Starting memantine tomorrow - Social Anxiety Forum
X

Download the SAS Android App

Or switch to mobile version of the forums

X

Download the SAS iPhone App

Or switch to mobile version of the forums

Help/FAQLog InJoin SAS
Go Back   Social Anxiety Forum > Recovery > Medication

Reply
Old 01-17-2010, 01:11 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
crayzyMed's Avatar
 
Status: The Power Of Nature
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Belguim
Gender: Male
Age: 26
Posts: 6,008



Smile Starting memantine tomorrow

Tomorrow i'm starting memantine at 5mg, i'm planning to go up every 3 or 4 days untill i reach 20mg a day.

I'm hoping the memantine will work for OCD, GAD and anhedonia, i'm also gonna test it for its tolerance preventing capabilities.

I'm expecting some bad brainfog the first 2 weeks once i'm upping my dose, after that i should be able to expect cognitive improvement.
__________________
Disclaimer: I am not a professional, all my advice is based on my own research and experiences.

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth."
-Lenin


Loving my girl.

Anyone is free to PM me questions or ask my MSN adress.
crayzyMed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2010, 01:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Gender: Male
Age: 32
Posts: 366



Default

i'm not agree with NMDA antagonists. researchers are using NMDA agonists(cycloserine) to speed up the process of substitution of early under-stress learning and distorted memories with new ones while we are searching for ways to stop tolerance to benzos and opiates using NMDA antagonists!!! i think benzos, opiates and stimulants shouldn't be regarded as long-term treatment. it seems they only cause a temporary relief not a real treatment.
Ehsan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2010, 02:35 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
crayzyMed's Avatar
 
Status: The Power Of Nature
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Belguim
Gender: Male
Age: 26
Posts: 6,008



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehsan View Post
i'm not agree with NMDA antagonists. researchers are developing ways to speed up the process of substitution of early under-stress learning and distorted memories with new ones with NMDA agonists(cycloserine) while we are searching for ways to stop tolerance to benzos and opiates using NMDA antagonists!!! i think benzos, opiates and stimulants shouldn't be regarded as long-term treatment. it seems they only cause a temporarily relief not a real treatment.
NMDA antagonists are far more promosing then NMDA agonists. Especially memantine looks interesting as its only a partional antagonist and doesnt interfere with normal cognition, it has in fact been shown to enhance cognition [1] and even has been shown to be effective for ADHD [2].
Memantine also looks very promosing for OCD.[3][4][5]

NMDA antagonists have been shown to slow tolerance to opiates [6], benzo's [7] [8] and prevent benzo dependency [9].

Also considering the fact that SSRI/SNRI's arent more effective then placebo in most cases, i have no idea what alternative we would have.
__________________
Disclaimer: I am not a professional, all my advice is based on my own research and experiences.

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth."
-Lenin


Loving my girl.

Anyone is free to PM me questions or ask my MSN adress.
crayzyMed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2010, 03:16 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK, Hertfordshire
Gender: Male
Age: 23
Posts: 2,661



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehsan View Post
i'm not agree with NMDA antagonists. researchers are using NMDA agonists(cycloserine) to speed up the process of substitution of early under-stress learning and distorted memories with new ones while we are searching for ways to stop tolerance to benzos and opiates using NMDA antagonists!!! i think benzos, opiates and stimulants shouldn't be regarded as long-term treatment. it seems they only cause a temporary relief not a real treatment.
I think it's a far better idea than taking the likely neurotoxic NMDA agonists [considering that NMDA antagonists are neuroprotective / anti-excitotoxic]. Also, tolerance can be prevented, as crazyMed pointed out. I've heard quite a few long-term success stories with tolerance prevention, not to mention the scientific evidence.
__________________

euphoria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2010, 03:19 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
Vini Vidi Vici's Avatar
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: la la la la la
Gender: Male
Age: 23
Posts: 881



Default

since running out of memantine i feel terrible....my new order of it it should come tomorrow hopefully, but my dexedrine, caffeine, and nicotine doesnt work at all, im super depressed and iriitable without memantine. even if i was on a super small dose, it was doing something
__________________
Because I know that here today, the Black Knights,..... will emerge victorious, once again.
Vini Vidi Vici is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2010, 03:23 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK, Hertfordshire
Gender: Male
Age: 23
Posts: 2,661



