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Nardil questions

219K views 751 replies 170 participants last post by  joost78 
#1 ·
I've been on nardil for about 13 months. I am totally symptom free of SA!!!

I come back to these forums to help push people to try nardil. Unfortunately it has a bad reputation for harsh side effects (I experience none) and bad food drug interactions, which are very easy to avoid.

I have probably been PMed by around 10 people concerning nardil, I only come on this forum to give advice and help out now.

Please feel free to contact me when any questions of Nardil- dosing, side effects, anything!! I know how bad dealing with SA sucks and controls your life, so I want to pass on any knowledge that could help those who currently take nardil or are considering it!!!

NOTE: WHEN STARTING NARDIL START AT 15MG AND INCREASE DOSAGE BY 15MG EACH WEEK UNTIL YOU REACH 60MG!!! A HUGE MISTAKE PEOPLE MAKE IS STARTING AT A HIGHER DOSE. YOUR DOCTOR MIGHT WANT YOU TO START HIGHER BUT PLEASE SAVE YOURSELF THE TROUBLE AND SLOWLY WORK UP YOUR DOSAGE!!! YOU MUST GIVE YOUR BODY TIME TO ADJUST!!! THIS IS KEY!!!!

Once again, contact with me to ask any questions, I would love to help!!!

You won't be bothering me at all. I get on this forums a couple times a week so I might not answer your message right away but I will get to it!!

Good luck to all!!!

-mr t

Updated info by request***

wikipedia has a pretty good summary on nardil, mechanism of action etc..

Nardil has interaction with B6 which can lower B6 levels. B6 is critical in neurotransmitter synthesis and feeling good over all.

**I recommend supplementing a good multivitamin daily, possibly B complex but the multivitamin should provide adequate B vitamins
. Also supplementing ~2000-3000 IU of Vitamin D is great for mood. Even if you are getting plenty of sunlight, according to studies there is a trend in lower Vitamin D levels and depression. Vitamin D is also crucial for NT synthesis. I supplement vitamin D, get plenty of sunlight, and still actually had a deficiency when I got a blood test!!

As for daytime fatigue: supplementing these vitamins can definitely help. Try drinking some coffee also, i found that has helped me alot. Hypotension-lowered blood pressure- is a common cause of fatigue while on nardil. You can get a cheap BP cuff at any local drug store to check your BP levels. For hypotension, drinking plenty of water daily can help increase your blood pressure, as well as increased salt in diet.

For persistent daytime fatigue: If you are on nardil for a while and fatigue is not getting better, talk to your doctor and consider trying provigil/nuvigil(modafinil/armodafinil). They are unique stimulants that destroy fatigue, do not have too bad of a crash, and importantly never greatly increased my anxiety. I prefer nuvigil over provigil, because it is the isolated R-isomer of provigil which is thought to provide most of the benefits of the drug. Nuvigil gave me less headaches, less anxiety, and less unwanted stimulatory affects such as high heart rate.

**It has been stated by my doctor by an efficacy report he made that there is a 60% percent chance patients will greatly respond to either Nardil or Parnate. Nardil seems the obvious choice first when treating SA. Basically MAOIs are a great option.

Many worry about the food interactions. The list of food interactions needs to be updated because it is way overhyped. I can eat most of what is actually on the list. Be careful though and if you are trying something that is prohibited but has been shown to be fine to eat, just eat a little bit and see how you feel.

**For me, my diet has not changed really at all. I mainly avoid very aged cheeses such as blue cheese. I can eat cheddar, provologne, mozzerella, jack etc.. Avoid AGED BEERS, ESPECIALLY TAP BEER. I drink plenty of beer, which i dont recommend doing anyway, but i make sure they arent too aged like some microbrews can be. Start slow at first anyway. Also avoiding aged meats like pepperoni and others. Pepperoni on chain pizzas and most others are fine. I eat pizza all the time, no problems.

Further questions of food interactions, PM me.

