long term effects of long term antidepressant use?

[bruno2006]

Originally Posted by Xande

Thanks for your advice, I will keep this in mind even though it may take a lot of effort to find the underlying causes. I appreciate you not taking an "all meds are evil" kind of stance, but actually explaining the message you're truly trying to get across.

Hey xande,

I believe that anything that can help people has a place in medicine.

A lot of people, including doctors, really do not understand the hell people with anxiety and depression go through. I am all about healing and living a healthy, productive life in society. Its true that some folks are extremely happy with their antidepressant and their life is content. However, in my case and in the case of many people, we began to see the harm of the drugs we were taking and that there truly was another way. So, I began to do research and seek truth, whatever it was. I found that in many cases drugs could and should be discontinued and the underlying cause explored. Even simple deficiencies such has omega 3 or 6 can cause severe depression and anxiety, but do psychiatrists test for these things before prescribing you the newest drug?

I wish you luck on your journey of healing. Please keep an open mind when it comes to alternative forms of treatment and let me know if you need any advice or resources.

[bruno2006]

Originally Posted by Dpbthgt

There may be a cause for depression, I'm not sure, but what about anxiety? I've battled anxiety since I was a child and it has limited my life, negatively impacted it, and ruined a chance at many choices and possibilities. Believe me if someone came to me or my doctor said I can cure you of your anxiety believe me I would do it in an instant. But, until that happens I can either live a suboptimal life or try and mask the problem with medication. I don't know what else to do.

Hey Dpbthgt,

may I ask what all you have done to try and find the root cause of your suffering? Have you done any tests or perhaps consulted with a holistic doctor? There are some really great books out there that can get you headed in the right direction. Let me know if you need help with anything as I would enjoy sharing my experiences with you.

[MavenMI6Agent009]

Originally Posted by bruno2006

Even simple deficiencies such has omega 3 or 6 can cause severe depression and anxiety, but do psychiatrists test for these things before prescribing you the newest drug?.

I wish all psychiatrists would do blood testing for nutritional deficiencies or other underlying illnessses. My neuropsychiatrist was the only one that would do such testing as my current psychiatrist traditonally does psychoanalysis and medication management.

[bruno2006]

Originally Posted by MavenMI6Agent009

I wish all psychiatrists would do blood testing for nutritional deficiencies or other underlying illnessses. My neuropsychiatrist was the only one that would do such testing as my current psychiatrist traditonally does psychoanalysis and medication management.

I agree. They should have a standard for anyone walking in the door you know? But here is the problem, can you imagine how much money they would lose? Big Pharma does not like that idea and I believe this is one reason why almost all psychiatrists never test for such things: money money. Keeping people on drugs and "managing" the problem pays much more than fixing the problem.

[kev]

These arguments are always the same. Nobody really has a clue.

Some of the more extreme fears of antidepressants could be anxiety-based.

[bruno2006]

Originally Posted by kev

These arguments are always the same. Nobody really has a clue.

Some of the more extreme fears of antidepressants could be anxiety-based.

Actually these arguments are not always the same. Go look through them and you will see both sides have brought up good points. And the whole thing about "no clue", yea just not going to fly sorry.

Anxiety based? Yea I will give you that. This is quite common I think, but, on the other hand, what about the ones who developed this anxiety or fear of antidepressants AFTER being harmed by them?

[boostinggtir]

Originally Posted by MavenMI6Agent009

I wish all psychiatrists would do blood testing for nutritional deficiencies or other underlying illnessses. My neuropsychiatrist was the only one that would do such testing as my current psychiatrist traditonally does psychoanalysis and medication management.

Why the **** would they do that??? when they can just throw some random drug at you during ur 5 minute consultation...??? realtalk lol

Nardil has dramatically improved my cognitive thinking.. Is there any info regarding long term effects of Nardil? Seems to make me very flatulent (aka gass) lol

In terms of the liver issue, I havn't had any tests done since I started taking. Though there are supplements out there that dramatically increase the livers ability. So any increased enzyme elevation from nardil stress, could probably be easily corrected. (probably) Will have my tests done in a week or so, so I'm not just talking out my ***. hahah Gota walk the walk

[bruno2006]

Originally Posted by boostinggtir

Why the **** would they do that??? when they can just throw some random drug at you during ur 5 minute consultation...??? realtalk lol

Nardil has dramatically improved my cognitive thinking.. Is there any info regarding long term effects of Nardil? Seems to make me very flatulent (aka gass) lol

In terms of the liver issue, I havn't had any tests done since I started taking. Though there are supplements out there that dramatically increase the livers ability. So any increased enzyme elevation from nardil stress, could probably be easily corrected. (probably) Will have my tests done in a week or so, so I'm not just talking out my ***. hahah Gota walk the walk

