For MAOI users, what exactly does a hypertensive crises feel like?

[Escopeta]

I've researched it, but I could find minimal and somewhat vague descriptions like "Rise in Blood Pressure". I know of headaches, but I've also seen descriptions such as tremors. What exactly is a "bad reaction". I'm asking because I want to know what to look out for because I'm at a phase where I test the foods first before I consume them whole and I want to know the symptoms.

[SuperTodd]

You might get headaches with super high blood pressure or seizures, chest pain or swelling usually in your legs but there is usually not obvious signs of high blood pressure unless you measure it with a cuff.

[Vini Vidi Vici]

when i had a hypertensive crisis, it felt pretty much like my head was going to explode...everything felt super constricted..i had a panging pressure in my head, around my ears in in the front of my head and at the base of my neck. other than the obvious headache...i had some moderate anxiety increases. i was really anxious and worried that i was gonna die....some of the anxiety was caused by the blood pressure, but some was just psychosomatic. im not sure how to describe it, but i knew at the time (before i checked my blood pressure) that i was having a hypertensive crisis. i could pretty much feel every blood vessel super constricted in my body. my blood pressure ended up being 180...not super high but still dangerous.

[db0255]

High blood pressure is asymptomatic, but a hypertensive crisis has a few symptoms. I think the medication leaflet you get with it describes it, but it's usually:
high anxiety
strong headache starting in the back of your head and spreading forward
chest pain
neck aches

Usually you can also feel as though the blood vessels in your brain are pounding.

[IllusionalFate]

I can tell I'm having a hypertensive crisis when my heartbeats become significantly more forceful. Not a faster pulse (I actually think mine dropped a bit the couple times I've experienced them), but you can feel the stress put on your heart muscle with each beat. Frequent palpitations usually accompany it.

Sounds scary, but this really was only a concern for me when I stupidly mixed 50mg of PEA with Nardil. The worst that happened from consuming food was when my blood pressure shot up to around 170-180/95 mmHg from eating an overripe banana. Only took a few minutes to pass.

[Vini Vidi Vici]

Originally Posted by IllusionalFate

I can tell I'm having a hypertensive crisis when my heartbeats become significantly more forceful. Not a faster pulse (I actually think mine dropped a bit the couple times I've experienced them), but you can feel the stress put on your heart muscle with each beat. Frequent palpitations usually accompany it.

Sounds scary, but this really was only a concern for me when I stupidly mixed 50mg of PEA with Nardil. The worst that happened from consuming food was when my blood pressure shot up to around 170-180/95 mmHg from eating an overripe banana. Only took a few minutes to pass.

im glad you mentioned that cuz i eat a ton of bananas. so far, ive only eaten rather unripe ones....but now all our bananas are sorta old and brown and i was gonna eat one. ive been trying to find the right dose of banana lol to counteract the postural hypotension from Parnate. a dangerous practice, but i do have nifedipine if i eat to much banana. would polyhexedrine or L-methamphetamine be too dangerous to use...or what do you think a safe starting dose would be? im rather worried about experimenting with such. but the hypotension is making me very very weak, so much that i can hardly go running or cut wood or anything.

[Vini Vidi Vici]

i just had a milkshake with about 3 super ripe bananas in it, and i also ingested about 10mg of L-dopa....both of these things can cause a hypertensive crisis. I feel greatly elevated anxiety, slight euphoria, pain/headache mostly near the base of my neck...and a feeling of butterflies in my stomach, like im walking on air. This completely reminds me of my previous hypertensive crisis. I just took about 20 mg of nifedipine and might take some prazosin if needed. im not completely sure on the safety of prazosin used for hypertensive crisis...as it can remarkably elevated blood pressure initially, before lowering it. but it helped lower my blood pressure last time....well i definetly feel anxious, and i took my blood pressure and its only 150 so far. this isnt very fun...i wouldnt recommend getting a hypertensive crisis especially when you know what causes it and you eat/take that stuff anyway...

[Vini Vidi Vici]

as u can see i dont really think ahead very well.

[Escopeta]

That's odd, I've had bananas before both fresh and slightly over ripened and turned out just fine. I thought the banana peels were the only dangerous part.

[db0255]

Yeah, the peels are bad, not the actually bananas. Also, vinividivicci...perhaps inducing hypertensive episodes on tyramine to counteract postural hypotension is the not the best idea? I'm not sure if they even act on the same receptors so that if you had equal things of both, you'd have normal blood pressure....PH might be bad, but you can't get a stroke, man!!