The drug interactions like cold medicines are much more severe and can be life threatening. These are obviously very easy to avoid.
 
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#97 ·
Hey Mr.T, anxiety still doing pretty well on 45 mg (tmmr is 6 weeks in total).

Not sure if I asked you this... (because I can't remember ironically) but do you have any memory issues? My memory is rock solid long term, and I think that my short term is as well. What is messed is my ability to recall memories/ideas/lyrics etc.

When I'm singing a song I know I forget the lyrics which I always know. When trying to remember certain names (celebrities) or things I've been educated on I can't recall them for a while (like 5 minutes usually).

** I always know the stuff, because everything is still stored in my long term memory, but it's as if Nardil hinders my ability to recall memories quickly. It takes me much longer, enough that it really bugs me. It's really a side effect that is bad enough that makes me doubt whether Nardil can be used long term.

I think it is just the GABA effect of Nardil.

Let me know if you had this issue, or if anyone else has. Also if provigil/nuvigil helped. I'm not sure if I can use a drug to counter this without messing up the GABA effects..

Stimulants will help me process/stay awake/analyze things quicker, but I'm not sure if it will help my memory..

Anyways, thanks again.

TL;DR** My memory is still ****, how is yours? Did provigil/nuvigil help? Should this pass? This makes me wonder about Nardil long term. **
 
#99 ·
My memory is fine now. I dont think i really had any memory problems from nardil, but even before on nardil, i believe due to my depression that my recall was pretty bad. i couldnt think of the particular words i wanted to say, it was like it was on the edge of my tongue but i couldnt pull up what i wanted to say. Again i attributed this to anxiety and depression.

I hope it passes for you, maybe as your NE and dopamine transmission continue to go up it will help some.

I would think that if you got your hands on some modafinil it would help. Its a great drug for clearing a foggy mind, making you alert, and it definitely helped me with word recall problems etc..
 
#104 ·
Hey Mr. T,
As I've already griped about, nardil seems to work for me only in cycles. I'm still on 60 mg and have been for about 4 weeks. When I have really crappy times I usually feel not only no beneficial effect from the nardil, but not no side effects either. It's as if my body becomes completely immune to the nardil for short spurts or something. Although I doubt that's what's actually happening.

Anyway, you mentioned that you only had modest fluctuations in efficacy yourself. Did you notice any correlations between any other controllable variables and efficacy? For example, amount of sleep, taking nardil with/without food, lack/presence of exercise, change in diet, timing of B vitamin supplementation, etc. ... Anything remotely associated with efficacy? It seems like antidepressant effectiveness is usually very related to sleep for me. For example, even crappy SSRI's seemed to work best right after I woke up in the morning -- maybe something having to do with serotonin production/regulation and circadian rhythm.
 
#105 ·
Not getting enough sleep will mess up mood for anyone. Make sure you are getting enough sleep nightly.

Try taking your first 30mg of the day on an empty stomach in the morning. I feel that when i take it on an empty stomach as opposed to with food i get a much better dopamine and mood boost.

Getting exercise is good for mood in general. try and get on a treadmill sometime, or just jog/walk in your neighborhood.

Try adding B complex, or better yet add a multivitamin to your daily routine. You could try taking it at different times of the day. I would take this with food to avoid nausea.

Also, i recommend adding 3000 IU vitamin D daily. Vitamin D is great for mood and is very important in regulating that through NT synthesis.
 
#108 ·
Cool. What reading were you referring to with KramersHalfSister -- the stuff about B vitamins possibly interfering with nardil's effectiveness? I know you said you didn't find it to be the case for you, but I just like to be informed. Also, I'm taking large doses of niacinamide, so I hope that's not interfering at all. If it is, I could maybe take it at other times.


