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Giving up on long-term use of meds, and other psychoactives

5K views 48 replies 22 participants last post by  Opiman 
#1 ·
After 4 years of messing around with meds and drugs, one thing has become annoyingly apparent: what goes up must come down. This is common sense when dealing with "drugs", but meds are sometimes treated like they are permanent ways of altering your neurological function. It wasn't made clear to me when I was rx'd my first SSRI that it very likely might stop working in a few months/years, and leave me with the choice of escalating dose on a road to nowhere, or biting the bullet and going for a stay in hell for 2 weeks as withdrawal passes.

If I drink coffee regularly as a way of increasing motivation, eventually it does nothing more than bring me out of caffeine withdrawal in the morning and back to my normal personality. Benzos - at first a miracle cure for social phobia, later a requirement for not having a panic attack the whole day. SSRIs - at first made me feel rather "magical" and positive about life, now barely perceptible. It seems like the rule of tolerance applies to pretty much all drugs acting on the central nervous system, although its rate varies with drugs and people. Some people have meds work for years on end, but how much of that is the placebo effect, long-term neurological adaptations, or whatever remaining after the CNS has sensitised to the drug's direct effect?

That's without even mentioning side-effects, which are pretty severe with most stuff that works (and most stuff that doesn't).

The only thing that might change my mind on regular med use is if a LOT more information and success stories emerge regarding NMDA antagonists (or any effective drug really) for slowing tolerance. They didn't work very well for me, and made my moderate schizoid ways turn into a disorganised schizophrenia-like state of mind. And even if they worked for slowing tolerance, that still leaves you having to take drug breaks to restore efficacy, and with them disruption to your life / addiction due to the intense highs and lows.

I'm ready to sumbit to my natural hedonic treadmill, seems there's no escaping it. No more meds, no more tobacco, no more coffee, and no more weed smokery, except for occasional psychoactive use just to tease myself with what the brain is capable of when blessed with happier / less anxious genes (or completely insane genes, in the case of psychedelic drug use, lol).
 
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#2 ·
Well, in the first place... Benzos aren't meant for long-term use. And theres no good evidence for any good quality subjective state while on SSRIS. None of this should come as that much of a surprise to you.

If its the case that you're anhedonic and/or suicidal without meds, it would be hard for me to imagine the withdrawal from something other than Benzos making the drug experience not worth it.

Plus, "what comes up must come down", is just a stupid saying". A pessimistic, self-defeating ideology. Don't you think that peoples lives can be changed for the better to a point where its worth it?
 
#3 ·
I agree, seems like all the people that "played" a lot with medications, give up in the end (as also rocknroll did) and I'm thinking to do the same. My actually way to use is a PRN use, amph for hard session of study, benzos for general anxiety, but I'm aware that nothing is "therapeutic" I use medication as tools to cope better with different situations. I accept my self for what I'm, and that's all for me. Even if my interest for psychopharmacology will be for life.
 
#4 ·
I'm ready to sumbit to my natural hedonic treadmill, seems there's no escaping it. No more meds, no more tobacco, no more coffee, and no more weed smokery, except for occasional psychoactive use just to tease myself with what the brain is capable of when blessed with happier / less anxious genes (or completely insane genes, in the case of psychedelic drug use, lol).
Very insightful Euphoria.
I find myself at the very start of this process, but i cant stop my mind from wandering to where your's is now. Ive done alot of reading and viewing of what seems to work for others..... for a short time, only to turn to crap after a month or more. Its a very difficult thing to commit to im finding, but i think its peice of mind for me to be able to say 'oh, its just a problem that others experience too. And there's pills for that'.

It appears to be a tough juggle. Goodluck with where you more onto from here. Find something that sparks some happiness and use it sparingly. (anhedonia is something you cant explain, and just plain horrible)
 
#5 ·
Most experienced or intelligent drug users eventually reach this point. I takes longer for some than others. I also think this is why drug use it lower as age goes up proportionately.


YOU CANT BEAT HOMEOSTATIS. Things like memantine slow an inevitable process. Psychotropics are best PRN and occasionally used.

Its good to see another intelligent poster go the way of me and rocknroll.

Now lets see how long it takes crazymed to come around lol, ive alrdy taken him along way.
 
