Nardil (2nd time) + Stimulant (possibly)

[gilmourr]

Starting nardil up. Have a very optimistic view on this combination, so my mood is slightly lifted.

Taking 45 mg a day currently until side effects stop. Right now I just have daytime sleepiness again. I take a 1-2 hour nap and feel better.

I take 15 mg at 10 AM, and 30 mg at 8 pm.

Not sure if it takes a few days for REM sleep to be inhibited but I was dreaming again last night wildly, but I also took ambien because Nardil suprisingly didn't make me sleepy this time at night. It's weird that when I took it yesterday in the morning that it made me sleepy in the afternoon, but when I took it at night it didn't make me sleepy :S

** Also taking a B6 supplement again for the deficiency, and will probably use melatonin + unisom (Doxylamine succinate) for any insomnia.

[konamitech]

[QUOTE=gilmourr;1060101501]Starting nardil up. Have a very optimistic view on this combination, so my mood is slightly lifted.

Taking 45 mg a day currently until side effects stop. Right now I just have daytime sleepiness again. I take a 1-2 hour nap and feel better.

I take 15 mg at 10 AM, and 30 mg at 8 pm.[/QUOTE

good luck gilmourr
Nardil has been a wonderful drug for me ---unfortunately i had to stop taking it due to Gastro complications and impotence.

[viper1431]

Wouldn't you have slept through the sleepy period when you took it at night? If you took one at 10am and was tired in the afternoon then i assume it was a few hours later depending on when you define afternoon.. so depending on when you went to sleep you could have been asleep if any period of tirednesss was going to happen some hours after the 8pm dose.

personally i take it all right before going to sleep, i take 12-25mg of seroquel at the same time though to get off to sleep.. that way i don't have to feel the nardil whilst awake.. well any tiredness mostly. I do sometimes need the afternoon nap though that seems to be famous with nardil regardless of when you take it.

[gilmourr]

Originally Posted by viper1431

Wouldn't you have slept through the sleepy period when you took it at night? If you took one at 10am and was tired in the afternoon then i assume it was a few hours later depending on when you define afternoon.. so depending on when you went to sleep you could have been asleep if any period of tirednesss was going to happen some hours after the 8pm dose.

personally i take it all right before going to sleep, i take 12-25mg of seroquel at the same time though to get off to sleep.. that way i don't have to feel the nardil whilst awake.. well any tiredness mostly. I do sometimes need the afternoon nap though that seems to be famous with nardil regardless of when you take it.

What I'm trying to say is that for some reason I wasn't sleep after taking my Nardil at night last night. During the day when I take my dose I feel sleep after it though. Weird eh? But I'm trying again tonight, and taking some melatonin also. If I can't sleep again I'm going to use unisom because I don't want to use ambien or seroquel. Hopefully no dreams tonight. I'm not sure how long it takes to inhibit REM stage of sleep and stop my dreams.

[gilmourr]

I officially hate night time. Couldn't sleep that well again, laid in bed from 11 pm until 2:30 am, then woke up about 4 times.

I'm guessing Nardil isn't in my system yet because it would make me sleepy before and wake me up in the morning, which it hasn't. It also stops all dreams which it hasn't either. Plus now I'm getting brain shocks which happen when I stop a med, which is Zoloft and I'm guessing the MAOI isn't in effect yet so I'm having withdrawal symptoms.

Depression hit an all time high last night. Pretty close to walking to my hospital. Not sure why the depression becomes 20 times more overwhelming at night, but it does. Maybe it's the darkness, or the hours of thinking to myself, or the wild dreams. But I know for a fact that at night I feel like cutting out my own heart and stabbing it the depression is so bad. It's painful.

EDIT: Also if someone can provide references to journals about the octopamine hypothesis regarding Nardil that would be great, and would help me with possibly getting a stimulant.

[Ben12]

How long ago did you stop the Zoloft? Just wondering because isn't there a washout period before starting the Nardil?

[gilmourr]

Originally Posted by Ben12

How long ago did you stop the Zoloft? Just wondering because isn't there a washout period before starting the Nardil?

Not really. When going from SSRI to MAOI it's pretty safe to just wait a few days. I just waited 2.

It's more when going from MAOI to SSRI. And that is because MAO does not regenerate for a week or 2 apparently. So if you add a SSRI it may elevate your serotonin and you have no way of breaking it down.

[ourwater]

Originally Posted by gilmourr

Not really. When going from SSRI to MAOI it's pretty safe to just wait a few days. I just waited 2.

It's more when going from MAOI to SSRI. And that is because MAO does not regenerate for a week or 2 apparently. So if you add a SSRI it may elevate your serotonin and you have no way of breaking it down.

Zoloft can show up in your system for about a month, a week or two is just the effects.

[gilmourr]

Originally Posted by ourwater

Zoloft can show up in your system for about a month, a week or two is just the effects.

I'm sure it can show up in your system since 5 half-lives is enough to clear 96.88% of it out of your body. But after a month there is going to be the most negligible amount of drug in your body that it will not matter.

1-2 weeks is standard for changing from MAOI to SSRI, but I really think the SSRI to MAOI wash out period is overstated just to reduce any liability whatsoever, even if it means putting patients through an overly lengthy withdrawal period.

[ourwater]

Originally Posted by gilmourr

I'm sure it can show up in your system since 5 half-lives is enough to clear 96.88% of it out of your body. But after a month there is going to be the most negligible amount of drug in your body that it will not matter.