Default

Did you feel like that on just the other meds without memantine?
__________________

euphoria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2010, 03:28 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Gender: Male
Age: 32
Posts: 366



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crayzyMed View Post
NMDA antagonists are far more promosing then NMDA agonists. Especially memantine looks interesting as its only a partional antagonist and doesnt interfere with normal cognition, it has in fact been shown to enhance cognition [1] and even has been shown to be effective for ADHD [2].
Memantine also looks very promosing for OCD.[3][4][5]

NMDA antagonists have been shown to slow tolerance to opiates [6], benzo's [7] [8] and prevent benzo dependency [9].

Also considering the fact that SSRI/SNRI's arent more effective then placebo in most cases, i have no idea what alternative we would have.
i have not seen any use of NMDA antagonists in SAD. NMDA antagonists can stop fear learning but this is useful only before developing SAD. i think it's better to improve emotional learning in SAD treatment to achieve permanent results. however this should be done after reducing stress and controlling anxiety sources coz learning under chronic stress and anxiety causes SAD itself. memantine is also a D2 agonist , ... that may be useful in ADHD,OCD.
Ehsan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2010, 03:37 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
crayzyMed's Avatar
 
Status: The Power Of Nature
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Belguim
Gender: Male
Age: 26
Posts: 6,008



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehsan View Post
i have not seen any use of NMDA antagonists in SAD. NMDA antagonists can stop fear learning but this is useful only before developing SAD. i think it's better to improve emotional learning in SAD treatment to achieve permanent results. however this should be done after reducing stress and controlling anxiety sources coz learning under chronic stress and anxiety causes SAD itself. memantine is also a D2 agonist , ... that may be useful in ADHD,OCD.
I didnt claim memantine would work for social anxiety, its only found to be effective for depression, OCD and GAD. MgluR5 antagonists are for more interesting for social anxiety (acamprosate works trough that receptor and would be an interesting add on with memantine).

Its unlikely that D2 agonism explains the therapeutic effects of memantine considering that NMDA has been implicated in OCD and another med riluzole which decreases glutamate is effective for the same disorders as memantine.
Dopamine agonists also arent seen as very effective for ADHD.
NMDA antagonists are meds i really beleive in, unlike SSRI/SNRI's which is a load of quackery.

Some ppl may benefit from therapy but not everyone, recently it has been shown that therapy isnt of added benefit for patients with chronic depression, also many ppl just have a lack of reward in social situations, this cant be fixed with therapy.
I and many others have been exposing ourselves for years without any benefit.
__________________
Disclaimer: I am not a professional, all my advice is based on my own research and experiences.

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth."
-Lenin


Loving my girl.

Anyone is free to PM me questions or ask my MSN adress.
crayzyMed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2010, 05:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
Vini Vidi Vici's Avatar
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: la la la la la
Gender: Male
Age: 23
Posts: 881



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoria View Post
Did you feel like that on just the other meds without memantine?
yup. last summer when i was taking Adderal and nicotine gum all the time, i felt abosolutly horrible. and when i was on Parnate by itself, i didnt feel horrible, but i didnt feel too good, either. my combo of memantine + parnate really seems to enhance the dexedrine, and make it work every day, and since i also use lotsa nicotine gum and caffiene and Klonopin, and agomelatine sometimes, its all quite a nice combo....but the memantine is like a really crucial part, because without memantine i get irritable, depressed,and most of all, my OCD goes like insane and i get 10 times more neurotic than i usually am .... i just dont feel like myself anymore without memantine....its a weird unstable insecure feeling. im taking NAC and magnesium but it doesnt quite cut it......i think ill keep taking NAC tho, even once i get memantine and start it agian. NAC helps me alot, predictably.
__________________
Because I know that here today, the Black Knights,..... will emerge victorious, once again.
Vini Vidi Vici is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2010, 06:07 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
crayzyMed's Avatar
 
Status: The Power Of Nature
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Belguim
Gender: Male
Age: 26
Posts: 6,008



