Can anybody explain this?

[person3]

(I have posted this under medication as my post is about the effects of alcohol on the body. Hope that's okay.)

Please could somebody explain this to me. It's driving me mad!

I dislike being drunk - my anxiety does not seem to diminish and I flush a lot more than usual. As a result I rarely drink. When I do, I tend to binge drink. Leading to;

A hangover

As I understand it, people hate hangovers. Their anxiety goes through the roof and they often suffer mild depression.
For me however it is a different story - I love them! For an entire day I feel normal! The anxiety disappears! I become eloquent, when normally I struggle to find words. I feel boundless confidence! I can make eye contact! I can speak to strangers! I still blush, sweat & flush but suddenly these things feel like minor annoyances. Life feels good. If it wasn't for the fact that the alcohol would very quickly destroy my health I would try and induce this state every single day.

Can anybody explain this? I would be incredibly grateful.

[db0255]

Originally Posted by person3

(I have posted this under medication as my post is about the effects of alcohol on the body. Hope that's okay.)

Please could somebody explain this to me. It's driving me mad!

I dislike being drunk - my anxiety does not seem to diminish and I flush a lot more than usual. As a result I rarely drink. When I do, I tend to binge drink. Leading to;

A hangover

As I understand it, people hate hangovers. Their anxiety goes through the roof and they often suffer mild depression.
For me however it is a different story - I love them! For an entire day I feel normal! The anxiety disappears! I become eloquent, when normally I struggle to find words. I feel boundless confidence! I can make eye contact! I can speak to strangers! I still blush, sweat & flush but suddenly these things feel like minor annoyances. Life feels good. If it wasn't for the fact that the alcohol would very quickly destroy my health I would try and induce this state every single day.

Can anybody explain this? I would be incredibly grateful.

I've noticed this when I combine Remeron/Prozac and alcohol. I wouldn't sleep all day the next day, wouldn't have anxiety, wouldn't be depressed. I would just be normal. What other drugs are you taking, because it's most likely that affecting the alcohol....

[tutliputli]

Originally Posted by person3

(I have posted this under medication as my post is about the effects of alcohol on the body. Hope that's okay.)

Please could somebody explain this to me. It's driving me mad!

I dislike being drunk - my anxiety does not seem to diminish and I flush a lot more than usual. As a result I rarely drink. When I do, I tend to binge drink. Leading to;

A hangover

As I understand it, people hate hangovers. Their anxiety goes through the roof and they often suffer mild depression.
For me however it is a different story - I love them! For an entire day I feel normal! The anxiety disappears! I become eloquent, when normally I struggle to find words. I feel boundless confidence! I can make eye contact! I can speak to strangers! I still blush, sweat & flush but suddenly these things feel like minor annoyances. Life feels good. If it wasn't for the fact that the alcohol would very quickly destroy my health I would try and induce this state every single day.

Can anybody explain this? I would be incredibly grateful.

The exact same thing happens to me, it's so weird! My boyfriend always remarks on how impressive it is that I'm so cheerful, even when I'm horribly hungover. I feel so much more relaxed and care-free. It makes going to work a million times easier. I don't know why this should be, though.

[crayzyMed]

Originally Posted by person3

(I have posted this under medication as my post is about the effects of alcohol on the body. Hope that's okay.)

Please could somebody explain this to me. It's driving me mad!

I dislike being drunk - my anxiety does not seem to diminish and I flush a lot more than usual. As a result I rarely drink. When I do, I tend to binge drink. Leading to;

A hangover

As I understand it, people hate hangovers. Their anxiety goes through the roof and they often suffer mild depression.
For me however it is a different story - I love them! For an entire day I feel normal! The anxiety disappears! I become eloquent, when normally I struggle to find words. I feel boundless confidence! I can make eye contact! I can speak to strangers! I still blush, sweat & flush but suddenly these things feel like minor annoyances. Life feels good. If it wasn't for the fact that the alcohol would very quickly destroy my health I would try and induce this state every single day.