1-2 weeks is standard for changing from MAOI to SSRI, but I really think the SSRI to MAOI wash out period is overstated just to reduce any liability whatsoever, even if it means putting patients through an overly lengthy withdrawal period.

Yes, but you need to avoid supplements and herbs between that period, and I found that taking St Johns Wart even after a month caused side effects that were the same as side effects while taking the St Johns Wart while on Zoloft. I did it as a test. I have taken St Johns Wart for many months with no side effects like those I experienced after my Zoloft discontinuation.

[blakeyz]

I think it's all overstated
If Parnate doesn't work there is no way I am waiting 2 weeks. I think last time I dropped Parnate I waited 8-9 days to start Anafranil

[gilmourr]

4th day in and still dreaming like crazy. Took melatonin + unisom so that I'd get to bed earlier. 1 AM - 10 AM, good lengthy sleep.

Really hoping that Nardil gives me back my interests. Even in my last depressive episode I still had interests, but nothing this time. I'm pretty sure that you can't force interests because I've been trying to read, exercise, do anything, but it really isn't even close to being the same. My intuition says that it will all come back like it did previously when a medication starts working again.

No side effects yet -- I'm expecting them to appear by day 9 or 10. Probably starting with constipation. Usually the last one to appear is urinary retention.

[viper1431]

My memory is crappy so i can't quite remember now how long it took for certain things to get better whilst i've been on nardil, i'm sure it was at least a couple weeks though and i have a feeling at least 1 or 2 more than that. For me it was subtle.. i would just notice myself doing small things i'd normally be too lazy or have no interest in doing and it would increase from there until i find myself more freeling approaching people to talk etc. For me it wasn't like an obvious instant Bam waking up one morning feeling like i could do anything i wanted, if that all makes sense.

[gilmourr]

Originally Posted by viper1431

My memory is crappy so i can't quite remember now how long it took for certain things to get better whilst i've been on nardil, i'm sure it was at least a couple weeks though and i have a feeling at least 1 or 2 more than that. For me it was subtle.. i would just notice myself doing small things i'd normally be too lazy or have no interest in doing and it would increase from there until i find myself more freeling approaching people to talk etc. For me it wasn't like an obvious instant Bam waking up one morning feeling like i could do anything i wanted, if that all makes sense.

Yeah that's exactly how it worked last time. The only meds where I have received overnight lightbulb moments were with remeron (kinda) and parnate

The others like zoloft, cipralex and Nardil all took at least 3 weeks for me to notice me doing other things. But they never took away all of the depression and definitely not all of the anxiety, which is why I need to find an adjunctive medicine.

[gilmourr]

I was thinking about Zoloft the other day and I'm not sure if it ever actually worked.. my hypothesis:

First drug that worked on depression was cipralex. I had to stop it because of major major insomnia. I took it for 10 weeks. I immediately switched to zoloft and my mood was as good if not a little bit better. I stayed on for 8 weeks. I'm thinking the cipralex was still in my system and zoloft just continued the effect or something. Maybe that's why it worked the 1st time. Makes me feel a bit better about discontinuing zoloft after 28 days of it not doing anything this time around.

The MAO inhibitor still hasn't helped with my dreams, still dreaming loads. And I don't think it's working yet because I'm getting brain shocks which are usually from lack of serotonin. So since I went from SSRI to MAOI it may be that it's taking time to change the mechanism of action.

Also, has anyone tested for MAO enzyme activity through a blood test? I heard you can see how much MAO activity there is that way you know how much of the drug is in your system. Is this possible?

[gilmourr]

Weird but for some reason I felt like today my anxiety was much higher. Haven't really felt that SE ever. My stomach is kinda hurting and I feel some of my muscles and stomach scrunch up randomly now, even when I'm alone and stuff.

Probably means nothing and will pass, but not an overall big fan of more anxiety. My depression is definitely has come down from severe/verge of suicide which is excellent, but still a huge amount of room to go. Nice to just be moderately depressed, severe is a challenge to keep going

[gilmourr]

So I wasn't able to get Vyvanse, nortryp or desipramine from my psych. Going to see if I can from my GP tomorrow.

Seems to be a big liability for doctors to have on their conscience.

[blakeyz]

Originally Posted by gilmourr

So I wasn't able to get Vyvanse, nortryp or desipramine from my psych. Going to see if I can from my GP tomorrow.

Seems to be a big liability for doctors to have on their conscience.

Yeah I got Nortryp from diff doctor
I have been reading in journals that you have to start the TCA first and then slowly add MAOI. I have read people at Dr-bob doing it the other way around with MAOI first but it definitely is a contradiction in medical literature.

[gilmourr]

Medical textbooks will always say not to combine stimulants or TCA's with MAOI's. They are overly conservative as they should be. Textbooks are always very careful to teach being very very responsible and mitigating any exposure to liability.

You will only see it in journals because journals are trials usually based on people that are usually not helped by monotherapy. They're more progressive and innovative towards the patients symptoms and alleviating their issues.

[spartan7]

the new nardil does not work anymore. Since 2003 when phizer bought nardil from another company they took out inactive ingredidents that were used for social anxiety. You can find thousands i mean thousands of people who say since 2003 the reformulation that nardil does not work. And i peronsally have tried it myself.