Default

Nac seems to have a weird mechanism of action:
Quote:
N-acetylcysteine (NAC) is an amino acid derivative that stimulates the glial cystine/glutamate exchanger and leads to elevated extracellular glutamate levels. This rise in glutamate levels in the extrasynaptic space activates inhibitory mGluR2 receptors that dampen synaptic release of glutamate from neurons [145]. This mechanism of action prompted a case study of NAC in combination with the SSRI fluvoxamine in treatment-refractory OCD that yielded evidence for significant improvement in OCD symptoms [146]. Larger, well controlled studies are needed to further explore the potential of NAC in treating OCD symptoms. Since elevating extracellular/extrasynaptic glutamate by stimulating cystine exchange could also activate NMDA receptors similar to spillover effects of synaptically released glutamate [147], this aspect should not be overlooked in searching for the appropriate therapeutic dose of NAC.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2746669/

So it actually raises glutamate wich leads to agonism of the mglur2 receptors (which are good glutamate receptors).

Theoretically could be a very good adjunct with memantine.
__________________
Disclaimer: I am not a professional, all my advice is based on my own research and experiences.

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth."
-Lenin


Loving my girl.

Anyone is free to PM me questions or ask my MSN adress.
crayzyMed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2010, 07:59 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 9



Default

I myself found memantine somewhat motivating... it was also mildly helpful for depression. I'm not sure that it helped my OCD symptoms that much but that could be due to it's D2 agonist properties. Though, after a while maybe those receptors become desensitized and it doesn't matter anyways.

It's definitely something I would have continued to take if it weren't for the memory problems I experienced with it. Yes, it did get better, but never completely went away. I started at 5mg/day and went up to 10mg/day, I took it for maybe 2 months. I went back down to 5mg but still didn't want to put up with the memory issues since I'm trying to tackle college right now.

But, if the memory problems don't bother you it's a good drug I think.
JPars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2010, 08:09 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
jim_morrison's Avatar
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Melbourne
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,025



Default

Doesn't Glutamate/NMDA antagonism cause motor discoordination, memory disruption, and blackouts though?
jim_morrison is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2010, 08:54 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
Vini Vidi Vici's Avatar
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: la la la la la
Gender: Male
Age: 23
Posts: 881



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPars View Post

But, if the memory problems don't bother you it's a good drug I think.
ya the memory problems were insane.....i started 5mg on December 7th, and then like i woke up at about Christmas, and i couldnt remember what happened the last 2 weeks. i could still remember a few select events, but it was scary, i started thinking that i had gotten in a car accident, like the 50 First Dates thing......but it got better, and by now my memory is actually alot better. but it was really profound while it lasted...it was like being in a semi coma for a couple weeks, then i suddenly realized how much my memory was screwed.
__________________
Because I know that here today, the Black Knights,..... will emerge victorious, once again.
Vini Vidi Vici is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 03:53 AM   #14 (permalink)
 
crayzyMed's Avatar
 
Status: The Power Of Nature
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Belguim
Gender: Male
Age: 26
Posts: 6,008



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim_morrison View Post
Doesn't Glutamate/NMDA antagonism cause motor discoordination, memory disruption, and blackouts though?
Because memantine only is a partial antagonist it only causes a temporary decrease in short term memory and memory formation after which you can expect an increase in cognition.
Some ppl report it could take 6 weeks before any decrease in cognition is fully gone.

This mice study also shows a cognitive improving and anxiolotic effect of memantine with chronic dosing.
Quote:
Cognition-enhancing and anxiolytic effects of memantine

Minkeviciene R, Banerjee P, and Tanila H (2008). Neuropharmacology 54(7):1079-85.

Memantine, a moderate-affinity NMDA receptor antagonist, is clinically used for the treatment of Alzheimer's disease (AD). Both clinical and preclinical studies have shown that memantine, at doses producing a steady-state plasma level of 0.5-1muM, is well tolerated and improves cognition. Here we tested the effects of chronic oral administration of memantine (10, 30 and 100mg/kg per day) producing steady state plasma drug levels ranging between approximately 0.5and 6muM on motor, social, emotional and cognitive behavior in normal C57BL/6J mice. Memantine dose-dependently reduced escape latency (hidden platform) and decreased wall swimming tendency in the Morris water maze test, increased time spent in open arms in the elevated plus-maze test, and reduced the number of isolation-induced aggressive attacks, but did not affect exploratory activity in the open field. These data indicate that high, stable doses of memantine improved cognition and exhibited a potential anxiolytic response in normal mice.
Quote:
Therapeutically relevant plasma concentrations of memantine produce significant NMDA receptor occupancy and do not impair learning in rats

More, L, G N J, Valastro B, Greco S, and Danysz W (2008). Behav Pharmacol 19, 724-734.

