainstorming purposes only. Talk to your doctor.

Rx- Dream Team of Parnate, Adderall, & Lamictal
Caedmon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2007, 11:35 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
korey's Avatar
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mississippi, USA
Gender: Male
Age: 26
Posts: 1,936



Default

Sorry. I responded in the manner I interpreted the poster's question (with regard to my own explanation of my interpretation of "potency" as described above), especially considering that Klonopin was no longer being effective for them.

The only benzos that are still prescribed exclusively for anxiety relief and that available to most people in pill form are Klonopin, Xanax, Valium, Ativan, Librium (Valium's older brother), Tranxene, and Serax. I don't have any experience with the latter three (except for the fact that Valium metabolizes into Serax, aka oxazepam), but they're all relatively old. I'm not saying they're not worth a shot, but I can't help but think that you're looking for something strong and fast-acting, which is what led me to my original suggestion of Xanax. Valium is fast-acting, but it metabolizes into two other benzos that are generally only used as sleep aids (temazepam and oxazepam), so I don't know if that's what you're looking for or not. I've never had the chance to try Ativan, so I can't give you any help on that one.

I didn't mean to be presumptuous.
__________________
Rx:
Wellbutrin SR 300mg, Eskalith CR 900mg, Luvox 100mg

Things I have tried:
Lexapro, Zoloft, Celexa, Prozac, Paxil, Effexor XR, Remeron, Wellbutrin SR, Eskalith CR, Topamax, Valium, Xanax, Ativan, Ambien, Restoril, Desyrel, Ritalin, Adderall, Dexedrine, Inderal, Lopressor, Thorazine, Lamictal, Abilify, Depakote, Geodon, Seroquel, doxepin, chloral hydrate
korey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2007, 04:18 AM   #11 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: New Jersey
Age: 25
Posts: 2,409



Default Re: re: Whats the strongest/most potent benzo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caedmon
Potency does not equal...safety...
I just thought about this, and wouldn't taking more pills increase metabolization, thus, furthering the possibility for damaged liver? So, wouldn't a more potent pill = fewer pills = less metabolization = safer on the liver?
__________________
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." -Hunter S. Thompson
Speak Easy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2007, 04:26 AM   #12 (permalink)
 
ThirdEyeGrind's Avatar
 
Status: ThirdEyeGrind
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: United States
Gender: Male
Age: 28
Posts: 1,284



Default Re: re: Whats the strongest/most potent benzo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG 124
Maybe Rohypnol, although I have no idea (and most people probably wouldn't). But, out of benzos that are actually manufactured, IMO, I would have to say Xanax. Klonopin is potent, but Xanax is more hypnotic, so I actually feel the effects, whereas I know the Klonopin is doing something, but I'm never really aware of the effects. Maybe that's better that way, though.
Since you seem to be one of the smartest persons on here (no offense to anyone else cause you all seem smart) I think I'll ask for this drug and see what he says, if not that then Xanax. Thankyou all.
ThirdEyeGrind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2007, 07:34 AM   #13 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: in the woods
Gender: Male
Age: 33
Posts: 3,548



Default Re: re: Whats the strongest/most potent benzo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG 124
I just thought about this, and wouldn't taking more pills increase metabolization, thus, furthering the possibility for damaged liver? So, wouldn't a more potent pill = fewer pills = less metabolization = safer on the liver?
I don't see how it would. The amount put into a pill is arbitrary, and generally based on what is a convenient amount for doctors to prescribe. It's the actual drug that's metabolized, not the filler substances, so in actuality the only thing determining the effect on one's liver is the cumulative dose taken. The number of pills doesn't matter. At least, this is my understanding, jealibeanz might know more.
__________________
Medication-related posts are for brainstorming purposes only. Talk to your doctor.

