The Greenhorn's Guide To Nardil

[colonelpoop]

After receiving a lot of pm's about Nardil and having absolutely nothing to do right now, I thought I would make a thread for the people on here who have just started taking this drug and are looking for help. When I first started taking Nardil, I went a whole two weeks without going poop, not to mention that I had gained 10 pounds during that time as well. I got really worried, asking myself "When I will poop again?" "Could that 10 pounds I gained be 10 pounds of poop?" "Could I die of poop poisoning?" Stuff like this was always going through my mind, I had a lot of side effects and was very confused and at times quite miserable with what I had to put up with. It wasn't until I realized that my metabolism had slowed down and I was eating 4-5 times as many sweets as I once did that this was the cause of my weight gain. Talking to other Nardil users, I quickly learned that they all went through the same things and eventually regained their ability to poop after a short while. Maybe this thread will help some people out or generate good questions.

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What foods should I avoid?

*Wine. I have heard that white wine is perfectly fine though.

*Tap Beer. Beer from a can or bottle though is perfectly safe. I personally only drink 2-3 beers at most though. Any more than that and I get an unpleasant sensation.

*Mozzarella Cheese is 100% fine, eat as much of it as you want. A couple slices of swiss is perfectly fine as well. I cannot speak for the other cheeses, but I would be very careful. Blue Cheese is by far the most dangerous. Do not even consider trying it.

*I've read to not eat any nuts at all, but I have been eating small amounts of walnuts everyday with no complications. Walnuts in small amounts seem to be fine, I cannot speak for peanuts, almonds, and all the other nuts out there though. If I had to guess though, I would think that just about all the nuts are fine in small amounts. I wouldn't take my word for it though.

*Milk & Yogurt are absolutely fine. Sour Cream I am unsure about.

*Sauerkraut seems to be dangerous from what I have read. I have not tried it personally.

*Salami, Bologna, Pepperoni, Sausage, and any other aged meat should not be eaten. For meat, I just eat Chicken & Turkey. I also eat two boiled eggs for breakfast every morning and have never had a problem with those either.

*Soy Beans/Milk/Tofu, I would try these at your own risk. The information on MAOI's says to avoid these, but many people online claim to consume it. If you buy a product that says it is made with soy lecithin or some obscure soy derivative I would not be worried about eating it.

*Do not eat protein containing foods that are expired. Such as meat & milk.

*Pickled Herring is apparently dangerous, but I'm never going to test it out to know for sure. Nor do I think anyone in their right mind on this board will either.

*Chocolate is fine. Lots of chocolate and sweets will make you fat though, keep that in mind. I personally eat very little in the way of sweets. 1-2 chocolate truffles is all I eat when it comes to sweets. Everything else I eat is very healthy.

*Fava Beans need to be avoided at all costs. I can say this with a lot of confidence. Someone on this board ate them by accident and had a hypertensive crisis.

*Banana Peels need to be avoided too. Sorry guys, I know how much you are going to miss eating those.

What is a hypertensive crisis?

A hypertensive crisis is when your blood pressure reaches dangerously high levels, if too high, it is possible for an individual to even have a stroke . Eating foods that are high in tyramine while on Nardil is what can allow for a hypertensive crisis to occur. All of the foods mentioned in the list above contain high amounts of tyramine, which is why they need to be avoided while on Nardil.

Symptoms that may indicate your are having a hypertensive crisis include:

*Severe Headache
*Severe Anxiety
*Shortness Of Breath
*Elevated Blood Pressure

How much Nardil do I need to take for this medication to be effective?

Probably 60mg at the least, but some say 45mg works just fine for them. 75mg seems to be the ideal from what I have read and heard.

Everyone's body is different though, you need to find the dose that works for you, whether that be 45mg or 90mg.

How long will it take for this medicine to begin working?

I would say a month at the very least, but expect to wait as long as two months for it to begin working. It took me about 6 or 7 weeks I believe.

I can't poop, am I going to blow up?

I went a straight two weeks without pooping once. After that, my bowel movements gradually and very slowly returned. I'm 3 months into Nardil and my bowel movements are probably working at 50% of what they used to right now. Drink almost entirely water while on Nardil and be sure to get at least 30grams of fiber everyday.

Just 1 of these fiber bars has half of the daily required amount.

http://www.renewlife.com/Fiber/OrganicFiberBar.aspx

They can also be purchased from amazon.com if your local organic grocery story does not carry them.

