Highly sedated

[MissMay1977]

Off some dye free Benadryl. This sh*t is better than canabis

[meyaj]

Ick, I hate the feeling of CNS-acting antihistamines. Really uncomfortable stuff.

Except in certain situations, like right now for me, when it's taken to potentiate an opiate drug and deal with the itching and nausea. It makes a pretty decent combo with the 20mg oxycodone I'm on at the moment. Now THIS **** is good, and I'm also highly sedated.

Cannabis and benadryl both make me feel really uncomfortable and restless though, so I don't know which I'd called better

BTW... are you allergic to the dye or something? Just wondering why you felt the fact it was dye-free was notable enough to mention.

[jim_morrison]

Originally Posted by meyaj

Ick, I hate the feeling of CNS-acting antihistamines. Really uncomfortable stuff.

Whats weird is that when I tried replacing my dose of mirtazapine with 2 mg of clonazepam for sleep, the clonazepam just ended up giving me more energy and keeping me from sleeping. How odd. Mirtazapine lulls me to sleep in comparrison.

[meyaj]

Originally Posted by jim_morrison

Whats weird is that when I tried replacing my dose of mirtazapine with 2 mg of clonazepam for sleep, the clonazepam just ended up giving me more energy and keeping me from sleeping. How odd. Mirtazapine lulls me to sleep in comparrison.

I'm not really sedated much by benzos or even the zopiclone I'm on, and I definitely get a perceived boost in energy from clonazepam, but the hypnotic and anxiolytic effects still make it easier for me to fall asleep. I can still be up and about, active, and relatively clear-headed on these drugs, and though they don't really make me feel tired, if I will myself to go to bed anyways, there is an unbelievable improvement in sleep onset, as well as less mid-night awakenings, and I feel notably more refreshed in the morning.

I've been adding 30mg mirtazapine at night to the zopiclone though, to help with the sleep and nausea as I taper off of the nortriptyline, and when combined I suddenly start to stumble around like a drunk! Very strange and it had my parents a bit concerned.

But mirtazapine has me sleeping 12+ hours a day, still feeling groggy, and constantly eating, so the last few days I haven't taken it because it's become obvious to me that the net effect of it is pretty negative for me. It's taking a little bit longer to fall asleep now, but with my smooth 1mg/day taper using my homemade tincture, it's still more than acceptable, and there has been no more of that awful nausea.

I'm already fairly overweight (my BMI is just shy of "obese"), self-conscious as all hell about it, and getting fatter is definitely not going to make more more socially confident. The hypersomnia and getting up at 4-5pm when it's practically already dark out very clearly has a strong negative impact on my mood.

Perhaps you need to give the clonazepam some time? Your body may need to adjust to you suddenly stopping your reliance on mirtazapine for sleep every night. Is there any reason in particular you switched to clonazepam? You'll likely have better luck with temazepam, which is a REALLY nice benzo IMO, and I'm sure I don't need to tell you it kicks the **** out of clonazepam in terms of sedative/hypnotic effect...

[jim_morrison]

Originally Posted by meyaj

Perhaps you need to give the clonazepam some time? Your body may need to adjust to you suddenly stopping your reliance on mirtazapine for sleep every night. Is there any reason in particular you switched to clonazepam? You'll likely have better luck with temazepam, which is a REALLY nice benzo IMO, and I'm sure I don't need to tell you it kicks the **** out of clonazepam in terms of sedative/hypnotic effect...

I didn't suddenly kick mirtazapine, I was originally on 30 mg, then about a month or so ago, I dropped it back to 15 mg of mirtazapine with 1 mg of clonazepam added at night, then given another few weeks, I decreased to mirt and upped the clonazepam again, so it wasn't a sudden process by any means. The reason I chose clonazepam was just the fact that it's the only benzo that I have a script for, and other members of my family have alot of success with it, I also thought that the long half life may work in my favour if i took it at night, by helping my insomnia at night, then social anxiety the next day.

