The things i'm trying and going to try

[crayzyMed]

Currently i'm taking 50mg Sulpiride a day and started taking 40mg of buspar today.
I will probebly lower my buspar dose first tough as taking 40mg at once made me feel like total crap, however i do think it may be effective at higher doses if my serotonin autoreceptors desentisize. I can totally understand how ppl think this is crap wich might cause ppl to stop taking it too soon.
Will try doses up to 120mg.

Trivastal is coming my way, its a non sedating dopamine agonist, Provigil for extra motivation as i probebly wouldnt be able to get an amphetamine.

GHB --> I just use it as an euphorant, it doesnt work for my social anxiety, but i can use it responsible, max 2 doses every day.

Will probebly try to get agomelatine in the future.

AMT and 4FMP are coming my way, i would also experimet with them in daily low doses.


Complete list of things i may give a try:
Serotonin
Buspar--> 5HT1A agonist
Remeron--> May try it with betahistine to counteract its histamine antagonis action.
Agomelatine --> good 5HT2C antagonist
Ondansetron --> 5HT3 antagonis
Metoclopramide --> 5HT4 agonist
Tianeptine --> to lower serotonin
Cyproheptadine
AMT--> 5HT1A, 5HT4, 5HT2A agonist, but i might try to block its 5HT2A agonism with cyproheptadine
4FMP--> A mix between amphetamine and a small dose MDMA, i may try to use it daily in low doses as the only thing that seemed to work was MDMA for me but do not try this at home!!! Possible serotonin depletion could happen wich could make anxiety and depression alot worse for the long term!!

Dopamine
Deprenyl
Wellbutrin
Amphetamine
Ritalin
Trivastal or Mirapex as dopamine agonists
Amineptine

Gaba
GHB
Etifoxine --> β2 β3 agonist

CCK
Proglumide --> CCK antagonis, has an anti anxiety effect.

Sigma agonists
Opipramol
noscapine

Nootropics
Cerebrolysin --> The most effective nootropic availeble, great anxiolotic effects have been reported. You have to inject it tough.

[crayzyMed]

Today i've taken half the buspar dose as those brainzaps were way too intensen, today i only got bad brainzaps after taking it but they stopped, i only notice a reduced feeling of wellbeing now. Again completely reminds me of how i felt the week after taking MDMA.


Edit: think i'm just gonna stop taking this crap, will try it another time in combination with pindolol, as i dont have enough prescribed and its much cheaper if i order it online.

[euphoria]

Even if they theoretically don't interact, some of them haven't even been studied that much on a singular basis, let alone in a massive combination. I think you are pushing your luck by taking so many drugs, especially those without a long safety record.

I went through a similar period of taking many different drugs & supplements in the past, and now my brain is totally messed up... It's hard to know exactly what caused it, but as a rule, making yourself a lab rat is never a good thing.

By the way, what is your plan to prevent tolerance? Many there are susceptible to this, but for example, GHB only took several months to cause tolerance for me and the resulting anhedonia never fully disappeared...

[crayzyMed]

Originally Posted by euphoria

Even if they theoretically don't interact, some of them haven't even been studied that much on a singular basis, let alone in a massive combination. I think you are pushing your luck by taking so many drugs, especially those without a long safety record.

I went through a similar period of taking many different drugs & supplements in the past, and now my brain is totally messed up... It's hard to know exactly what caused it, but as a rule, making yourself a lab rat is never a good thing.

By the way, what is your plan to prevent tolerance? Many there are susceptible to this, but for example, GHB only took several months to cause tolerance for me and the resulting anhedonia never fully disappeared...

Thx for your response.

If i got GBL, i usually take around 2 doses a day, and i've allways taken very low doses and never really noticed a tolerance, but it doesnt work for my anxiety anywhay, it makes sitting at home euphoric but i'm still afraid of social interaction, i really have no clue why this is, as like everything reports it to be working...
Maybe because it doesnt really work for my anxiety i never abused it, if it made me feel normal as MDMA i may have gotten crazy over it.

I've also tried hydrocodone for my anxiety but it didnt work either, wich is a shame as with proglumide/memantine and naltrexone it may be possible to use opiates on a daily basis.

I'm also not planning on taking them altogheter, altough i allways want to take as much things as possible "tuning the brain". Well to be honest, if i had the money i would take them all togheter, but i just cant afford it.