[Vini Vidi Vici]

Originally Posted by db0255

Yeah, the peels are bad, not the actually bananas. Also, vinividivicci...perhaps inducing hypertensive episodes on tyramine to counteract postural hypotension is the not the best idea? I'm not sure if they even act on the same receptors so that if you had equal things of both, you'd have normal blood pressure....PH might be bad, but you can't get a stroke, man!!

i survived, but i completely agree. im not going to ingest any more tyramine or L-dopa. even when my blood pressure was high, i still felt tired and weak....so i think u must have a point, they dont work on all the same receptors. at least now i know. yeah i got really scared about having a stroke...so i took some xanax. i still have a headache. but im not sure what is causing it

[IllusionalFate]

Originally Posted by Vini Vidi Vici

im glad you mentioned that cuz i eat a ton of bananas. so far, ive only eaten rather unripe ones....but now all our bananas are sorta old and brown and i was gonna eat one. ive been trying to find the right dose of banana lol to counteract the postural hypotension from Parnate. a dangerous practice, but i do have nifedipine if i eat to much banana.

There's other MAO substrates in bananas and other foods that can be dangerous. Besides tyramine, I believe bananas contain 5-HTP which can induce serotonin syndrome, and there's also phenylalanine and PEA in other foodstuffs. Not a good idea.

...would polyhexedrine or L-methamphetamine be too dangerous to use...or what do you think a safe starting dose would be? im rather worried about experimenting with such. but the hypotension is making me very very weak, so much that i can hardly go running or cut wood or anything.

Not a good idea either. The vasopressor properties of those substances can vary, and if it did end up abolishing postural hypotension then it would likely raise BP too much when sitting. The only thing that seems practical to me is eating more sodium, and that is probably too unhealthy.

I also had horrible postural hypotension on Nardil. Whenever you stand up, lean forward so the blood rushes to your head, and then slowly start leaning back up, that helped me deal with it.

Originally Posted by Escopeta

That's odd, I've had bananas before both fresh and slightly over ripened and turned out just fine. I thought the banana peels were the only dangerous part.

The peels are the most dangerous, but the fruit contains the same amino acids/trace amines that the peel does just in weaker concentrations. Some people are more susceptible to tyramine-induced hypertensive responses, I may be one of them.

Originally Posted by db0255

Also, vinividivicci...perhaps inducing hypertensive episodes on tyramine to counteract postural hypotension is the not the best idea? I'm not sure if they even act on the same receptors so that if you had equal things of both, you'd have normal blood pressure....PH might be bad, but you can't get a stroke, man!!

I fully agree with this.

Originally Posted by Vini Vidi Vici

i still have a headache. but im not sure what is causing it

I had lower-back pain and a headache that lasted for a couple days after my PEA-induced hypertensive crisis, but it completely went away after that. My guess on what is causing it is reversible damage to arteries/veins (stress on smooth muscle due to hypertension?), but if you don't have any other alarming symptoms then I wouldn't worry about it. Be careful man, don't play around with MAOIs (particularly nonselective ones)! Suffering a stroke or myocardial infarction could mean spending the rest of your life as a vegetable.

[Vini Vidi Vici]

yeah thanks for all the advice....im not gonna experiment anymore (at least not with anything that could cause a hypertensive crisis or Serotonin syndrome). its not fun at all, like the wierd anxious/i might die any second or my brain might explode feeling.

i had that too! the wierd muscle aches and headache after i got a hypertensive crisis with PEA. i didnt even measure the PEA, i just ate a whole scoop ful with my selegiline, i think it was about 1 gram maybe. then i got super depressed when it wore off.

what do you think is the chance of getting Serotonin syndrome from eating Turkey (with tryptophan) ....im actually more worried about SS than hypertension, well they are both bad, but SS is actually really painful and distressing, and harder to treat...i don't eat any turkey now.

[Vini Vidi Vici]

i try to avoid too much sodium, because doesn't it somehow lead to more excitatory neurotransmission? or is that calcium...or are both of them capable of causing increased anxiety and increased glutamate release?

[IllusionalFate]

Originally Posted by Vini Vidi Vici

what do you think is the chance of getting Serotonin syndrome from eating Turkey (with tryptophan) ....im actually more worried about SS than hypertension, well they are both bad, but SS is actually really painful and distressing, and harder to treat...i don't eat any turkey now.

I ate turkey on Nardil and was fine. It isn't cured (at least I don't think they cure turkey) so it should be safe.

Originally Posted by Vini Vidi Vici

i try to avoid too much sodium, because doesn't it somehow lead to more excitatory neurotransmission? or is that calcium...or are both of them capable of causing increased anxiety and increased glutamate release?

I believe you're thinking of monosodium glutamate (MSG), which increases glutamate levels and may lead to excitotoxicity.

[jim_morrison]

Originally Posted by Vini Vidi Vici

what do you think is the chance of getting Serotonin syndrome from eating Turkey (with tryptophan) ....im actually more worried about SS than hypertension, well they are both bad, but SS is actually really painful and distressing, and harder to treat...i don't eat any turkey now.

L-tryptophan/MAOI interaction is discussed on this page;

http://www.psychotropical.com/3_st_speccon.shtml