Once you add on Kashi's GOLEAN Cereal http://www.kashi.com/products/golean_cereal_original you are looking at 25grams of fiber right there. This cereal can be found at any Wal-Mart. If you eat two apples in addition to the fiber bar and cereal, you'll have yourself a total of 30grams of fiber for that day. It isn't too hard, you just have to know what to eat.

Avoid dried fruit and fruit juices at all costs though, while they may be high in fiber, they are terribly high in carbs and sugar. You will get fat very quick. 1 cup of Lima Beans also has 10grams of fiber too, along with no fat. If you eat those on top of everything I mentioned before, you will get a grand total of 40grams.

You should be eating 30-40grams of fiber everyday while on Nardil, constipation or not. It lessens your chance of colon cancer, gives you great stools, lowers cholesterol, destroys fats, and curbs appetite.

This insomnia is terrible, how do I overcome it?

Nardil insomnia can easily be cured and it doesn't take a doctor's prescription for a benzo either. While I am personally prescribed to a very powerful benzo for the treatment of my insomnia on Nardil, I actually much rather take a combination of two drugs that I buy at Wal-Mart. I find them to be much more gentle and soothing, not to mention that they leave me waking up feeling awake and glowing rather than groggy and sluggish. I also sleep through the night just fine on them, usually only waking because I gotta take a pee.

The first drug is Melatonin and it is 100% non-toxic, no ill side effects can even come from its use. It regulates your bodies natural circadian rhythm and is produced by our own pineal glands as well. It has countless other benefits unrelated to sleep as well. Improved learning, memory, reduction of ADHD symptoms, treating seasonal depressions, and migraines.

Wal-Marts brand for their Melatonin is Natrol. Be sure to get the bottle that says 5mg.

The second drug I take in combination with Melatonin is an antihistamine called Doxylamine Succinate. To quote WikiPedia:

"It is also the most effective over-the-counter sedative available in the United States and is more sedating than some prescription hypnotics. In a study, it was found that doxylamine succinate is possibly more effective than the barbiturate phenobarbital for use as a sedative. For this reason, doxylamine has sometimes been used off label in a manner similar to diphenhydramine for the reduction of anxiety symptoms."

I'm sure most of you are thinking, "Colonel! My doctor and pharmacist said not to take antihistamines! Are you trying to kill me?"

Antihistamines are extremely benign drugs, there are people who have taken them daily for upwards of 50 years due to allergies. In the case of Nardil, there are plenty of scientific journals which refute the claim that they are dangerous when taken with an MAOI such as Nardil. Most of them cost money to view online, but I managed to find this book on google which mentions their safety. In case you do not want to sift through 100 online pages trying to find it, here is the quote:

"Antihistamines appear to be safe in combination with MAOIs and, when used without decongestants, pose little risk of drug interaction."

The quote can be found in the section Sympathomimetic Agents on page 102.

Doxylamine Succinate is the active ingredient in Unisom. Be careful though, there are several varieties of Unisom, not all of them contain Doxylamine Succinate. When buying Unisom, make sure you get the one that only has Doxylamine for its active ingredient. It should have no other active ingredients either. Just Doxylamine.

Here's pictures of both products:





When going to bed, all I do is take one pill of each. 1 Melatonin and 1 Unisom. If you take anymore you may end up feeling groggy and possibly crappy in the morning.

Why does Nardil get reccomended for Social Anxiety over Parnate?

Nardil raises GABA levels in the brain while Parnate does not. GABA is the principal inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain and a deficiency of it creates feelings of anxiety, restlessness, and being overhwhelmed. GABA aids in the production of endorphins which are a chemical that provide people with a sense of well-being. Endorphins can be felt at their peak during a runner's high or an orgasm during sexual intercourse.

Benzo's such as Xanax & Klonopin are effective in the treatment of anxiety because they work off of GABA as well.

I also read somewhere and wish I could find the article, but I can't, that Parnate actually turns into a chemical related to amphetamine when it is taken. Which would explain why it is such an amazing anti-depressant with stimulating effects.

Does Nardil destroy my liver?

No.

Does Nardil create a deficiency of Vitamin B6?

There is good research to support that this is possible. Everyone on Nardil needs to be taking a Vitamin B Complex like the one in this picture:



Will I gain weight on Nardil?