And just to update you, I am a nardil believer and it seems to be helping quite a bit. I think I'm close to 12 weeks and still hoping for some improvement, although if it stops here I won't feel cheated. I find it much easier to look people in the eyes and to speak my mind. Combined with exposure therapy and lyrica, I've gone from near-agoraphobic to active in life. I find most of the time I walk into situations nervous that things will be the way they used to all of a sudden, like a rat in a maze waiting for that old shock that won't come anymore. And it usually doesn't come for me. So, hopefully full extinction will take place and I'll keep moving on with my life.

How is it with you? Are you a more active player in your own life now?
 
#112 ·
Physically, probably not. Mentally, most definitely. I stopped Nardil from like 60 mg flat out last time and I had like crazy night terrors so bad that I literally became afraid to close my eyes even for like 30 minutes.

My eyes also were bloodshot so badly that they burned massively, probably from my mind short wiring.

If you want to stop the parnate, you can come off it quick, but don't cold turkey it ever. Just because it isn't doing anything doesn't mean that you won't have crazy withdrawals.

** and of course, the depression hit hard. In like 5-6 days I had already stopped doing anything whatsoever with anybody.
 
#115 ·
Anyone know about the specific profile of mao's and neurotransmitters affected by nardil over time? Is it like serotonin is typically the chief one effected in week 5, but eventually GABA is equally influenced? Is it a static mixture of effect or a dynamic one; and is it random from person to person?

I ask because lately I feel like I get too much serotonin -- you know the feeling when you take an SSRI and it's comin on too strong? It feels like that. Sometimes I feel like the cocktail is just right. I did recently add mega doses of niacinamide and stopped taking other vitamins because I'm confused about the b6 controversy. Maybe that's it. I hope so.
 
#118 ·
Nardil boosts serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, gaba transmission.

B6 can interact with nardil and cause them to be unreactive.

Suggestions of B6 supplementation is due to the fact that nardil could lower b6 levels by interacting with it.

Its not a huge deal, just take a multivitamin to get enough B6 supplemented.
 
#116 ·
Re: Nardil questions? Contact me! (Mr. T)

Hey Mr T! -- Hope you're still around. (Your original post was in 2010).
MY SAS has gotten so bad, I haven't been able to leave my home since February (6 months now). SSRIs and the like never worked for me. Neither did ECT or Deep Brain Stimulation. I had such horrible side effects from the SSRIs, I swore them off years ago, but my doc convinced me to try an MAOI. In Canada, we can get Manerix, a 'reversible MAOI', with fewer side effect worries. And it worked really well & fast, but pooped out really fast, too, and that was at an extremely high dose of 1200mg. So we're going to try Parnate...
My question is, why is there even a waiting period in making the transition when they're virtually the same type of med. I'm down to 300mg of Manerix, but dangerously depressed now, so the sooner I get started on the Parnate, the better. Also, she's starting me on just 10mg!? I've read 30mg is the average starting dose. You mentioned 15mg to start. Even that sounds more reasonable. But my main question is, how long should the transition time be when swiching from a reversible MAOI like Manerix to Parnate? And why?...
Sooooo happy to hear of your positive response to this drug. It gives me hope when I was feeling ready to give up again.
I'll try to be patient in awaiting your reply and look forward to sharing your views.

Hope things are still going well for you,
CailinGaelach
 
#119 ·
Hey Mr T! -- Hope you're still around. (Your original post was in 2010).
MY SAS has gotten so bad, I haven't been able to leave my home since February (6 months now). SSRIs and the like never worked for me. Neither did ECT or Deep Brain Stimulation. I had such horrible side effects from the SSRIs, I swore them off years ago, but my doc convinced me to try an MAOI. In Canada, we can get Manerix, a 'reversible MAOI', with fewer side effect worries. And it worked really well & fast, but pooped out really fast, too, and that was at an extremely high dose of 1200mg. So we're going to try Parnate...
My question is, why is there even a waiting period in making the transition when they're virtually the same type of med. I'm down to 300mg of Manerix, but dangerously depressed now, so the sooner I get started on the Parnate, the better. Also, she's starting me on just 10mg!? I've read 30mg is the average starting dose. You mentioned 15mg to start. Even that sounds more reasonable. But my main question is, how long should the transition time be when swiching from a reversible MAOI like Manerix to Parnate? And why?...
Sooooo happy to hear of your positive response to this drug. It gives me hope when I was feeling ready to give up again.
I'll try to be patient in awaiting your reply and look forward to sharing your views.