#8 ·
Most experienced or intelligent drug users eventually reach this point. I takes longer for some than others. I also think this is why drug use it lower as age goes up proportionately.

YOU CANT BEAT HOMEOSTATIS. Things like memantine slow an inevitable process. Psychotropics are best PRN and occasionally used.

Its good to see another intelligent poster go the way of me and rocknroll.

Now lets see how long it takes crazymed to come around lol, ive alrdy taken him along way.
But crayzymed discovered the magic of breaks, togheter with memantine, tolerance byebye working succesfully for ages.

Homeostatis is easy to beat, however meds are just a part of the problem, it takes a ****ton of exposure and a bunch of other ****, getting high at home is all nice and dandy but no sa treatment.
 
#6 ·
Deep but discouraging. But Euphoria, don't you think that it is your current 'down' state of mind that is behind the rant? Personally I believe in life on meds during 'ups' and think about quitting then I'm 'down'. Our way of thinking is not objective, it is affected by precarious emotional states.
Anyway, I wish you all the best.
 
#7 ·
My rule of thumb is going to be; take meds for when nothing else can help. But dont end up like Ozzy Osborne. lol
 
#11 ·
o_O mass exodus!

Will anyone be left to talk about meds with? :)
Im looking at you Bacon/Arisa/Racoon :boogie
 
#13 ·
>_<

haha i can only imagine how this cycle feeds itself. My 1st psych appointment is coming up.

Currently have bad headaches, NO concetration and a whole bag of Anhedonia.
Wonder what hes going to suggest?

If i find something that will work for these constant and frustrating problems, i feel it will be impossible to part me from the meds. Its been a whole year now of pretty much those 3 symptoms. Fingers crossed....
 
#14 ·
Even though meds are out of the picture, I'm going to have my first psychedelic experience in a week or so, seems worth a try for someone who feels a lack of meaning in life. But it will be a special combination to make sure the trip isn't, like, evil.
 
#38 ·
Haha nice. Just dont go there too frequently or in high dosage.
My carpet in my bathroom still shimmers and waves if i focus on my peripheral vision a whole lot. Same for other really complex and detailed patterns. I think its a very very mild form of Hallucinogen persisting perception disorder (HPPD). Not overly bothersom and hardly notice it
 
#18 ·
I was so happy to see this thread. :)

your last post is saddening, but at least you made the thread in the first place.
I stumbled into this section of the forum just by chance. I read a thread or two about stacking that made me want to vomit and I was about to leave until I saw your thread.

I'm not sure exactly what to say but I first want you to know that there is plenty of hope for you to overcome medication. Secondly, I don't think it's a secret that mainstream medicine is invested in the unhealthiness (and therefore perhaps unhappiness too) of everyone.

BostonB great post :hs (I realize the use of smilies may discredit my competence level but that is a risk I am willing to take)

I was diagnosed with depression, anxiety and ocd at age 14. put on paxil. gained 40 pounds. got myself off of that, went on 3 other ones through about a course of a decade. I wanted to drink and party so I'd wean myself off whatever I was on but then as many of you, soon found out I wasn't fit for human consumption without it. I played this stupid game til I was 23 or 24. I never had a prescription but toyed with aderall and ativan.. also snorted who knows what in the world more than once and blah blah blah..

I never had a roster of 8 drugs I was on (unless I snorted that many of the "magic Billy pills" in a night) but I never wanted to be and knew people who were and they were freakin crazy.. so pardon me for not being that experienced, but as I said, I would try to get off and found out I "needed" to stay on the drugs just like many of you.. but I was still hopeless while on that crap and it added whatever nasty side effects that it does. I was still anxious. still going crazy, maybe more crazy.. still full of despair.. or maybe full of what seemed like nothing at all.. or maybe a bunch of fuzziness. whatever, it was not good. when I'd wean myself off it wasn't just for partying, it was cuz I didn't want to be on that stuff cuz though I was young and naive, I guess I knew better all along.

