Nardil (2nd time) + Stimulant (possibly)

[gilmourr]

Originally Posted by spartan7

the new nardil does not work anymore. Since 2003 when phizer bought nardil from another company they took out inactive ingredidents that were used for social anxiety. You can find thousands i mean thousands of people who say since 2003 the reformulation that nardil does not work. And i peronsally have tried it myself.

You sir are a village idiot. Also, Phizer is spelled Pfizer. Also, GTFO of my thread.

[blakeyz]

Originally Posted by gilmourr

Medical textbooks will always say not to combine stimulants or TCA's with MAOI's. They are overly conservative as they should be. Textbooks are always very careful to teach being very very responsible and mitigating any exposure to liability.

You will only see it in journals because journals are trials usually based on people that are usually not helped by monotherapy. They're more progressive and innovative towards the patients symptoms and alleviating their issues.

I am talking more about adding the TCA to someone who has already started a MAOI then being able to take the two together

http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/split/TCAs-+-MAOIs.html

Personally I have nortriptyline in front of me but am hesitant to even take a small amount because of the stuff I have been reading. That link I posted has some writings from Psychiatrists

"Starting a TCA after an irreversible MAOI is relatively risky until the MAO has had a chance to be replaced. The half-life of MAO is about 5 days, so the MAO is about 75% of steady state after 10 days. Very small TCA doses will have a much more greater effect than usual (this is a good example of a synergistic drug interaction).

The reverse is quite different (adding a MAOI to a TCA) since the uptake of tyramine from the gut is blocked by the TCA."

"There are certainly individuals who will tolerate [low doses of nortriptyline while still on an MAOI], but many who will not. The potential consequences strongly support waiting at least 10 days, and checking BP closely when starting the TCA.

Overall I'm not sure starting with a low dose quickly is much better than waiting a few more days and raising the dose more rapidly."

[Ben12]

Originally Posted by spartan7

the new nardil does not work anymore. Since 2003 when phizer bought nardil from another company they took out inactive ingredidents that were used for social anxiety. You can find thousands i mean thousands of people who say since 2003 the reformulation that nardil does not work. And i peronsally have tried it myself.

I'm sure there have been thousands of people on Nardil since 2003, but finding all them to say that it doesn't work since!? Hahaha lol.

[gilmourr]

Couldn't get a stimulant to add in adjunct to the MAOI from my GP either. Guess I'm going to spend a lot of time on Nardil first and then when my referral to CAMH goes in (whoever lives in Canada) I might be able to get it from a supervising psych.

Got a copy of my thyroid test, it only has my TSH score which was 2.02, I thought there were more levels of thyroid to test for?

Going to stay on 45 mg until the daytime fatigue stops. Might take a few weeks, but hopefully it should stop. Gonna try and settle on 75 mg again but move a lot slower.

[Ben12]

Originally Posted by gilmourr

Couldn't get a stimulant to add in adjunct to the MAOI from my GP either. Guess I'm going to spend a lot of time on Nardil first and then when my referral to CAMH goes in (whoever lives in Canada) I might be able to get it from a supervising psych.

Got a copy of my thyroid test, it only has my TSH score which was 2.02, I thought there were more levels of thyroid to test for?

Going to stay on 45 mg until the daytime fatigue stops. Might take a few weeks, but hopefully it should stop. Gonna try and settle on 75 mg again but move a lot slower.

Lol go Canada!

[gilmourr]

YUP. 7 days in. Feel better than being on Zoloft even though I'm quite tired up until 7 pm. I get a lot of reading done, feeling more interested in things slowly again being on it.

Going to stick on 45 mg for I think 6 weeks and see if my energy can improve without using any additional drugs. Then if it does I'll know that it's just a waiting game and that I'll have to take it slowwwwww.

I think that SSRI's really **** with my interests, not sure why, but they seem to do that. Lots of apathy on them.

Still dreaming, but I think it's getting better! Still waiting on dreams being entirely eliminated

[Ben12]

Is the Nardil you something that you take once or twice a day? Just curious but how tired does it make I you?

[gilmourr]

I've only had to take a nap twice out of the first 7 days. It's not as bad the 2nd time around. It should pass, but if you have to work while taking it then it's gonna be a struggle until the sedation passes.

I really like the idea of being on this med though because of it's effect on melatonin, serontonin, GABA, etc. Very non-selective.