Can anybody explain this? I would be incredibly grateful.

Alcohol doesnt work for my anxiety either but i've never got such response when having a hangover. Its a bit difficould to find the neurological problem this way tough, the thing that comes to mind is the opposite effect on gaba receptors.

[jim_morrison]

Alcohol works better for my anxiety than Klonopin, oddly enough.

[crayzyMed]

Originally Posted by jim_morrison

Alcohol works better for my anxiety than Klonopin, oddly enough.

Both dont work for me

[jim_morrison]

for me 1 mg of klonopin feels like it has about the anti anxiety equivilent of 1 beer max. I guess alcohol also releases endorphins though, that could be part of the magic.

[crayzyMed]

Originally Posted by jim_morrison

for me 1 mg of klonopin feels like it has about the anti anxiety equivilent of 1 beer max. I guess alcohol also releases endorphins though, that could be part of the magic.

I only respong to uppers, paradoxally those make anxiety whorse for others, i never can stop being amazed how 1 thing works wonders for someone and doesnt do anything for someone else.

[jim_morrison]

Originally Posted by crayzyMed

I only respong to uppers, paradoxally those make anxiety whorse for others, i never can stop being amazed how 1 thing works wonders for someone and doesnt do anything for someone else.

I've never tried uppers, but even SSRI's usually have me bouncing off the walls. I'm always suprised when anyone says they find them sedating.

[person3]

Thank you for your replies. Everybody seems so helpful on this forum!

db0255 - I am not taking any other drugs at the moment. Rest assured though I'm no dabbler in social anxiety - it's well on the way to sabotaging my life!

tutliputli - another person at last! I know what you mean about the work thing! The whole thing is so strange isn't it? Every doctor I have ever mentioned it to has implied that it is some kind of placebo effect. Nobody who experienced it could describe it that way though - the change is so dramatic! My friends and family notice it almost instantly. I am desperately trying to discover the explanation behind the change, why does a drug that usually increases anxiety in the hangover stage have the opposite effect on us? I feel like if we could work it out it would be an enormous clue as to the cause of the anxiety (some kind of imbalance?, the overproduction of a certain chemical?).

crazyMed - Thanks for the input. Could you explain what you mean by the opposite effect on gaba receptors? Does the hangover blunt them?


If anybody has any knowledge of the physiological effects of a hangover that would be very helpful.

[meyaj]

It may not necessarily be really the hangover. Getting really drunk results in a night of poor sleep and improper timing of the sleep stages.

But sleep deprivation is known to be a powerful short-term antidepressant. Suppression of REM sleep can have similar effects. From personal experience I know that missing a night of sleep tends to make me more social and hyperactive to the point of almost mania, although it's clearly not a good long-term solution if you want to remain functional.

[crayzyMed]

Originally Posted by Freesix88

(Hypo)Mania for the win!

Hangovers just make feel very bad. Alcohol is magic potion for SA but on the long term it messes things up. The anxiety and depression after a heavy bing drink is a not so pleasant effect.

Be happy you can just drink alcohol to be free of anxiety once a week, i need to take XTC to achieve that, altough it leaves me free of anxiety 12 hours after it stops working.

person3
Theres no-one that can explain it, i would suggest to experiment with benzo's.

[ippa]

i think i know what u are talking about, i think on hangover your mind is so f///ed up that u feel lazy to think about what other people think about you and think less what are u talking to people. for example if you break your arm and feel alot of pain everything in the world would become less important then the pain you feel right now, this is somewhat similar example.

[jim_morrison]

Originally Posted by meyaj

But sleep deprivation is known to be a powerful short-term antidepressant. Suppression of REM sleep can have similar effects. From personal experience I know that missing a night of sleep tends to make me more social and hyperactive to the point of almost mania, although it's clearly not a good long-term solution if you want to remain functional.

Is that really the case? because when my insomnia was at its worst I was sleeping on average about 3-4 hours a night, if at all, for about 6 months, going to work during the day, and I didn't get any antidepressant effect/social from it.