Subchronic treatment with memantine using osmotic pumps in male rats was used to verify whether plasma levels significantly blocking L-N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptors (and shown previously to be neuroprotective) may impair learning. Treatment with 6.27, 12.5 and 18.8 mg/rat/day provided plasma levels of 1.03+/-0.08, 5.07+/-0.68 and 11.68+/-0.90 micromol/l. Only the lowest plasma level is therapeutically relevant and has previously been shown to be neuroprotective. Significant deficits in a passive avoidance task were only observed at the highest dose. Working memory, tested as spontaneous alternation in the cross maze, was impaired by the middle and highest doses, and these doses also induced hyperlocomotion. Microdialysis experiments with in-vivo recovery (27.4%) showed that infusion of memantine at 6.27 mg/rat/day (ca. 23 mg/kg/day) produced a concentration of 990+/-105 nmol/l in extracellular fluid. In-vivo NMDA receptor occupancy experiments demonstrated significant, dose-dependent receptor occupancy of 32.7 and 65.7% by memantine at the doses producing 1 and 5 micromol/l plasma levels, respectively. Moreover, acute administration (2.5 mg/kg intraperitoneally) of memantine to mature female rats produced approximately two-fold higher plasma levels than in young male rats. In conclusion, a dose of memantine which produces a plasma level (1 micromol/l) within the therapeutic range, reported previously to be neuroprotective, leads to intracellular brain levels similar to the affinity of memantine for NMDA receptors (receptor binding, patch clamp). This has been also extended by the experiments showing that at this plasma concentration, memantine occupies ca. 30% NMDA receptors in the brain and produces no cognitive impairment.
@JPars
Thats unfortionate it didnt went away for you. Maybe you should have played around with the doses some more (5 or maybe 20mg) some ppl have a differend sweet spot.

Here's an interesting read on memantine:
http://www.jaoa.org/cgi/content/full/106/6/358
__________________
Disclaimer: I am not a professional, all my advice is based on my own research and experiences.

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth."
-Lenin


Loving my girl.

Anyone is free to PM me questions or ask my MSN adress.
crayzyMed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 05:02 AM   #15 (permalink)
 
crayzyMed's Avatar
 
Status: The Power Of Nature
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Belguim
Gender: Male
Age: 26
Posts: 6,008



Default

I only notice some bad brainfog at the moment, i'm suprised how gentle it is, i tought it was going to give me some kind of disiociative feeling.
I'l wait 3 days before i raise my dose tough as blood levels will build up the next 2 days so i could expect more side effects.

As far as OCD, today my mum called our dog needed to die tomorrow at the vet and she was also crying ablout it, offcourse this also stresses me and normally my mind would go crazy about it because i would think the memantine wont work(OCD allways causes such toughts for me) in the end because i'm stressing at the moment and that i need to stop taking it and start again later.

With the memantine its a TON easier to ignore these toughts, they are still there but i could go on with my trial without completely stressing out.

Its too early to make any conclusions now, but this definatly looks promosing.
__________________
Disclaimer: I am not a professional, all my advice is based on my own research and experiences.

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth."
-Lenin


Loving my girl.

Anyone is free to PM me questions or ask my MSN adress.
crayzyMed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 07:35 AM   #16 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK, Hertfordshire
Gender: Male
Age: 23
Posts: 2,661