Hope things are still going well for you,
CailinGaelach
The transition shouldnt take too long since both are MAOIs. They both inhibit MAO which would breakdown neurotransmitters. They both have similar mechanism.
 
#117 ·
Re: Nardil questions? Contact me! (Mr. T) .2

Oi ! Sorry, Mr. T, I messed up! My mind is mush right now. I confused the Nardil you're taking with the other MAOI, Parnate, that my doc recommended due to my chronic fatigue. So I don't know if my 'transitioning time' question will apply here. Total brain fog. But let me know if you might have any insight, anyway. Otherwise I'll start a new thread.

Thanks again,
CailinGaelach
 
#120 ·
#121 ·
mr t,

have you noticed any symptoms of mania or increased aggression/violent thoughts?

Taking an MAOI can reproduce the genetic results of the "warrior gene." One guy killed his wife but got a reduced sentence because he had the less active version of the MAO-a gene. Here's the article:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ty-the-poor-murderer-his-genes-made-him-do-it
No i have not experienced those symptoms.

If it is how his lawyer claims, his genes dont produced as much MAO-A which hampers his decision making in the prefrontal cortex, making him more impulsive.

I thought it was important to read this part of the article:

So far, a skilled defense lawyer might weave a tale that the bad gene had gotten the better of the European American defendant. The key scientific problem is that about 34 percent of Europeans have the warrior gene. Yet, homicide is extremely rare at a population level with only about one person in 100 committing a homicide during their lives. If the gene were used to predict homicide, it would be wrong more than 33 times for every one occasion that it was right
I dont think this should be a concern for ppl who are considering MAOIs. This is most likely a lawyer using a small bit of science and a ton of BS to win their case.

Where does it say that taking an MAOI could reproduce warrior gene. This guy was not on an MAOI. They are claiming that he doesnt produce enough MAO-A. Nardil inhibits both MAOI-A, and MAOI-B.

They sound like they could theoretically have similar effects, but theres just not enough evidence to link MAOIs with a gene defect.
 
#124 ·
Hey Mr.T quick question about constipation.

At 60 mg, my movements have been much more infrequent. I believe every 5-6 days. I know last time I took Nardil and increased it to 75 quickly that I actually had to wait 13 days one time!

Anyways. Is there a severe issue with the constipation? I know it can cause hemmeroids which is fine, but can it cause huge colon issues like cancer and ****?

Currently I'm doing my best to alleviate the constipation by drinking mad amounts of water daily and eating vegetables like crazy.

I've actually gone dairy, lactose and gluten free to see if that is the cause of my nausea since I'm dairy/lactose intolerant (but I've always cut those out of my diet) just recently did the gluten because it isn't as bad of an intolerance and you never know! Until then I purchased Zantac/Gravol to cover nausea (which I still have NO idea why I'm getting it).

Doing well still on the Nardil. So easy when you take it slow.
 
#131 ·
Hey Mr.T quick question about constipation.

At 60 mg, my movements have been much more infrequent. I believe every 5-6 days. I know last time I took Nardil and increased it to 75 quickly that I actually had to wait 13 days one time!

Anyways. Is there a severe issue with the constipation? I know it can cause hemmeroids which is fine, but can it cause huge colon issues like cancer and ****?

Currently I'm doing my best to alleviate the constipation by drinking mad amounts of water daily and eating vegetables like crazy.