My story may not grant the same results to everyone. Everyone needs to take/make their own path and find out there's one worth taking. but anyways, what happened was, I got off the pills (which was zoloft at the end, my favorite I guess, and I had some ativan) almost immediately before moving to Florida to live with a friend. (the next paragraph isn't necessary to read)

I was living with my mom for almost my whole life (except for a month or two when I was kicked out) and I was moving from Wisconsin to Florida with just one friend for support.. a friend who didn't really understand my condition. well lol we did a bunch of coke the night before we left for our drive soo0o00oo it made me worse of course. water tasted different, no matter what state we were in, for months after that.. I haven't done coke since. anyways lol so we get to Florida and all I have is a couple ativan, which was never my cup of tea anyways.. long story short, cuz this actually doesn't really have much to do with my story lol so I shouldn't have brought it up, we drank often and I didn't want to keep up that lifestyle cuz I knew it wasn't good for me and made me feel worse in the long run and we had fights and blah blah I ended up moving back home to Wisconsin after 3 months.

Despite the comfort of home, I wanted to skedaddle back to medications. but luckily it didn't work out that way. after working at this restaurant (of the chain I worked at in Florida) for a month, I was fired and applied at the health store place the Vitamin Shoppe which was next door and where I frequently went to buy energy drinks and not much else. I applied and got the job. I think the first thing that I got privy to was this homeopathic remedy called Calms Forte. it doesn't work for me anymore so I can barely even explain what it's like, but I know that it helped me a great deal. another thing I started using and still do is bach flower therapy. I am pretty sure they helped me a lot (I ended up getting 5 different ones total) but as life takes its course, it's harder to try and detail intangible things like that.. well I mean I think if you were monitoring the reality it'd be clear as day that they did help me, but now that I've discovered new realities I am not so sure. alas it's hardly my point.
I tried multiple other things such as passion flower and valerian root and l-theanine and so on. no miracle for me.
I eventually wound up on a multi-vitamin, a b-complex, a calcium/magnesium and well that's all I take almost all the time. other important items that I took on a regular basis for at least a while and take most days now are fish oil, probiotics and protein shakes. I think clean protein, or amino acids in pill-form are really important. I didn't include the protein in the first list tho I do take it every day and usually more than once because I couldn't really afford to buy it a couple months ago so I didn't take it for like a month. it's especially important if your diet is unbalanced and poor in protein..

So... I've now been off of prescriptions for over two years. I also managed to quit smoking cigarettes after that, which is another thing I did for over a decade. and while I was working at the Vitamin Shoppe I also learned I could quit caffeine which was great. ah, well I must be getting to bed.. I just want it to be known that getting off of medications can be easier than you think. I'm much better off even in my lowest points off than I ever was "on". I've done other things of course like read books and wrote and engaged in hobbies and exercise, etc.. to get to the point I am at. but I started just like you.. only at 20 I was already 6 years in and had a few more to go on my sentence of prescriptions.. Now the medications are getting even worse.. get out asap............. =/
I also think that eft can be wonderful and I wish I would have known about it years ago
 
#20 ·
Arisa, and everyone else, you have to realize that you are not tainted nor doomed. that you can live beautifully and content as you, no pills needed. You have to keep searching for the strength and true beauty of yourself and life and you can be cleansed and live pure and happily without so many worries and restrictions. I promise that each and every one of you can ♥ and it's easier than you'd think. You're gorgeous people with plenty of potential and honest souls that want to breathe and if you're realistic you can obtain the truth before the year's up. You have to love yourself and nurture yourself more and eventually all that's around you. like they said in grade school (at least mine lol) Knowledge Is Power. there's a much better way *hugs*
 
#21 ·
makes me sad that its so difficult to escape the destiny of crappy genes.

6 years of a lot of exposure therapy hasn't really improved me, the only great thing I have is because I was never really told I had intense social anxiety disorder, when people told me I was really nervous I didn't even believe it. So even today I'm really okay with my social anxiety to the point, I was oblivious to it, then when I learned about it it just made me go "oh now it makes sense why my life has been like this"

Its not as easy as it sounds being not reliant on meds, people are going to take advantage of you being a nervous wreck that is a fact, especially if you are a guy. Seriously its much more okay for a girl to be nervous really, and its so hard to enjoy yourself with normal outings when you are wracked with anxiety. Its not impossible, but you'll spend most nights not remembering most of your social attempts because you were so fight or flight.

Lets face it SAD isn't going to kill you, but it makes normal life ****ing miserable.