But your right, the hypnotic benzo temazepam and the z drug zopiclone would probably be much better for sleep, since both lean towards higher potency at the GABA-A subtype a1, while clonazepam leans towards potency at subtypes a2 and a3. Even though all of the above mentioned are relatively nonselective, potency at a1 will obviously be more sedating.

Temazepam's half life is pretty long though isn't it? I was thinking of asking the doc for zopiclone instead since the half life is only 6 or so hours, since I have a tendency to overlseep. What do you think?

[meyaj]

Originally Posted by jim_morrison

I didn't suddenly kick mirtazapine, I was originally on 30 mg, then about a month or so ago, I dropped it back to 15 mg of mirtazapine with 1 mg of clonazepam added at night, then given another few weeks, I decreased to mirt and upped the clonazepam again, so it wasn't a sudden process by any means. The reason I chose clonazepam was just the fact that it's the only benzo that I have a script for, and other members of my family have alot of success with it, I also thought that the long half life may work in my favour if i took it at night by to help my insomnia, then social anxiety the next day.

But your right, the hypnotic benzo temazepam and the z drug zopiclone would probably be much better for sleep, since both lean towards higher potency at the GABA-A subtype a1, while clonazepam leans towards potency at subtypes a2 and a3. Even though all of the above mentioned are relatively nonselective, potency at a1 will obviously be more sedating.

Temazepam's half life is pretty long though isn't it? I was thinking of asking the doc for zopiclone instead since the half life is only 6 or so hours, since I have a tendency to overlseep. What do you think?

Temazepam is really kind of an intermediate-acting drug. The duration of the effects is not too different from zopiclone, in my opinion. Definitely shorter than clonazepam, anyways. But the half-life isn't necessarily precisely proportionate to how long-acting a drug is. Temazepam is around 8 hours which is pretty good. Zopiclone might be 6-7.

That's not to say that the zopiclone isn't worth trying though, but I hallucinate while on it it, and now that I'm receiving government disability benefits, zopiclone is oddly enough not a covered drug so I might just be switching back to temazepam myself, which I preferred in the first place. My current pdoc believes that zopiclone has less dependence issues (the evidence strongly disagrees), which is why I have to settle for it, but she's referred me to a more experienced pdoc who I'm hoping will be more up-to-date on the actual research and not so eager to eat up the drugs' marketing. But in reality, this might benefit you as it just makes it easier for a lot of people to obtain a zopiclone script than it otherwise might be.

I don't know about Australia but we've got 3 main hypnotic benzos here indicated for sleep:

Triazolam (short-acting, not very useful if you're prone to waking up. rebound effects can be harsh)
Temazepam (intermediate-acting, perfect duration IMO)
Nitrazepam (longer-acting, limited usefulness as I see it as you're likely going to wake up)

Again, I don't know about Australia, but temazepam is available in 30mg capsules here which, in terms of equipotency, is pretty much the single most strongest benzo dosage unit available next to a Xanax bar (which, for a number of reasons, is obviously not nearly as ideal as a sleep aid.)

[jim_morrison]

Originally Posted by meyaj

Temazepam is really kind of an intermediate-acting drug. The duration of the effects is not too different from zopiclone, in my opinion. Definitely shorter than clonazepam, anyways. But the half-life isn't necessarily precisely proportionate to how long-acting a drug is. Temazepam is around 8 hours which is pretty good. Zopiclone might be 6-7.

That's not to say that the zopiclone isn't worth trying though, but I hallucinate while on it it, and now that I'm receiving government disability benefits, zopiclone is oddly enough not a covered drug so I might just be switching back to temazepam myself, which I preferred in the first place. My current pdoc believes that zopiclone has less dependence issues (the evidence strongly disagrees), which is why I have to settle for it, but she's referred me to a more experienced pdoc who I'm hoping will be more up-to-date on the actual research and not so eager to eat up the drugs' marketing. But in reality, this might benefit you as it just makes it easier for a lot of people to obtain a zopiclone script than it otherwise might be.