I've actually gone dairy, lactose and gluten free to see if that is the cause of my nausea since I'm dairy/lactose intolerant (but I've always cut those out of my diet) just recently did the gluten because it isn't as bad of an intolerance and you never know! Until then I purchased Zantac/Gravol to cover nausea (which I still have NO idea why I'm getting it).

Doing well still on the Nardil. So easy when you take it slow.
Start adding a magnesium supplement at night.

I use ZMA which is zinc magnesium aspartate: its the most highly bioavailable form of magnesium. I take it every night, and trust me i never have a problem going
 
#132 ·
Hi mr t I'm on Nardil for 9 weeks on a dose of 60 mg. Before I started with 15 mg and after 5 weeks I gradually reach the actual dose of 60 mg.

I still don't see any positive effect, only side effects like constipation, anorgasmia, insomnia, etc.

Do you think 9-10 weeks are still few? I have to continue taking it or this med isn't good for me?
 
#134 ·
Maoi diet list

Here is the link to pdf file i uploaded:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/105365962

I think this is one of the better ive found online and is far more than the original MAOI diet lists. I dont agree completely with this list but it is more reasonable than most others. I will list my disagreements below.

**A few of my own notes on this list**:

I've found these "prohibited" foods OK to eat:
Cheeses: cheddar, provolone, parmensan
Soy sauce
Caffeine
Chocolate
whey protein powder
 
#136 ·
Not saying this just for the sake of dissagreeing but in my experiance i'd spend a week really hitting it with a higher dose like 90mg.. see if it kicks it into action. If it does then you can lower it to help with the side effects. That's just my experiance with the only way i've been able to get nardil to work for me.
I can spend months on 45 with no help.. it's not until i hit it with high doises for a short period that i get the positive effects, but of course extra side effects during that time.
 
#137 ·
** ATTENTION**

Nardil does not work for social anxiety anymore since 2003 when the drug was sold to phizer they took out inactive ingredients and now doesnt work for social anxiety just for depression. You can check the internet theres THOUSANDS of people who complain about the new nardil after 2003 not working for Social anxiety anymore.
 
#138 ·
Why do you go around preaching that even though there is a bunch of people saying how good it works? You go around like a preacher trying to stop people from trying Nardil. I think your just mad that it didn't work for you, and thats inevitable with any drug. Sometimes it doesn't work. Your mad that it didn't help you and you want everyone to feel how bad you feel too. Thats some cowardly **** bro.
 
#140 ·
Hey mr t,

I'm trying an MAOI (Parnate) for the first time. I also need to get some major dental work done, and now I find out MAOIs present a real problem with dental anesthesia. I know one of the alternatives is to "simply" come off the MAOI for a week before; I'm not sure if there are any anesthetic alternatives or strong painkillers that are also an option.

Just wondering if you've come up against this problem, yet, yourself (being on Nardil) or if you have any more information on the subject.

Thanks!
 
#147 ·
Nothing would surprise me in that realm anymore -- even if they used emos!
Haha.

TC
 
#148 ·
here is a testimony of success adding lyrica to nardil. It was posted on another thread of mine.

Mr. T, I took your advice and got a 50mg script of Lyrica from my psychiatrist to augment with my low dose (45mg) of Nardil. Long story short, it is very effective at kicking anxiety's **s (as you so eloquently put it! lol).

BUT, and it's a very big BUT (unfortunately), the Lyrica gave me anorgasmia that was worse than if I'm just taking Nardil by itself.

After I started reading online reviews for Lyrica, I learned that it's a big problem for people who are using it. I didn't think 50mg, which is a pretty small dose overall, would cause it but I was definately wrong.

So, now I'm contemplating trying it again with the smallest dose available for Lyrica, which is 25mg. The 50mg worked so well at alleviating my anxiety that I'm hoping that 25mg might work okay as well with maybe not so much anorgasmia. Anyways, it's worth a shot.

But anyone who is interested in trying Lyrica with low dose Nardil, it does work well to kill your anxiety. If sex isn't a concern for you at the moment, I would highly recommend it.
 
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