[meyaj]

Originally Posted by jim_morrison

Is that really the case? because when my insomnia was at its worst I was sleeping on average about 3-4 hours a night, if at all, for about 6 months, going to work during the day, and I didn't get any antidepressant effect/social from it.

Yes, and the reason for it scientists generally believe is an increase in brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF.) It's even suggested by some that the insomnia associated with depression is an attempt by the brain to achieve this, and that part of the beneficial effects from anti-depressants are seen from their tendency to heavily suppress REM sleep

. Who knows whether or not it helped in your particular case - you might have been even worse if you were oversleeping. And some people (including me, according to a sleep study) are really heavy REM sleepers, and 3-4 hours a night might not be enough deprivation to see the benefits. Unless I'm mistaken, after a prolonged period of time going with consistently less sleep, your brain also adjusts to fit more REM sleep into it.

But the results from studies on the subject are pretty dramatic... the only problem is that the anti-depressant effect doesn't last very long.

[jim_morrison]

Originally Posted by meyaj

. Who knows whether or not it helped in your particular case - you might have been even worse if you were oversleeping. And some people (including me, according to a sleep study) are really heavy REM sleepers, and 3-4 hours a night might not be enough deprivation to see the benefits. Unless I'm mistaken, after a prolonged period of time going with consistently less sleep, your brain also adjusts to fit more REM sleep into it.

I'd like to have a sleep study done actually, because I've always had the most bizarre and erratic dreams. I think something odd is definetly going on.

Btw didn't you say that you have mild sleep apnea? Myabe thats why your brains trying to fit in more REM sleep to compensate.

[meyaj]

Originally Posted by jim_morrison

Btw didn't you say that you have mild sleep apnea? Myabe thats why your brains trying to fit in more REM sleep to compensate.

I did say that, but I'm not really sure if the two are (or can be) linked. My neurologist didn't really connect the two at all. But yeah, I used to have way too many intense and vivid dreams every single night, and lots of awakenings.

Antidepressants + zopiclone (or temazepam, when I was using that) have made my sleep quality a lot better, and I've never felt more refreshed in the morning, although lay-people usually tell me I'm supposed to feel groggy, which personally I find is only the case with sleep aids that get a lot of their effect from antihistamine action (eg benadryl, seroquel, zyprexa, remeron). It's the only real positive change I've seen from the drugs so far... I've actually had to double my dose of zopiclone lately as I'm tapering off the nortriptyline because the vivid dreams and awakenings were becoming routine again and I was waking up feeling awful.

[jim_morrison]

Originally Posted by meyaj

I did say that, but I'm not really sure if the two are (or can be) linked. My neurologist didn't really connect the two at all. But yeah, I used to have way too many intense and vivid dreams every single night, and lots of awakenings.

As far as I'm aware sleep apnea would result in more night time awakenings (although you may not be aware) and therefore keep you from entering the REM stage of sleep as often.

[jim_morrison]

Originally Posted by meyaj

Antidepressants + zopiclone (or temazepam, when I was using that) have made my sleep quality a lot better, and I've never felt more refreshed in the morning. It's the only real positive change I've seen from the drugs so far... I've actually had to double my dose of zopiclone lately as I'm tapering off the nortriptyline because the vivid dreams and awakenings were becoming routine again and I was waking up feeling awful.

Which antidepressant are you referring too that makes you sleep better, the nortriptyline? or the ones that you were on in the past?

[meyaj]

Originally Posted by jim_morrison

Which antidepressant are you referring too that makes you sleep better, the nortriptyline? or the ones that you were on in the past?

The SSRIs helped my overall sleep quality and stopped the constant dreaming, but I still needed more zopiclone to FALL asleep. I found that with the nortriptyline, I was able to use only half as much zopiclone to fall asleep.

I've had to double up again though as I taper though not because of trouble with sleep onset but because all the dreaming and awakening was coming back. Just the dreaming alone is actually really exhausting...