If you eat poorly and do not exercise, there is a great chance that you will. Be prepared to also crave and love sweets like you never have before. I devoured a whole cherry pie in 1 day, only to eat 20 packs of kit kats the following day. Candy & Chocolate is going to drive you crazy on Nardil, it tastes so freaking amazing for some reason.

To prevent weight gain on Nardil, you need to do the following:

*Eat well. This means no more than 300 carbs a day. 30-40 grams of fiber. Examples of good food choices include cereals such as the ones made by Kashi, vegetables, fruits, salads, and lean meat like chicken/turkey.

*Drink mostly Water. No soda at all, that even means diet soda. A cup of coffee once a day, or an unsweetened tea once a day is fine though. Water is essential for good health and losing weight.

*Exercise at least 4-5 days a week. I personally reccomend running for about an hour a day. Most people I've talked to online lost their Nardil fat by hitting the treadmill.

Can I take laxatives for the constipation?

Yes, Dulcolax Rectal Suppositories worked the best for me. Be sure to get the ones that have Bisacodyl as the active ingredient. The oral laxatives I bought only gave me horrible cramps and painful gas. Plus, the oral laxatives take 8-12 hours to work. Rectal Suppositories only take about an hour, sometimes 45 minutes.

When will the side effects go away?

I would say anywhere from 2-4 months. Insomnia and the potential for weight gain seem to be permanent though. Daytime sedation too, but all you have to do is take 1 NoDoz in the afternoon and problem solved. I can't even remember the last time I thought about being tired during the day.

When going to sleep, I get muscle spasms, is this normal?

Yes. I had them for about the first month. Sometimes they were so bad that they would almost seem violent. My leg might kick out for no reason or the muscles would contract in my neck so quickly that it would make my head shake left to right. The way I overcame this was easy. I just layed on my stomach and actually twitched my legs myself. The spasms only occured when I was still, if I was moving they never happened. Eventually I would fall asleep on my stomach while lightly twitching my legs.

I can get my guy up, but he no longer works if you know what I mean. This isn't permanent is it?

It wasn't permanent for me and it wasn't permanent for our poster Aries on here. It took me only two months before I was able to overcome anorgasmia. As of right now, it takes me an hour to finish the deed, but Aries says that his guy has completely returned to normal.

My farts smell absolutely terrible, is there anything I can do about this?

Yes, don't fart around others.



I think that covers just about everything I can think of. If anything else comes to mind, I'll be sure to add it on here.

[aries]

at around 6 months in here is all i can say
1) no side effects for >3 months
2) no food interactions for >3 months (i dont avoid anything)
3) ive held a steady job and even gotten a raise out of a douchebag boss that hates giving raises.

good idea about twitching your own legs. I do the same but it seemed kind of weird to post, you know? when im trying to sleep, it comes best if I'm softly dry humping my mattress pretty much. even though i dont get the myoclonic jerks anymore from nardil, I can still feel my sensetive reflexes itching to be tapped on or stretched, especially around my knees

[guitarguy]

That was helpful poop.But I was thinking about getting, or trying, if thers no interaction, wellbutrin, its not a good antidepressant, but it helps with the sex drive. ehat do you think?

Just one more question. About the ortostatic hypotension, do you think dropping to 90 mg's would help, also would dropping down decrease chances off recieving positive effects sooner? Probably gonna drop down any way. I'm completly useless now.

thanks colonol. You too aries, you have both taaught me alot about this drug and I'm probably going to keep you both informed, and seek advice.

.

later

[Medline]

That was helpful poop.But I was thinking about getting, or trying, if thers no interaction, wellbutrin, its not a good antidepressant, but it helps with the sex drive. ehat do you think?

Combining Nardil with Wellbutrin can be very dangerous. Phenelzine increases NE and DA levels by inhibiting the enzyme that break them down, Bupropion inhibits the reuptake of these neurotransmitters. Maybe some people are on this combination but I think it's quite risky especially when high doses of Wellbutrin are used (300-450mg).

[guitarguy]

Originally Posted by Medline

Combining Nardil with Wellbutrin can be very dangerous. Phenelzine increases NE and DA levels by inhibiting the enzyme that break them down, Bupropion inhibits the reuptake of these neurotransmitters. Maybe some people are on this combination but I think it's quite risky especially when high doses of Wellbutrin are used (300-450mg).

Thanks, Iwas just relly looking for something to increase sex drive, thats not my main concern onw, as I'm dealing with orthostatic hypotension, but in the near future. Do you know of any other meds that would be safe with nardil, and kelp, or should I just wait til the efects go down?