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vini Vidi Vici View Post
yup. last summer when i was taking Adderal and nicotine gum all the time, i felt abosolutly horrible. and when i was on Parnate by itself, i didnt feel horrible, but i didnt feel too good, either. my combo of memantine + parnate really seems to enhance the dexedrine, and make it work every day, and since i also use lotsa nicotine gum and caffiene and Klonopin, and agomelatine sometimes, its all quite a nice combo....but the memantine is like a really crucial part, because without memantine i get irritable, depressed,and most of all, my OCD goes like insane and i get 10 times more neurotic than i usually am .... i just dont feel like myself anymore without memantine....its a weird unstable insecure feeling. im taking NAC and magnesium but it doesnt quite cut it......i think ill keep taking NAC tho, even once i get memantine and start it agian. NAC helps me alot, predictably.
I was just wondering if you were experiencing withdrawals from memantine; it would appear not. I don't think NMDA antagonists cause dependence -- people have reported withdrawals from heavy DXM abuse but IMO that probably doesn't apply to low, therapeutic tolerance-prevention doses, and could be more related to psychological dependence and possible neurotoxicity / general brain disruption.
__________________

euphoria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 07:40 AM   #17 (permalink)
 
crayzyMed's Avatar
 
Status: The Power Of Nature
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Belguim
Gender: Male
Age: 26
Posts: 6,008



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoria View Post
I was just wondering if you were experiencing withdrawals from memantine; it would appear not. I don't think NMDA antagonists cause dependence -- people have reported withdrawals from heavy DXM abuse but IMO that probably doesn't apply to low, therapeutic tolerance-prevention doses, and could be more related to psychological dependence and possible neurotoxicity / general brain disruption.
Yeah, ketamine and DXM abuse is messing around with the reward pathways in the brain just like abuse of any other drug does, i wont expect any withdrawal's from therapeutic use.
__________________
Disclaimer: I am not a professional, all my advice is based on my own research and experiences.

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth."
-Lenin


Loving my girl.

Anyone is free to PM me questions or ask my MSN adress.
crayzyMed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 01:02 PM   #18 (permalink)
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 9



Default

Some of the memory problems in the beginning could also be due to the antagonism of different nicotinic acetylcholine receptors. I believe it only last a few days though maybe before these receptors' sensitivity changes. It's also only a non-competitive antagonist.
JPars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 01:19 PM   #19 (permalink)
 
crayzyMed's Avatar
 
Status: The Power Of Nature
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Belguim
Gender: Male
Age: 26
Posts: 6,008



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPars View Post
Some of the memory problems in the beginning could also be due to the antagonism of different nicotinic acetylcholine receptors. I believe it only last a few days though maybe before these receptors' sensitivity changes. It's also only a non-competitive antagonist.
Yeah from what i've read its only 3-4 days of brainfog after each dose raise.
__________________
Disclaimer: I am not a professional, all my advice is based on my own research and experiences.

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth."
-Lenin


Loving my girl.

Anyone is free to PM me questions or ask my MSN adress.
crayzyMed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2010, 01:59 PM   #20 (permalink)
 
Vini Vidi Vici's Avatar
 
Status: SAS Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: la la la la la
Gender: Male
Age: 23
Posts: 881



Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoria View Post
I was just wondering if you were experiencing withdrawals from memantine; it would appear not. I don't think NMDA antagonists cause dependence -- people have reported withdrawals from heavy DXM abuse but IMO that probably doesn't apply to low, therapeutic tolerance-prevention doses, and could be more related to psychological dependence and possible neurotoxicity / general brain disruption.
yeah i dont think its withdrawals.....its just my OCD going crazy (which it already does) but now it actually has a reason to go crazy. but i do think i have too much glutamate in my brain or something like that, cuz ive always felt really good when drinking even a little bit of alcohol or DXM, im probably like one of the most pre-disposed alcoholics in existence.

i am slightly worried that i will lose the cognitive benefits of the memantine, and have 2 go through the Brain fog period agian, which was really scary for me. but i guess it doesnt matter right now, all i have to do is wait for my memantine to come. i wish i could shoot myself with a tranqulizer dart, and wake up when it comes.
__________________
Because I know that here today, the Black Knights,..... will emerge victorious, once again.
Vini Vidi Vici is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Starting a new job tomorrow! amarie Coping With Social Anxiety 3 11-01-2009 06:17 PM
Starting a second job tomorrow sunmoonstars76 General Discussion 2 10-13-2008 07:57 PM
Starting Zoloft tomorrow SAgirl Medication 9 04-12-2007 06:30 PM
starting course tomorrow lightness Students 1 01-28-2007 09:54 PM
starting prozac tomorrow pbmax Medication 2 12-22-2006 05:25 PM

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:56 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® ©2000-2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc. User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.