Rx- Dream Team of Parnate, Adderall, & Lamictal
Caedmon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2007, 08:30 AM   #14 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 54



Default Re: re: Whats the strongest/most potent benzo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG 124
I just thought about this, and wouldn't taking more pills increase metabolization, thus, furthering the possibility for damaged liver? So, wouldn't a more potent pill = fewer pills = less metabolization = safer on the liver?
In general short-acting benzos (xanax, ativan, oxazepam) are preferred for individuals with liver disease because there's less accumulation of drug. With longer acting benzos, there's greater accumulation and greater burden for those with liver problems. Furthermore, benzos like ativan, oxazepam that are broken down by conjugation are less affected by liver dysfunction. Benzos that require oxidation, (xanax, valium, clonazepam) etc. may have more problems with those with liver problems.

If you have no liver problems benzos are all safe and are very unlikely to cause any problems.

On the other hand, short-acting benzos have more rebound anxiety and withdrawal reactions than longer acting benzos like valium, clonazepam, etc. So both have their advantages and disadvantages. Unless you have liver disease or are taking other drugs that are associated with liver problems, I wouldn't worry about benzos causing liver problems.
Scrotacles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2007, 08:40 AM   #15 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: WA
Age: 38
Posts: 570



Default Re: re: Whats the strongest/most potent benzo?

Quote:
Since you seem to be one of the smartest persons on here (no offense to anyone else cause you all seem smart) I think I'll ask for this drug and see what he says, if not that then Xanax. Thankyou all.
It think it was already established that this medication is no longer manufactured, if it ever was in the United States. I'm curious as to the reason why you're seeking such a potent anti-anxiety med, and a benzo specifically. Klonopin is arguably the best option on the market for sustained anti-anxiety treatment. Just looking for something to knock you on your *** is a poor coping mechanism and your doctor will question your motives. In my experience, I can just walk into any shrink's office, say I heard about some drug and expect a prescription for it before I leave. So what would you say the Klonopin is failing to do? Would you be willing to modify your Klonopin prescription if it isn't performing adequately? This post resembles someone walking into a bar and saying "Gimme the strongest thing ya got!"

Also, to comment on Ativan since no one who has experience with this medication has yet posted, I don't recommend it. It may produce greater short-term effects but this was the first medication I was prescribed for my anxiety, I had to take it three times daily and I was either constantly psuedo-comatose or on the verge of panic. Missing a pill was disastrous and I actually did notice withdrawal symptoms with this as opposed to Klonopin which I rarely do.
path0gen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2007, 10:41 AM   #16 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: New Jersey
Age: 25
Posts: 2,409



Default Re: re: Whats the strongest/most potent benzo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AprilEthereal
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG 124
Maybe Rohypnol, although I have no idea (and most people probably wouldn't). But, out of benzos that are actually manufactured, IMO, I would have to say Xanax. Klonopin is potent, but Xanax is more hypnotic, so I actually feel the effects, whereas I know the Klonopin is doing something, but I'm never really aware of the effects. Maybe that's better that way, though.
Since you seem to be one of the smartest persons on here (no offense to anyone else cause you all seem smart) I think I'll ask for this drug and see what he says, if not that then Xanax. Thankyou all.
Haha, AprilEthereal, unfortunately, no doc in the U.S. can rx you Rohypnol, and to tell you the truth, I wouldn't even bring it up in an appt. since most people who even know about Rohypnol, might be misinterpreted as drug-seeking individuals. It's a shame that such potentially therapeutic meds are seen as such horrible drugs, just because of a few incidents. GHB is responsible for so many more date rape instances than Rohypnol, but yet, GHB is manufactured as Xyrem for narcolepsy. Let's not even get started on the absurdness behind American scheduled drug classes.
__________________
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." -Hunter S. Thompson
Speak Easy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2007, 10:50 AM   #17 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: New Jersey
Age: 25
Posts: 2,409