My life has pretty much taken a 180 degree flip since being on medication. I just accept its never going to solve the problem or make me super confident it gives me that little push that makes all the difference. I try my best to limit my use of meds, its hard but abusing meds is a surefire way to tolerance. So far so good.

I must admit that its hard so very hard to believe my life would have changed via natural means, almost every thing that is necessary in life requires social interaction of some sort. Again I think its harder being a guy, because you can't expect girls to chase after you.

I am only starting to understand how complex social interactions really are, and my conclusion is anxiety may be a show stopper, but intelligence is where the game is at. The people I see now who are successful in my circle are the smartest ones, being anxietyless is hardly special really, and that is why I am looking at how to improve my cognitive ability more than completely removing anxiety nowadays.

I dreamed of a super successful social life/confidence years ago, which I now believe will never materialize, because I was never meant to be that kind of person, nor am I smart either. No meds can ever turn someone who is socially off completely normal. I don't like being different/weird, but I don't really hate it either. It just doesn't bother me as much these days. (been through too much?)

All I want now is just a normal functioning life, which I am glad to have for now, few good friends, work, video games, hang out every now, hell and then, as for meds I plan to partake probably a lifelong interest in them as an aide to just trying to be normal which feels ****ing great by the way this beats me a few years back forcing myself to house parties filled with anxiety a hundred times over.

So TL DR: Sad meds don't last, but being normal feels ****ing great.
 
#22 ·
makes me sad that its so difficult to escape the destiny of crappy genes.
But it isnt :)

I dont wonna sound like a smartarse, but many regime's are just really crappy in my eyes, and those that gave up, usually only tried what in my eyes are really crappy meds, things ive never bothered with even from the start.
 
#26 ·
unfortunately I can never get hold of amphetamine which is initially anyways the core of your entire stack, I would be more interested in using amphetamine and preventing tolerance (trying memantine) on that versus gbl anyways.

Also I have zero clue how you manage to afford all those meds, least have the patience or time to experiment with them. I suppose a lot of your meds are research chemicals and what if you find something then the supplier runs out or it gets banned.
 
#23 ·
Well I decided actually to go on Nardil, for a while. I need to get used to living without drugs, and stick with it, but being in a massive depressive/addictive rut, I don't seem to be able to pull it off. What I said before stands - I don't think drugs are much of a long term solution. So I'll either taper off after my life's back, or just stay on it indefinitely after tolerance happens to avoid withdrawals (but without increasing dose or looking for another drug).

This plan courtesy of the 5-HT2A receptor and its infinite wisdom.
 
#24 ·
Good luck, it's a smart move.
 
#25 ·
I'll be on meds for life. I am not on a single medication that I MYSELF didn't choose to be on in the first place. For any problems relating to drugs, I only have myself to blame that way.

I have now, tremors in my hands, caused by Zyprexa, which most likely will be life long, but I'll have to see. I'm on my way off of 6 years of antipsychotics. I still, given the choice back then, would choose to take them. Zyprexa has helped me fight anorexia and see what a normal body weight life is like. I feel like I am so much more healthier than before. I went from 4% body fat @ 108 lbs 5'11" to 158 lbs at the same height :)

As for my anti-depressants... I am still alive. As for my Adderall, my grade average went up 33 percentage points since highschool. I've also come a long way in making progress with my SA and social skills/life that I wouldn;t have made without meds.

My pain meds leave much to be desired and I have yet to find an exact solution for them and my pain. The rest of my meds have most likely helped in surviving the hell that is my life, making me able to cope with it better.

Overall I think meds are here to stay until my health problems are cured or overcome. I only wish I had sought help sooner than I did.
 
#27 ·
it is only possible to change crappy genes for a set amount of time..you will always revert right back to who you are after the drugs wear off..or in most cases an even more irritable/anhedonic version of yourself as most effective drugs have bad comedowns/crashes..of course you could always remedy the comedown with another drug but then you will deal with the side effects of that drug and the war continues..

drugs will never be a long term solution, no matter the drugs or combination...no drug will produce lifelong effects after you have stopped taking them but the problem is, the drugs work very well for a few hours..i have experimented with many drug combos, stim/benzo, stim/ghb, ghb/benzo, opiate/everything, phenibut/ghb phenibut/stim and i have yet to come up with a workable formula that really fits well to my life...every one of these combos has side effects i do not like but ill admit, some of these combos above work miracles when i take them...they turn me into a different person but that in itself lends to another problem...the jekyll and hyde scenario, when i talk to a person one day under the influence of combo and another day i avoid that same person or act very differently when sober...its impossible at least for me to take these combos day after day, 24/7 so it almost causes a split within myself..it gets to the point where i dont even know what i want..