[jakejohnson007]

Aries, Colonel - You guys have been on Nardil long enough to have the side effects wane. How about the beneficial effects? Also what doses are you guys on and when during the day do you take ur pills?

[UltraShy]

Originally Posted by colonelpoop

*Wine. I have heard that white wine is perfectly fine though.

Good thing I don't like red to start with, though chardonnay has become my drink of choice.

[aries]

Originally Posted by jakejohnson007

Aries, Colonel - You guys have been on Nardil long enough to have the side effects wane. How about the beneficial effects? Also what doses are you guys on and when during the day do you take ur pills?

beneficial effects stayed
30mg in the morning, or whenever I wake up (ie, 7-8am or 12pm, depending if im working at 6am or 2pm, since that determines when i awake). Then another 30mg 4-5 hours later. unless I forget, then its more like 8 hours later, or 10. If I forget, then 2-3 hours later another 30mg. Otherwise I'll take it 4-5 hours from the last dose.

The timing doesnt really matter, i could probably do 45mg twice a day if I wanted. Whats important is taking all 90mg...

[quat]

The bad responses i've had from nardil was after eating slivered almonds and some frozen food that were crumbed potato and gravy balls.

I switched over to parnate and I've tried just about everything you're not meant to eat on the list, I drink copious amounts of beer and wine. The only thing I don't want to try is sauerkraut, just got a bad feeling about that. My sleep issues have mostly disappeared on parnate. I'd only sleep about 6 hours, but feel pretty refreshed

[Jguy22]

Hey is that where you got your name from, because you can't poop?..j/k..lol

Anyways,

I have been on Nardil for a whole week now and have massive constipation, matter of fact I take buprenorphine which also gives me massive constipation to begin with.

I was thinking of taking duxolax but I was told not too because laxative can became addictive to the body, and also causes stomach pain

Why were on this subject can buprenorphine (suboxone, subutex) be taken with Nardil, should I tell my doc that I make taking it?

You say that Nardil will not destory your liver. I have a liver disease that is a form of hepatits, and my liver doctor told me I can take almost everything except tylenol in large amount and drink alcohol. Should I tell my doc I have live problems. Because of the warning of nardil and liver damage, should I tell my pdoc and switch over to Parnate?

Also, can you tell me what Fava beans might be in so I don't accidentaly eat them by accident?

[guitarguy]

Originally Posted by aries

beneficial effects stayed
30mg in the morning, or whenever I wake up (ie, 7-8am or 12pm, depending if im working at 6am or 2pm, since that determines when i awake). Then another 30mg 4-5 hours later. unless I forget, then its more like 8 hours later, or 10. If I forget, then 2-3 hours later another 30mg. Otherwise I'll take it 4-5 hours from the last dose.

The timing doesnt really matter, i could probably do 45mg twice a day if I wanted. Whats important is taking all 90mg...

So I'm at 90 now, still have orthstatic hypotension, I believe, I was raised to quikly, I made sure it was weekly or bi weekly intervals, 1st week 15 - 2nd and 3rd week 45 - 4th and 5th week, which I was actually noticing minor change in mood, and pretty good outlook, as in attutude change, no bad side effects, a lttle tired, a little sedated(euphoria) but I woouln''t say that was bad, but anyone who looked at me, was like, your stoned, I was like yep! then came week 6.....upped me to 105, and the orthostatic hypotension kicked in within a dat 2 at the most, it was horrible!!! dropped to 90 at week 7, been ther til now which has been 9 days, going to reach 8 weeks if I can, effects are still bad, when I think there gone, this happens, boom hit me hard, I guess thats better than at 105, when it was like, KILL ME!

anyway man probably already messaged you can't really remember, but looking for some of that great advice!

[guitarguy]

Originally Posted by jakejohnson007

Aries, Colonel - You guys have been on Nardil long enough to have the side effects wane. How about the beneficial effects? Also what doses are you guys on and when during the day do you take ur pills?

Originally Posted by UltraShy

Good thing I don't like red to start with, though chardonnay has become my drink of choice.

I agree!