I don't know about Australia but we've got 3 main hypnotic benzos here indicated for sleep:

Triazolam (short-acting, not very useful if you're prone to waking up. rebound effects can be harsh)
Temazepam (intermediate-acting, perfect duration IMO)
Nitrazepam (longer-acting, limited usefulness as I see it as you're likely going to wake up)

Again, I don't know about Australia, but temazepam is available in 30mg capsules here which, in terms of equipotency, is pretty much the single most strongest benzo dosage unit available next to a Xanax bar (which, for a number of reasons, is obviously not nearly as ideal as a sleep aid.)

The zopiclone hallucinations are a bit of a worry, but I guess it can't be much worse than the hallucinatory-like vivd dreams that I experience on mirtazapine. I've actually been experienceing something a bit odd since I've been taking 15 mg mirt together with 1 mg of clonazepam, I'll be on the verge of sleep, then I'll suddenly start to jerk around a bit, and think that I'm awake sitting at my computer or doing some other awake task, then I sort of wake up and realise I'm in bed lol.

Thanks for the input on temazepam though, I might ask for that because now that you mention it, I remember my pdoc once giving me a script for it a few years ago, but at the time I didn't really need a sleep med, so I don't think I ever filled it. At the same time though, he has said to me before that hed much rather I use mirtazapine for sleep than clonazepam (and so I assume all benzos.) Typical doc thing to say though I guess.

Let me know how you get on if your put back on temazepam though, sounds like a good sleep med. I think that I will always need clonazepam atleast prn to deal with social anxiety situations, so I'm always a bit wary of oversaturating my body with too many meds. Ideally I guess I'd like to take one antidepressant and one benzo/hypnotic. I guess thats a bit idealistic considering the severity of my disorders though, owell.

[meyaj]

Originally Posted by jim_morrison

Let me know how you get on if your put back on temazepam though, sounds like a good sleep med. I think that I will always need clonazepam atleast prn to deal with social anxiety situations, so I'm always a bit wary of oversaturating my body with too many meds. Ideally I guess I'd like to take one antidepressant and one benzo/hypnotic. I guess thats a bit idealistic considering the severity of my disorders though, owell.

Will do.

I can totally relate to the feeling that the perfect med solution isn't realistic for me at this point. I've been taking zopiclone every night for about half a year, and for the last 3 months have been taking 2mg clonazepam PRN. My clonazepam use is pretty erratic depending on my schedule and sometimes I can go a week or more without using it, and I haven't really exhibited much in the way of withdrawals. I suspect some slight rebound anxiety in the late afternoon but it's not enough to say. Either way, I'm actually pretty surprised I've been able to juggle those two relatively unscathed so far. I'm getting a lot of benefit on the sleep side of things, and seeing some improvement in terms of my openness to other people with the clonazepam, especially with my family, therapist and pdoc. My inability to feel comfortable communicating in the past with any of these people clearly impeded progress.

As far as just "one" anti-depressant, I've tried so many different combinations of two with no improvement in that area. If I lived in Europe, where SAMe is actually a prescription antidepressant (it's a dietary supplement here), it'd be a lot of different combinations of 3. And blah. The only direction I can really go in here is MAOIs now, which don't really lend themselves to combinations anyways.

I suspect I need to deal with my anxiety/social phobia and become an actually functional person before I fully tackle mood problems, but right now I feel like I'm sort of stuck in limbo as my goal is to get myself back in university, which is something that can't even happen until next September, which is a long freaking way away. I'm terrified of even getting a part time job as I'm living in the same home/community I was raised in, and I pretty much expect to run into people from my high-school past.

I was in a "gifted" program (same class of 98+ percentile intelligence students for 8 years), and everybody was a really high achiever except for me, and to even think of running into one of them again, with them seeing me and my situation, and the talk that I KNOW will pass on to eventually all of them, truly scares me to death. Rationally I know it's pretty inconsequential, and understand how ridiculous it is to let my own mental health suffer because of petty stuff like that, but I just can't get over it.