as for saying everyone can live life without pills, thats a very dangerous thing to say as it isnt true..many people would be dead without prescription drugs so they have their place...

also i have found it almost impossible to cure or even put a dent in anhedonia without drugs..of course the drugs i take to combat my anhedonia in turn make me more apathetic so its a give and take affair..again, a rat race to find a workable combo that improves my life more than it hurts it, if that combo even exists...im not sure..

im not giving up drugs though....right now they are what works..
 
#32 ·
as for saying everyone can live life without pills, thats a very dangerous thing to say as it isnt true..many people would be dead without prescription drugs so they have their place...
I didn't mean to say that, for short/intermediate term use anyway.

nice, an maoi seems the rational choice at this stage. I guess you felt the anti-anxiety effects of nardil were worth it over the more stimulating properties of parnate? i don't know how marplan stacks up to the big two.
That's what I'm thinking atm. I know Nardil works well for me, as I've had it before, so no reason chancing it with Parnate to which I may not be suited. Plus I have such generalised SA that I need all the anti anxiety I can get. Nardil was one of the only meds that's ever given me a powerful anhedonia and anxiety relief together, without making me stupid (GHB) or lazy (opioids). Stimulants only relieve my anhedonia, making anxiety worse overall.
 
#30 ·
Marplan is considered to be a weaker version of nardil, but basicly its just like nardil wich works for ppl that didnt respond well to nardil.
 
#33 ·
I think is a temporary thing for euphoria and he is going to come back to the lab rat game.

doesn't phenibut give you a hangover? I don't imagine it would work as well as say low dose gbl, workable phenibut doses tend to be problematic . Besides benzos are much cleaner downers then gbl or phenibut imo. Something like clonazepam may be cool as you're covered both on the come up and the come down, its worked well for me. Though I personally don't take it anymore as I find it only useful to cushion a hard comedown and nothing else.

If memantine can prevent that much tolerance for you then the possibilities are pretty much endless.

Whats the closest research chemical to amphetamine in your experience? AMT not being an answer since that went really wrong for me.
 
#36 ·
cool hope it works out for you euphoria its definitely doable and takes guts.

Yeah amt just made me extremely nervous (I do not suffer from anhedonia) plus it gave me really weird visual distortions patterns of stuff moving like water on rock hard surfaces. This lasted for days after taking amt, but I have recovered completely. I may have got a bad patch but thats pretty much my experience in it. If it had any AMT in it it felt nothing like an amphetamine high. Note I don't respond to ritalin either so I am a weird case. I've also tried MDAI and few others things with little to no effect. Only mephedrone has had a strong amp like effect for me, but it was too dangerous a drug.
 
#42 ·
That's pretty much how it happens if you take anything over the anti-depressant level of dosage. I never went beyond 7.5mg in my experiments but I found it had a diry aspect to it at this dose. 5mg was quite nice but at this dose and above I noticed inappropiate grinning to things people were saying to me. I tried it at 2.5mg as well, but about day 6 into the treatment I didn't feel like myself at all so stopped.

I am currently taking agomelatine which is far from a cure for all but it works for me. If I gave it up for any reason I would try nardil as maybe a last stop saloon with meds. An effect of countering GAD and anhedonia sounds pretty similar to what ago currently does for me, which is pretty much what I'm after as well as helping my moderately high, fairly treatment resistant depression.
 
#41 ·
Might i add, I have also used bromo lsd (non hallucinogenic form) for the treatment of migraine/chronic headache. it seemed to work for a tiny bit. not sure how much was placebo etc.
 
#43 ·
I'm at the point where I'm almost believing I should finally give up on the meds. My doc started me on Mirtazapine and Cymbalta about 4 days ago. I am going to try this combo for the summer and see how it works. If it doesn't work then I think I might tell my doctor to just put me on one powerful sedating drug at night, then that's it. It's so frustrating bouncing from one drug to the next and each time hoping that it will be the drug that will finally work.
 
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