Interesting post in regards to the Nardil and cognitive thinking (and I will definitely NOT disagree with you about throwing a drug at someone lol). If I am not mistaken, it is an MAOI correct? My experience and research has to do with SSRIs and atypical antidepressants and their cognitive effects. And yes, in terms of liver I would monitor that because that is one thing I read about Nardil; it can cause liver issues. Anyways have a good one

[bruno2006]

Originally Posted by ntdc

no you seem to miss the point, because the medications are widely prescribed this means doctors see a lot of patients on these medications. in some cases like psychiatry a very high % of a doctors patients will be taking these medications, in many cases for a long stretch of time (years, decades). if there were a high chance of side effects someone would notice and publish a paper. in fact even minor side effects like bruxism from ssri were published based on a small # of case reports many years ago. No one can say for sure how a particular medication will react with you, maybe there is some chance of it, but on the average its not been shown theres a serious problem. Obviously a healthy person should not be taking these medications, but if you are ill like cant function in society, considering blowing your head off, etc.. then taking a risk of some side effects is probably better than the alternative. This is the case with basically any medication.

Your argument is very logical and I see where you are coming from. On the other hand, as opposed to acute, horrible side effects such as suicide or violence, negative cognitive effects are much more subtle and not easily noticeable by doctors or patients. Often times, it takes years and years of being on the drug before one starts having noticeable negative cognitive side effects. Moreover, you do not take a drug one day and then next week have cognitive problems, rather, the problems creep up on you. Likewise, with most antidepressants being prescribed by primary care doctors, there is a small chance that one day, say after 10 years on a drug, a doctor concludes that the patient is experiencing long term cognitive effects from the drugs. This is just not going to happen. Main stream doctors are trained to prescribe drugs for everything. If someone complains about cognitive problems on a drug, the doctors are likely going to increase the dose or try another drug, not go write a paper about it. So, with this in mind, one can easily see that even though the drugs have been around for a while, the negative cognitive side effects can still happen and do happen.


I do agree with you, as mentioned before, that taking the drug for severe situations is, obviously, not only logical but also probably the best immediate solution to the problem. However, what many people fail to realize is that depression, anxiety, and other related conditions are almost always the result of an underlying cause that needs to be corrected and not covered up with drugs that have proven to be toxic. Simply typing in a search engine "nutritional causes of mental illness" yields a vast number of reasons why someone may be suffering from a mental health issue.

[Cuauhtemoc]

I've been taking paxil for 6 years, no problems here. And my job is basically using my brain and I think I'm smarter than ever lol.

[bruno2006]

Originally Posted by Cuauhtemoc

I've been taking paxil for 6 years, no problems here. And my job is basically using my brain and I think I'm smarter than ever lol.

That is great news. Unfortunately many people are not as lucky as you are. That drug even has its own website dedicated to all the people who are suffering from withdrawal or had to stop because of the side effects. Have you heard of paxilprogress.org (or .com can't remember which one it is)? Pretty interesting site if you ever need help. People there have termed the drug "paxhell".

I was on that drug for I think over two years. It made me gain way too much weight and I had absolutely no libido at all. I also craved alcohol constantly and would go on binges which never happened prior to taking the drug. Now that I don't take it, I am back in shape and no longer crave alcohol

[Cuauhtemoc]

I didn't have that, my libido is just fine, I just take longer to reach an orgasm.
I was never really into alcohol, but paxil makes alcohol stronger, but that's not really bad either.

I have a theory, paxil must be taken alone, do not use it with benzos, propanolol and especially alcohol or illegal drugs. I read tons of things in relation to this and in almost all cases people seem to combine various different drugs with SSRI's. The time I took some clonazepam I felt really bad the next day, so I never took it again and I feel just fine.

About the alcohol binges, I gotta say that after starting paxil I felt free for the first time in my life, so I wanted to try different things, you know, from the shy nerd I became the guy who went to all parties, so that may be your case, but I could use my rationality and tell myself alcohol is bad and I do not drink it.

And no weight gain here, but I would certainly appreciate it lol.