The only things that seem to work for my anxiety are MDMA and amphetamine, but i tried street amphetamine in low doses in the past but that seemed to intensifie my anxiety, it only kills my anxiety when i'm taking doses wich make me high, wich i refuse to do on a daily basis.

MDMA in treshold doses works tough, as does MCPP wich kills my anxiety for 50%. MCPP makes me feel normal, but at the same time i'm still not comfarteble in social situations, maybe because the 5HT2C agonism kills some of the benefits.

I refuse to take MAOI's as i would end up dead by taking MDMA when drunk or something like that.

This would probebly my first stack:
AMT --> Was used as an antidepressant in the SSRI called indopan.
Very low dose 4FMP --> as an amphetamine replacement and weak serotonin releaser, it releases serotonin but doesnt deplete it.
Agomelatine --> 5HT2C antagonis
Provigol --> For motivation and energie
Trivastal --> Motivation, energie and help with social anxiety.

I ordered all of these except agomelatine, i might try to get it from a docter.

[crayzyMed]

Can you also tell me what happened? What were you taking when your brain got messed up?

[Vini Vidi Vici]

Agomelatine is awesome. in my opinion. Unfortunately i live in the US, so i have to pay like 115 dollars for it. but its great in reducing anxiety and depression. i definetly recommend it. However, you have to be careful, because it is a melatonin agonist. Melatonin regulates the bodies sleep/wake cycle, so if you take too much agomelatine at the wrong time....maybe you could end up with some weird problems from disrupting the circadian rhythm

[crayzyMed]

Originally Posted by Vini Vidi Vici

Agomelatine is awesome. in my opinion. Unfortunately i live in the US, so i have to pay like 115 dollars for it. but its great in reducing anxiety and depression. i definetly recommend it. However, you have to be careful, because it is a melatonin agonist. Melatonin regulates the bodies sleep/wake cycle, so if you take too much agomelatine at the wrong time....maybe you could end up with some weird problems from disrupting the circadian rhythm

Thank you, i havent read much reports about agomelatine for anxiety. Personally i see the melatonin agonism as a benefit to deepen sleep, melatine also hasnt been shown to be bad for someones health so i think it's going to be fine.

[Vini Vidi Vici]

Originally Posted by crayzyMed

Thx for your response.

If i got GBL, i usually take around 2 doses a day, and i've allways taken very low doses and never really noticed a tolerance, but it doesnt work for my anxiety anywhay, it makes sitting at home euphoric but i'm still afraid of social interaction, i really have no clue why this is, as like everything reports it to be working...
Maybe because it doesnt really work for my anxiety i never abused it, if it made me feel normal as MDMA i may have gotten crazy over it.

I've also tried hydrocodone for my anxiety but it didnt work either, wich is a shame as with proglumide/memantine and naltrexone it may be possible to use opiates on a daily basis.

I'm also not planning on taking them altogheter, altough i allways want to take as much things as possible "tuning the brain". Well to be honest, if i had the money i would take them all togheter, but i just cant afford it.

The only things that seem to work for my anxiety are MDMA and amphetamine, but i tried street amphetamine in low doses in the past but that seemed to intensifie my anxiety, it only kills my anxiety when i'm taking doses wich make me high, wich i refuse to do on a daily basis.

MDMA in treshold doses works tough, as does MCPP wich kills my anxiety for 50%. MCPP makes me feel normal, but at the same time i'm still not comfarteble in social situations, maybe because the 5HT2C agonism kills some of the benefits.

I refuse to take MAOI's as i would end up dead by taking MDMA when drunk or something like that.

This would probebly my first stack:
AMT --> Was used as an antidepressant in the SSRI called indopan.
Very low dose 4FMP --> as an amphetamine replacement and weak serotonin releaser, it releases serotonin but doesnt deplete it.
Agomelatine --> 5HT2C antagonis
Provigol --> For motivation and energie
Trivastal --> Motivation, energie and help with social anxiety.

I ordered all of these except agomelatine, i might try to get it from a docter.

Just a suggestion,- i know it sounds like it doesn't matter, but it would be really wise to check the CYP enzymes responsible for each drug's metabolism. Because Many drugs can be metabolized by the same enzyme, take CYP2D6, for example. And some drugs can can inhibit the enzyme, so you could end up with a dangerously high concentration of some drug, and it would be hard to tell what drugs was causing an interaction......unfortunately, i am an idiot, and i neglected to check the CYP metabolism thingys....and i almost killed myself accidentaly. And i had no idea what or which of the 6 different things i was taking was causing the interaction.