Default Re: re: Whats the strongest/most potent benzo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caedmon
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG 124
I just thought about this, and wouldn't taking more pills increase metabolization, thus, furthering the possibility for damaged liver? So, wouldn't a more potent pill = fewer pills = less metabolization = safer on the liver?
I don't see how it would. The amount put into a pill is arbitrary, and generally based on what is a convenient amount for doctors to prescribe. It's the actual drug that's metabolized, not the filler substances, so in actuality the only thing determining the effect on one's liver is the cumulative dose taken. The number of pills doesn't matter. At least, this is my understanding, jealibeanz might know more.
So say someone takes 10mg Valium and 1mg Xanax to feel the same effects, you don't think the liver toll would be worst on the Valium user since he is actually popping much more diazepam in order to reach the same efficacy level of the alprazolam (which is reached by 1/10 of the amount of diazepam)? Like you said, it's the actual drug which is metabolized, so if someone is taking 1mg Xanax and 10mg Valium, in order to reach the same therapeutic benefit, I think 10mg diazepam would be harder on the liver than 1mg alprazolam (Possible with any 2 benzos, but these are the most widely accepted benzo equivalency ratios that I could think of off the top of my head).
__________________
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." -Hunter S. Thompson
Speak Easy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2007, 11:12 AM   #18 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: New Jersey
Age: 25
Posts: 2,409



Default Re: re: Whats the strongest/most potent benzo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by path0gen
Also, to comment on Ativan since no one who has experience with this medication has yet posted, I don't recommend it.
I didn't like Ativan either. Funny that it seems to be every doc's first line benzo treatment. Anyone else get rx'ed Ativan as their first benzo? Keith, you did right?
__________________
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." -Hunter S. Thompson
Speak Easy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2007, 04:12 PM   #19 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 54



Default Re: re: Whats the strongest/most potent benzo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG 124
I think 10mg diazepam would be harder on the liver than 1mg alprazolam (Possible with any 2 benzos, but these are the most widely accepted benzo equivalency ratios that I could think of off the top of my head).
Unlikely that any benzo will cause damage to the liver but if you had to choose benzos that have a slightly greater theoretical risk for liver problems...librium and diazepam would carry a slighly greater risk. This has to do more with greater half-life (~100 hrs), intermediatory metabolites and due to metabolism via oxidation which is primarily mediated by liver.

On the other hand, benzos that are metabolized by conjugation (e.g. ativan) are unlikely to cause liver problems because the actual metabolism can occur not only in liver but also in GI tract, kidney, etc., there are no ativan intermediatory metabolites and ativan has a relatively shorter half-life.

Wrt alprazolam, although it has a short half-life, it is metabolized by oxidation that heavily relies on liver and it does have some minor metabolites which would put in between ativan and diazepam wrt to potential liver problems but like I said the chances of any benzo causing liver problems are almost nil. The thing to note is that it's not just the actual mg of drug that determines liver or other organ toxicity but the actuasl chemical structure, the way it's metabolized, etc.
Scrotacles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2007, 05:17 PM   #20 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Age: 36
Posts: 4,713



Default re: Whats the strongest/most potent benzo?

Boo.
I want benzos. You guys aren't getting addicted or selling it to junkies. Why can;t I have it?

Boo and triple boo to the paranoid health people, and that woman LDG mentioned.
Plus, why is my formatting double line spaced?

This evening is getting worse.

Ross
__________________
On to concentrate on bright things Stuck around in hopes to help, didnt seem like there was much left I could do anymore ... good luck and comfort to those who are on their own path and hope for those yet to take their first step! Much Love
yeah_yeah_yeah is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Survival of the fittest: We were the strongest sperm! AskJeeves Positive Thinking 20 10-30-2011 12:19 PM
Whats your stongest benzo for you? back2life Medication 32 03-27-2009 12:40 PM
What's the strongest SSRI for SA? X33 Medication 29 05-01-2008 09:18 AM
Whats your benzo dose? Noca Medication 28 11-19-2007 11:52 PM
What's the more potent benzo? getting by Medication 3 06-19-2007 01:34 PM

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:13 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® ©2000-2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc. User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.