[boostinggtir]

Originally Posted by bruno2006

Interesting post in regards to the Nardil and cognitive thinking (and I will definitely NOT disagree with you about throwing a drug at someone lol). If I am not mistaken, it is an MAOI correct? My experience and research has to do with SSRIs and atypical antidepressants and their cognitive effects. And yes, in terms of liver I would monitor that because that is one thing I read about Nardil; it can cause liver issues. Anyways have a good one

Yes it is a MAOI.. Amazing drug for me at this point. This drug was my last ditch effort in terms of been able to have a capacity to enjoy anything. I found the recommendation from this website. I mean who wouldn't wont more dopamine and gaba ect.. with out feeling cracked out. lol Takes wile to get the real effect. (am just starting to get after 6 week) If you or anyone out there has tried a bunch of various ineffective meds, I strongly recommend. It's sad that such an effective drug is so far from main stream an never used. My chemist didn't even stock it till I asked the to. I love you nardil. (warning: can an will cause no sleep) lol joke,... kinda

[kev]

Originally Posted by bruno2006

Actually these arguments are not always the same. Go look through them and you will see both sides have brought up good points. And the whole thing about "no clue", yea just not going to fly sorry.

Anxiety based? Yea I will give you that. This is quite common I think, but, on the other hand, what about the ones who developed this anxiety or fear of antidepressants AFTER being harmed by them?

I was speaking philosophically. Each person has their own view, but it has hard to come up with a universal view that discounts all the confounding factors. To analyze the brain, one must use the brain, which creates a lot of complications. It's a bit of a paradox.

How does one know without a doubt that antidepressants have harmed them? Anecdotal - which is certainly valid to the individual. But an outsider has trouble determining the validity of their statement with any scientific rigor.

[Cuauhtemoc]

I think one of the problems with these reviews is that most people that take antidepressants are obviously people with mental problems, not crazy, but with depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder...
So these are not really the most reliable reviewers.

For example, depression causes a decrease in libido, guy takes ssri for 1 week, says he got diminished libido, correlates it with the drug and blames it on the drug. While in fact it was the depression that caused this.
Then he drops the medicine, says he got even more depressed because of this(while in fact it was just the normal depression) and posts a topic saying how SSRI's are the devil and nobody should take them.

Tons of sufferers also tend to abuse substances, it's normal, it makes you feel happier.
Then they start taking antidepressant, take some benzos for help, drink a lot, mix it with adderall and then complain how it didn't work.

[boostinggtir]

Originally Posted by Cuauhtemoc

I think one of the problems with these reviews is that most people that take antidepressants are obviously people with mental problems, not crazy, but with depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder...
So these are not really the most reliable reviewers.

For example, depression causes a decrease in libido, guy takes ssri for 1 week, says he got diminished libido, correlates it with the drug and blames it on the drug While in fact it was the depression that caused this.

So because someone is depressed, they can't gauge a before/after of their own libido?


.Then he drops the medicine, says he got even more depressed because of this(while in fact it was just the normal depression) and posts a topic saying how SSRI's are the devil and nobody should take them.

If you think for a second that many of these drugs don't make many people feel far worse, you have no clue.


Tons of sufferers also tend to abuse substances, it's normal, it makes you feel happier.
Then they start taking antidepressant, take some benzos for help, drink a lot, mix it with adderall and then complain how it didn't work.

Agreed. Many people don't even give the meds a workable format from the start due to substance abuse ect...

[bruno2006]

Originally Posted by Cuauhtemoc

I think one of the problems with these reviews is that most people that take antidepressants are obviously people with mental problems, not crazy, but with depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder...
So these are not really the most reliable reviewers.

For example, depression causes a decrease in libido, guy takes ssri for 1 week, says he got diminished libido, correlates it with the drug and blames it on the drug. While in fact it was the depression that caused this.
Then he drops the medicine, says he got even more depressed because of this(while in fact it was just the normal depression) and posts a topic saying how SSRI's are the devil and nobody should take them.

Tons of sufferers also tend to abuse substances, it's normal, it makes you feel happier.
Then they start taking antidepressant, take some benzos for help, drink a lot, mix it with adderall and then complain how it didn't work.

I can see where you are coming from when you talk about reliable views. On the other hand, it also depends on what condition you have and how severe you are suffering. Like me, I have anxiety and in no way is my review of a drug less accurate than anyone else's. If I take a drug and it helps, then it helps. If it causes bad side effects, then it causes bad side effects. At the same time, we are the ones taking the drugs so how on earth are they going to get other reviews? Having anxiety or depression DOES NOT make you delusional or stupid, rather you simply feel like sh***.

Moving on, your second part is not a very logical or convincing argument. Your assuming, again, that because this person has a mental health issue he is somehow too stupid to realize things. It makes little since what you say. How can a person have no libido, take a drug, and then all of a sudden say "it was the drug that caused no libido."? Unless he is retarded, obviously he is going to have some since of himself and how his body is functioning. It seems as though your perspective of things is very limited. I have always had a great sex drive prior to antidepressants. Once I took paxil, I literally was unable to have an orgasm and gained so much weight. Is this some kind of difficult problem to solve to where I may have not accurately related the side effects to the drug? I think not. Paxil is well known for this and if it is not happening to you then be happy.