[crayzyMed]

Originally Posted by Vini Vidi Vici

Just a suggestion,- i know it sounds like it doesn't matter, but it would be really wise to check the CYP enzymes responsible for each drug's metabolism. Because Many drugs can be metabolized by the same enzyme, take CYP2D6, for example. And some drugs can can inhibit the enzyme, so you could end up with a dangerously high concentration of some drug, and it would be hard to tell what drugs was causing an interaction......unfortunately, i am an idiot, and i neglected to check the CYP metabolism thingys....and i almost killed myself accidentaly. And i had no idea what or which of the 6 different things i was taking was causing the interaction.

Yes, i didnt think of that at all, thank you for mentioning this

[rocknroll714]

I do NOT recommend you try 4-fluoroamphetamine (4-FA). The para-substituted amphetamines are dangerous territory. Many of them are known to produce severe and permanent serotonergic neurotoxicity with just a single dose, especially the -halogenated derivatives (-bromo, -chloro, -fluoro, -iodo). 4-FA has been shown to be the least neurotoxic of the four, but I still wouldn't go anywhere near it; and yes, it is still quite significantly brain-damaging. Not to mention the para-substituted amphetamines are not known to produce entactogenic effects (or the so-called MDMA-like "magic"), unlike the methylenedioxy-substituted compounds, potentially as a result of having a higher reuptake inhibition efficacy relative to releasing efficacy (as in, they're more RI-like in comparison to MDxx which are more RA-like; hence, lower autoreceptor bypass and greater SSRI-like similarity).

I recommend you stick with alpha-alkylated tryptamines, methylenedioxy-substituted aminoindanes, and some of the other compounds like indanylaminopropane if you want a good and safe serotonin releaser. Refer to the list I sent you in PM. Seriously, it is not ****ing worth the consequences to screw up and irreversibly thrash the mood and anxiety-associated pathways of your brain even worse than they already are.

[crayzyMed]

Originally Posted by rocknroll714

I do NOT recommend you try 4-fluoroamphetamine (4-FA). The para-substituted amphetamines are dangerous territory. Many of them are known to produce severe and permanent serotonergic neurotoxicity with just a single dose, especially the -halogenated derivatives (-bromo, -chloro, -fluoro, -iodo). 4-FA has been shown to be the least neurotoxic of the four, but I still wouldn't go anywhere near it; and yes, it is still quite significantly brain-damaging. Not to mention the para-substituted amphetamines are not known to produce entactogenic effects (or the so-called MDMA-like "magic"), unlike the methylenedioxy-substituted compounds, potentially as a result of having a higher reuptake inhibition efficacy relative to releasing efficacy (as in, they're more RI-like in comparison to MDxx which are more RA-like; hence, lower autoreceptor bypass and greater SSRI-like similarity).

I recommend you stick with alpha-alkylated tryptamines, methylenedioxy-substituted aminoindanes, and some of the other compounds like indanylaminopropane if you want a good and safe serotonin releaser. Refer to the list I sent you in PM. Seriously, it is not ****ing worth the consequences to screw up and irreversibly thrash the mood and anxiety-associated pathways of your brain even worse than they already are.

According to this study it doesnt permanently deplete serotonin:


But i'l try AMT on its own first, may be good enough..

Comparison of 4-chloro-, 4-bromo- and 4-fluoroamphetamine in rats: Drug levels in brain and effects on brain serotonin metabolism

R. W. Fuller, J. C. Baker, K. W. Perry and B. B. Molloy

The Lilly Research Laboratories, Eli Lilly and Company, Indianapolis, Indiana 46206, USA