During the day it feels like I'm on 2 mg of ativan always, it's like a happy sedation. My cognitive abilities are not impaired at all, still very sharp, I'm just kind of giddy high/sedated.

[blakeyz]

Originally Posted by gilmourr

Still dreaming, but I think it's getting better! Still waiting on dreams being entirely eliminated

Why is that ?
I'm looking forward to getting my dreams back now that I have added nortriptyline. Drugs that boost Norepinephrine give me crazy lucid dreams that are like being a main character in a movie each night

[gilmourr]

I guess some people enjoy dreaming, but my dreams are really annoying/traumatizing at times. They repeat panic episodes I've had, they have been very lucid dreams/vivid, and I really do hate them.

Last night I dreamt about my village burning down and having to continuously haul buckets of water from the shore to put out this enormous fire. I swear the dream was like hours long, and in the end after they realized I was trying to put out the fire they napalm striked the shoreline and I woke up. I'd rather not dream things like that.. haha.

Crazier dreams make me feel crazier in the morning, they add to my disorientation and make me feel more depressed. Plus it's a constant reminder of past things. Not that I have PTSD or anything.

I think I'll stay on 45 mg for 3-4 weeks, then bump up to 60 mg. I'd really love to check my MAO enzyme activity, but I need a new psych :S

[spartan7]

The new nardil since 2003 does not work anymore for social anxiety you can read thousand of reviews of people complaining that it no longer works. I tried it myself didnt work. Waste of time

[puppy]

That's interesting spartan7. I just have one more question, does the new nardil since 2003 work anymore for social anxiety?

[gilmourr]

Originally Posted by spartan7

The new nardil since 2003 does not work anymore for social anxiety you can read thousand of reviews of people complaining that it no longer works. I tried it myself didnt work. Waste of time

Can a moderator ban this n00b. Adds nothing to the forums except a repetitive robotic statement about Nardil not working, when in FACT it works as well, if not better than most medicines out there.

[Inshallah]

spartan7 still going strong

[gilmourr]

Day 11, depressive episodes are better in that they are not hitting extremes where I can't think/get headaches/ and have trouble living.

Tiredness isn't THAT bad @ 45 mg. Ortho hypotension is definitely acting up. No constipation/urinary retention. Waking up at 6 am. Still dreaming. Going to bed around 12-1 AM. I'm able to sleep longer if I want.

BP 130/79, little bit lower than my regular 140/90. Interests are SLOWLY coming back. May be placebo though.

[PsychInsighter]

Ok i have been on nardil for 17 years and when it was reformulated in 2003 you must tweak and adjust the new version in order to get it to work like the old version. 1.new version metabolizes less so you might have to take 2 at a time in order to boost the intake. for ex. 2 in the a.m. 1 at noon 2 in evening 2 at bedtime tweak and adjust to your liking. the old nardil would work just by taking 1 three or four times a day...not anymore!!!!!!...also the new nardil seems to have lost a lot of its anxiolotic properties and social phobia ... neurontin will help in this area because it boosts gaba and helps the new nardil boost its gaba boosting properties which i believe are where its anti-anxiety effects come from

[viper1431]

Makes sense. After all the only claims that people made when reformulated was that the coating that was removed meant some of the nardil was killed in the stomach before reaching the intestines and being absorbed.. common sense would dictate if that's the case then a higher dose means more making it past the stomach.

Still havn't seen an actual scientific study from the people that claim this happens though showing any effieciency changes, just a few people on the internet saying it pooped out on them. But nardil, and every other anti-depressant, poops out on people all the time.

[Ben12]

What do you guys mean by pooped out?

[viper1431]

When you are on a med and it suddenly seems to stop working.

[Inshallah]

Originally Posted by viper1431

Makes sense. After all the only claims that people made when reformulated was that the coating that was removed meant some of the nardil was killed in the stomach before reaching the intestines and being absorbed.. common sense would dictate if that's the case then a higher dose means more making it past the stomach.

Still havn't seen an actual scientific study from the people that claim this happens though showing any effieciency changes, just a few people on the internet saying it pooped out on them. But nardil, and every other anti-depressant, poops out on people all the time.

Aha, that would be a possible reason yes. Although on the other hand, it would surprise me if Pfizer made such a mistake as well.