I too also agree with what you say about people suffering and using other substances, well somewhat anyway. But remember this, doctors are the ones who put you on five different drugs. Even though the drugs come from a pharmacy, it does not mean they are somehow safe or not toxic to your body. It is the same with illegal street drugs, they too have similar effects of prescription drugs. What it boils down to is this: a drug is a drug and mixing any kind of drugs can have good and bad effects on the user.

Your point of view of things seems to be a little inaccurate in that you assume the perception of people using antidepressants is unreliable and false when in fact this is probably only the case on a very small scale. You act like people do not want to feel better and are constantly looking for ways to discredit the drug they are taking. The majority of people are not as dumb as one would think and just because they are dealing with a mental health issue does not make their outlook on a drug bogus. Lastly, keep in mind that a drug will NEVER cure your mental health issue and you should focus on finding the underlying cause. Depression and anxiety are ALMOST always the result of an underlying cause and drugs will only cover things up.

[bruno2006]

Originally Posted by kev

I was speaking philosophically. Each person has their own view, but it has hard to come up with a universal view that discounts all the confounding factors. To analyze the brain, one must use the brain, which creates a lot of complications. It's a bit of a paradox.

How does one know without a doubt that antidepressants have harmed them? Anecdotal - which is certainly valid to the individual. But an outsider has trouble determining the validity of their statement with any scientific rigor.

I agree with you when you say each person has his own view and a universal view is hard to come up with. No matter what, there will always be conflicting view points on a matter such as the long term effects of antidepressants.

Granted, it can be pretty complicated to know without a doubt that the depression drugs the person is taking are without a doubt the causing harm. Who says it must only be anecdotal? Does it mean that just because it may be difficult to uncover the reason why you are having symptoms such as cognitive decline that you cannot uncover the probable culprit using science and reasoning? Its called investigating and using the process of the scientific method and logic. If, for example, you are a young male who is on antidepressants and you suddenly realize that your short term memory is fried, you can surely figure it out alone or with the help of others. You do research. You ask experts. You look at all possible factors. Eventually you will begin to hone in on a possible cause.

With anything that involves investigation, there is always going to be a chance that your conclusion is not correct. The whole point is to come to a reasonable conclusion. Welcome to science....

[hiddenaway]

[QUOTE]You clearly support the use of these toxic drugs and I hope that you educate yourself better on the dangers of them and the suffering they have caused for many many people. There are people who can benefit from these drugs, but they are not the answers to our problems of anxiety or related conditions.[QUOTE]

There are likely many underlying causes for depression that we are not aware of yet. I believe that depression is like cancer in that there are likely numerous pathways that cause it. SSRIs do not cure depression, but for many they offer relief. But there is no research evidence to show that depression is simply caused by some vitamin deficiency or other like you seem to suggest. Plenty of research has poured into that topic and it has not been supported. There are minor effects for things like omega-3s but this is not more a cure than anything else. To write off SSRIs are some sort of "Big Pharma" conspiracy is just silly. For many people SSRIs offer relief from a devastating and debilitating illness, for many it has saved their lives. I long for the day when we can uncover the true causes of depression and find true cures for the disease, when we can abandon SSRIs for something that truly remedies and erases the disease of depression. But that is not right now-- we know very little about it. SSRIs are the most effective treatment, in combination with therapy, that we have at the moment. I battled for many years with that same argument you use, that depression should be treated "naturally" and I was somehow weak willed to submit to use of SSRIs to relieve my depression. That argument hurts people and prevents them from getting the much needed treatment they need. I am all for finding alternative therapies-- if it works for you more power to you, but don't knock those of us who have experimented with every holistic, herbal, alternative treatment out there only to find no relief except through an SSRI.

[hiddenaway]

I think one of the problems with these reviews is that most people that take antidepressants are obviously people with mental problems, not crazy, but with depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder...
So these are not really the most reliable reviewers.

These are the only reviewers you can get-- the people that need and take the drug. Who else can gauge the usefulness of the drug? I get your point that longer use is needed often to determine what side effects may dissipate. It is true that some symptoms may be the easing of the depression. But in testing with hundreds of study participants things like loss of libido and weight gain are very commonly observed. The problem with many drug studies are that they last for 18 months at most. People who are on these drugs for 3, 5, 10 plus years experience different and longer-term side effects that are conveniently left out of published research. Whenever I want to know the true experience of taking one of these drugs I always turn to depression/anxiety boards for others who have taken the drug. I find these people to be incredibly more informative than any doctor-- people who have actually taken the drug.