The ability of 4-chloroamphetamine, 4-bromoamphetamine, and 4-fluoroamphetamine to deplete brain 5-hydroxyindoles and some pharmacokinetic properties of these drugs were compared in rats. Half-lives of the three compounds in rat brain were 3.7, 4.4, and 5.7 hr, respectively for the 4-fluoro, 4-chloro, and 4-bromo amphetamines. The tendency of the drugs to be associated with paniculate material in brain homogenates or to prefer an organic versus an aqueous phase in vitro varied in the order 4-bromo > 4-chloro > 4-fluoro. This order of activity also applied to the inhibition of monoamine oxidase in vitro. All three 4-haloamphetamines reduced the activity of tryptophan hydroxylase and lowered the levels of serotonin and 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid in whole brain initially. With 4-chloroamphetamine and 4-bromoamphetamine, the depletion of brain 5-hydroxyindoles lasted for at least a week. 4-Fluoroamphetamine, in contrast, lowered serotonin and 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid levels only for short times (2–6 hr) after drug injection, and 5-hydroxyindole levels were essentially back to normal within 24 hr. Prior treatment with an uptake inhibitor prevented the serotonin depletion by all of the haloamphetamines, indicating they all required the membrane uptake pump for entry into the neurone. The effect of 4-bromoamphetamine, like that of 4-chloroamphetamine, could be reversed by subsequent injection of the uptake inhibitor after short periods but not after 24–48 hr. The failure of 4-fluoroamphetamine to produce a long-lasting depletion of brain serotonin like that produced by 4-chloroamphetamine or 4-bromoamphetamine may reflect the inability of the fluoro-compound to be metabolized in the same way as the other haloamphetamines.

[rocknroll714]

Originally Posted by crayzyMed

According to this study it doesnt permanently deplete serotonin:


But i'l try AMT on its own first, may be good enough..

4-Fluoroamphetamine has affinity values of 939 ± 76, 28.0 ± 1.8, and 51.5 ± 1.7 at SERT, NET, and DAT, respectively. So in other words, it's a relatively weak serotonin releaser, and on account of its lower SERT affinity, produces significantly less serotonergic neurotoxicity in comparison to related drugs like 4-chloroamphetamine and 4-methylamphetamine, but still likely more so than amphetamine or methamphetamine.

Source (for the affinities): http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/re...4.080101v1.pdf

So even if it's only relatively mildly neurotoxic, it's too imbalanced to be useful if you ask me. It's essentially an NDRA, being some 33-fold lower of a 5-HT releaser than NE, and 18-fold lower of a 5-HT releaser than DA.

[crayzyMed]

Originally Posted by rocknroll714

4-Fluoroamphetamine has affinity values of 939 ± 76, 28.0 ± 1.8, and 51.5 ± 1.7 at SERT, NET, and DAT, respectively. So in other words, it's a relatively weak serotonin releaser, and on account of its lower SERT affinity, produces significantly less serotonergic neurotoxicity in comparison to related drugs like 4-chloroamphetamine and 4-methylamphetamine, but still likely more so than amphetamine or methamphetamine.

Source (for the affinities): http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/re...4.080101v1.pdf

So even if it's only relatively mildly neurotoxic, it's too imbalanced to be useful if you ask me. It's essentially an NDRA, being some 33-fold lower of a 5-HT releaser than NE, and 18-fold lower of a 5-HT releaser than DA.

Its wort a try i gues.. (yes i'm very stubborn).
From the experiences i've read about this it feels like a "social stimulant", a cross between amphetamine and some MDMA.

maybe it just releases enough serotonin to be social tough, i'm not looking for real magic on a daily basis, just something that boosts my neurotransmittes enough to kill my anxiety.
The long half life is a big plus too.
And IMO neurotoxicity would be extremely mild if i just take 15mg a day, compared to big recreational doses.

[eva]

I've been taking Buspirone for two weeks. I'm taking 15mg - 2 pills AM, 2 pills PM. I get vertigo and I think it's making me feel way more depressed. I cry all the time for no reason, I feel guilty, and everything feels hopeless. Did you ever feel that way? Is that normal? Does it go away with time?

Just curious about your experience, thanks

[crayzyMed]

Originally Posted by eva

I've been taking Buspirone for two weeks. I'm taking 15mg - 2 pills AM, 2 pills PM. I get vertigo and I think it's making me feel way more depressed. I cry all the time for no reason, I feel guilty, and everything feels hopeless. Did you ever feel that way? Is that normal? Does it go away with time?

Just curious about your experience, thanks

I felt like complete crap, didnt make me feel mental worse tough, but your dose is way to low, i dont think buspar would work in doses lower then 45 mg.

[crayzyMed]

So i managed to order some MDAI, its a non neurotoxic mdma analogue described as an antidepressant, recreational it doenst seem exciting at all as it doesnt product much of a high, but to me it did sound very exciting.