Social anxiety can just be so pernicious in that it works to constantly interfere with treatment. Especially with regards to the mood/motivation side of things, I often wonder whether some of these drugs I've tried in the past would have succeeded at some other point along the way where my state of mind has improved and I'm more in tune with myself. The thought that sheer TIMING of them might have some bearing on their efficacy is just one of the many things that works to keep me in a persistent state of self-doubt.

[Sunshine009]

[jim_morrison]

Originally Posted by meyaj

As far as just "one" anti-depressant, I've tried so many different combinations of two with no improvement in that area. If I lived in Europe, where SAMe is actually a prescription antidepressant (it's a dietary supplement here), it'd be a lot of different combinations of 3. And blah. The only direction I can really go in here is MAOIs now, which don't really lend themselves to combinations anyways.

The MAOI route seems valid, nardil and parnate both seem to work extremely well on both mood and social anxiety, they also don't react with clonazepam, zopiclone or temazepam as far as I'm aware, so shouldn't be a major problem, should you chose to go down that route.

[pete69]

Originally Posted by jim_morrison

The MAOI route seems valid, nardil and parnate both seem to work extremely well on both mood and social anxiety, they also don't react with clonazepam, zopiclone or temazepam as far as I'm aware, so shouldn't be a major problem, should you chose to go down that route.

yup i find nardil and klono a good combo,one of the best A/D ive tried.
have been on klonos alone for a few years but chuck in a powerful A/D like nardil and you can tackle most if not all sa fears...shame its the only way i can,do wish i was able to put cbt into action more and try stuff without.

[MissMay1977]

Update: Regular Benadryl wires me. Dye Free Benadryl sedates me. But this totally backfired! By midnight I was wired!!!!!!! So it only sedated me for a couple hours.

[crayzyMed]

Originally Posted by MissMay1977

Off some dye free Benadryl. This sh*t is better than canabis

Benadryl scares the hell out of me, i've had a really strange experience with it, but thats my own fault... Taking more when it doenst work is a bad thing i shall say.

[meyaj]

Originally Posted by MissMay1977

Update: Regular Benadryl wires me. Dye Free Benadryl sedates me. But this totally backfired! By midnight I was wired!!!!!!! So it only sedated me for a couple hours.

Sounds a bit like placebo, no?

[MissMay1977]

No I don't think it is a placebo. Benadry has sedative properties. Regular Benadryl, and any otc sleep medication wires me. I believe this is because I have bi polar. So for some reason the dye free Benadryl sedates me for a couple of hours.

[Dangerous]

Miss may, are you the same may that is on my myspace profile (jthedude)??

Anyways you are smoking the wrong canabis..lol

But, I have to admit bendadryl + opiate = bliss

[MissMay1977]

I don't think so. Check my pics and see if they match up.

[Vini Vidi Vici]

temazepam always seemed to work for only a realativly short period...if i took it at night at like 10, it was awesome, but when i woke up at like 7 or 8, the effects would be all gone. and id have rebound anxiety and a terrible hangover....but zopiclone seems to last for more than 12 hours...like if i take it at 10, i can still sleep past 10 the next day without much rebound anxiety. zopiclone has an active metabolite with a longer half life that is supposed to be a strongly anxyiolotic GABA agonist and NMDA antagonist. for me at least, zopiclone lasts alot longer and works a ton better than temazepam.

[jim_morrison]

Originally Posted by Vini Vidi Vici

temazepam always seemed to work for only a realativly short period...if i took it at night at like 10, it was awesome, but when i woke up at like 7 or 8, the effects would be all gone. and id have rebound anxiety and a terrible hangover....but zopiclone seems to last for more than 12 hours...like if i take it at 10, i can still sleep past 10 the next day without much rebound anxiety. zopiclone has an active metabolite with a longer half life that is supposed to be a strongly anxyiolotic GABA agonist and NMDA antagonist. for me at least, zopiclone lasts alot longer and works a ton better than temazepam.

I thought zopiclone wasn't available in america, or did you import it?

[meyaj]

Originally Posted by jim_morrison

I thought zopiclone wasn't available in america, or did you import it?

They've got eszopiclone which is pretty much the same thing.