[sming]

In case anyone has found this thread via google or in-site search function, I want to highlight that Nardil + Melatonin is strongly contraindicated here:

http://www.vitamins-supplements.org/.../melatonin.php :

Melatonin should not be taken by people using certain antidepressants, such as Prozac (a serotonin inhibitor) or Nardil (a monoamine oxidase inhibitor). Interaction between melatonin and these types of antidepressants can cause a stroke or heart attack

and in fact on the Melatonin bottle label itself (at least the one that I bought anyway). There's also literature out there and plenty of user reports that the two are fine to take together.

Cheers,
sming

[mike8803]

+1
Awesome thread!

Seriously, when I'm on Nardil, my SP is almost gone. And mine is severe, compared to most on this board.

[meyaj]

I've drank red wine on Parnate, the main one supposedly to watch out for is Chianti. And fortified wines. But a glass of a different red wine doesn't seem to hurt.

Also... chocolate is iffy for a different reason than the others. Especially dark chocolate. It has a lot of PEA (phenethylamine), which is a neurotransmitter with an action similar to amphetamine (dopamine and norepinephrine release). I've got unintentionally high off eating half a bar of 85% cocoa Lindt chocolate Unless you're really shoving it in your face, it's unlikely to be dangerous, but the PEA gets very anxiogenic REALLY quickly.

Also, fava beans (if anyone eats those), have high levels of L-Dopa (and tyramine, actually) and should also be avoided. What's interesting is that in Silence of the Lambs, Hannibal Lecter specifically mentions eating liver with some fava beans and chianti, all of which are contraindicated with MAOIs and since he's a psychiatrist, he would know that

[zendog78]

The bad responses i've had from nardil was after eating slivered almonds and some frozen food that were crumbed potato and gravy balls.

I switched over to parnate and I've tried just about everything you're not meant to eat on the list, I drink copious amounts of beer and wine. The only thing I don't want to try is sauerkraut, just got a bad feeling about that. My sleep issues have mostly disappeared on parnate. I'd only sleep about 6 hours, but feel pretty refreshed

I would be very carefull if I were you, Parnate is renouned for being more reactive to tyramine than nardil. Case in point, I have never had a food reaction worth mentioning on nardil. Sometimes I think tyramine has made me sleepy, thats about it.
Parnate though! A few small slices of specialty cheese's and my heart was thumping like it was going to come out of my chest...very scary.

As for Melatonin and Nardil being contraindicated, a lot of this stuff is just theoretical, I take 3mg evey night without problem. I have also taken LSD in large doses on Nardil without problem. They just make anything that effects the seritonin system contraindicated as a matter of course.

I am about 6 months in and I still can't **** properly. None of the usual laxatives do a thing. Nothing! I just fart and fart and pass hard nuggets several times a day
What does work is microlax prepackaged enema's. I use 2, twice per week.
I also take one "de-gas" tablet at night and that seems to be helping a lot.
As did cutting out lactose, gluten and chewing gum.

[jim_morrison]

A guide to the MAOI diet for reference;



http://www.upmc.com/healthatoz/patie...dietfacts.aspx

[VII]

How to combat hypotension? I've already lowered my dosage from 60 to 45, and I was doing much better, but I find I have to take my pills at the same time once a day, otherwise I end up forgetting the morning dosage and taking it all together is causing my hypotension to get a decent bit worse. I've tried lots of salt and water but nothing helps.

Also, has anyone else built up a tolerance to any of the no-no foods? I went from having a minor effect at a large size of tyramine (that partially saved me from hypotension issues) to it not doing anything whatsoever. I'm wondering if building up tolerance is actually possible, whether it be by eating small amounts of the food or over time of taking Nardil? (Not to encourage anyone to do bad things! Don't try this at home!)

[helena AU]

Yes, you can build up a tolerance. When I first started taking nardil, I accidently had chocolate that had a nut in it. Worst. Thing. Ever. Couldn't breath, mind splitting migraine and broke out in a rash. Was panicking and called an ambulance. 10 years later, I eat peanuts, nothing. Same thing happened to me when I ate vegemite the first time. Now I can eat it. But I wouldn't recommend it. Howver, in saying that, nardil isn't nearly as effective for my SA as it once was 10 years ago. I could be walking a thin line here. But I got to say, when I first began, even smelling a peanut would make me break out in rash! (well. not really- but just illustrating how toxic it was).

[blakeyz]

Death by Vegemite.. How embarrassing
The MAOI diet doesn't even come into my mind any more. I have ate most things on the list and got drunk off tap beer last week. I guess it could be a sign that the drug is just ineffective for me 2.