I will experiment with taking a daily low dose of it, i know MDMA lasts me feeling normal 12 hours after mdma stopped working so maybe MDAI does the same thing, needing me to only taking 1 dose a day!

I do NOT recommend this to anyone as its very experimental, it could cause severe symptons of serotonin downregulation/depleten, i'm crazy enoug to give it a try tough.

I'm thinking of adding in Desoxypipradrol for stimulation and motivation. AMT and 4FMP are also coming my way so i'l experiment a few weeks with them to find out what is the best combination.
MDAI does seem alot more appealing then 4FMP for my purpose.

An close related analogue of MDAI called MMAI has been researched as a potential antidepressant:

5-Methoxy-6-methyl-2-aminoindane (MMAI), is a drug and research chemical developed in the 1990s by a team led by David E. Nichols at Purdue University. It acts as a non-neurotoxic highly selective serotonin releasing agent (SSRA) in animals and a putative empathogen in humans.[1][2][3] It has been shown to relieve stress-induced depression in rats more robustly than sertraline.[4] It has been suggested that SSRAs like MMAI and 4-MTA could be developed as novel antidepressants with a faster onset of action and superior efficacy to current antidepressants such as the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs).[5] MMAI is closely related to MDAI and MDMAI.

IMO compounds like that could be extremely effective fast acting antidepressants/anxiolotics.

I know those compounds could cause euphoria in high doses but i keep GBL to do that, I beleive GBL is the best candidate for hedonism.

[Medline]

Originally Posted by crayzyMed

So i managed to order some MDAI, its a non neurotoxic mdma analogue described as an antidepressant, recreational it doenst seem exciting at all as it doesnt product much of a high, but to me it did sound very exciting.

I will experiment with taking a daily low dose of it, i know MDMA lasts me feeling normal 12 hours after mdma stopped working so maybe MDAI does the same thing, needing me to only taking 1 dose a day!

I do NOT recommend this to anyone as its very experimental, it could cause severe symptons of serotonin downregulation/depleten, i'm crazy enoug to give it a try tough.

I'm thinking of adding in Desoxypipradrol for stimulation and motivation. AMT and 4FMP are also coming my way so i'l experiment a few weeks with them to find out what is the best combination.
MDAI does seem alot more appealing then 4FMP for my purpose.

An close related analogue of MDAI called MMAI has been researched as a potential antidepressant:


IMO compounds like that could be extremely effective fast acting antidepressants/anxiolotics.

I know those compounds could cause euphoria in high doses but i keep GBL to do that, I beleive GBL is the best candidate for hedonism.

I hope you have the necessary meds (eg. benzos, haloperidol, carvedilol, cyproheptadine...) and experience to react correctly if something goes wrong when experimenting with all those substances you listed above. If you want to use potent drugs like Desoxy you should know that relatively small measurement errors can cause pretty severe OD symptoms (insomnia for days, psychosis...).

[crayzyMed]

Originally Posted by Medline

I hope you have the necessary meds (eg. benzos, haloperidol, carvedilol, cyproheptadine...) and experience to react correctly if something goes wrong when experimenting with all those substances you listed above. If you want to use potent drugs like Desoxy you should know that relatively small measurement errors can cause pretty severe OD symptoms (insomnia for days, psychosis...).

Thx for your response.
I have experience with drugs (i used to take MDMA twice a week for 2 years), i also have some experience with amphetamine so i do know what kind of insomnia they could cause).
I will keep benzo's at hand to let me sleep, I will also order cyproheptadine. Its 5HT2A antagonism is also of intrest to me.

I have done an experiment like this with sreet amphetamine before but it didnt really work in normal doses (10mg) and made me paranoid, I've also tried MDPV in the past but it made me waay to paranoid and intensified my anxiety, i beleive that one is bad for anxiety but better for ADHD like conditions.

Are you planning on taking desoxy again medline? I did read it worked for you for a while.

[jim_morrison]

Originally Posted by crayzyMed

Remeron--> May try it with betahistine to counteract its histamine antagonis action.

Why not just use Modafinil? it's pro-histaminergic properties should counteract mirtazapine induced daytime lethargy pretty well.

[crayzyMed]

Originally Posted by jim_morrison

Why not just use Modafinil? it's pro-histaminergic properties should counteract mirtazapine induced daytime lethargy pretty well.

Hmm didnt think of that, at this point i'm unsure tough wheter i would go on remeron, i'm experimenting with other things first.