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Old 06-22-2007, 05:56 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Default why are we misunderstood??

I just dont get it!!

Why are we so misunderstood?

I think we get a lot of anxiety and problems because ppl say we dont talk a lot, they expect it from us, and then we feel the pressure that we have to talk. it sucks.

they look at us like we have some sort of a problem! do we? really? is this really that bad and looked down upon?

why dont the talkative outgoing people not have a clue about this term introverts. its like they think we are all sick or something. something is wrong with us, meanwhile they are really just misinformed and uneducated on the different personality styles.

its like we are not respected...why?

i always get comments like "i dont know whats going on in that head of yours"...

and someone close to me who claims to be 'shy' but i see her just fine in life and in public settings and with ppl, said to me that quiet ppl are looked down upon because most of the psychos that we hear about on tv had problems with themselves and they always appeared quiet, reserved and lonely and then they do something horrible like that guy from virginia tech....like these quiet ppl keep things bottled up and then one day BOOM.

people dont know what we are thinking and i think that really disturbes them that they dont know whats going on in our heads...like we have a scheme going on, a plan to do something unexpected. ugg...

any comments??
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Old 06-22-2007, 06:08 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Default re: why are we misunderstood??

because its been a problem in my workplace. i cant go on like this. its affecting me.
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Old 06-24-2007, 01:54 AM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Default re: why are we misunderstood??

Yeah I don't get why being quiet is bad, yet being loud and obnoxious is perfectly OK. Just one of society's many stupid rules. An old co-worker told me I don't fit the type of person who listens to heavy metal, cause I don't fit the "stereotype", and even asked if I worship the devil

I've had numerous comments made to me that people should be careful of us, that we are evil and will never mount to anything. Pity people belive all the bulls**t they read in papers and on TV.
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Old 06-24-2007, 02:15 AM   #4 (permalink)
 
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People don't mind quite and introversion. Alot of introverts are best friends with extroverts.

People, (the norm) just dont like anxiety. Or awkwardness. Or when someone wants to say something but seems to shy to say it. People liek congruency. Anxious people suck at congruency. It creeps people out and flashes images of psychos in their heads going postal.

Sometimes the person might have a reason for chastising against an anxious indvidual. Maybe he was once like it, and it cringes him to look in the way of someone who reminds him of his closet pass. Or sometimes people are just bullies. Sometimes someone just wants to know you better and the otehr person not being able to reciprocrate frustrates the extrovert's efforts and he doesn't know what the hell to do anymore.
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Old 06-24-2007, 06:00 AM   #5 (permalink)
 
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Default re: why are we misunderstood??

I don't think we are misunderstood. I think we're fearful.

Conversing with people can be a delight - fresh unexpected ideas coming out of a human with varied experiences and points of view. Social interaction is not fun for me only because of great amounts of anxiety and thoughts fuelled by and fuelling that fear.

Let's not pretend - those of us here on the social anxiety board - that it's just our personality. It is fear that is stopping us enjoying free conversation. It's not just 'the way we are'.

Most people seem to have some tiny level of fear in social interaction but for us it is clearly far worse. I try to keep in mind that all of my resentment of extroverted people and social interaction is likely to be a defensive mechanism caused by how much fear I have around it.
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Old 06-24-2007, 06:07 AM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: re: why are we misunderstood??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Recluser
I don't think we are misunderstood. I think we're fearful.

Conversing with people can be a delight - fresh unexpected ideas coming out of a human with varied experiences and points of view. Social interaction is not fun for me only because of great amounts of anxiety and thoughts fuelled by and fuelling that fear.
And maybe the fear makes us give meanings to other people's behaviour in ways it was probably never intended ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Recluser
Let's not pretend - those of us here on the social anxiety board - that it's just our personality. It is fear that is stopping us enjoying free conversation. It's not just 'the way we are'.

Most people seem to have some tiny level of fear in social interaction but for us it is clearly far worse. I try to keep in mind that all of my resentment of extroverted people and social interaction is likely to be a defensive mechanism caused by how much fear I have around it.
Honest, insightful and well written. I do remember before I did any therapy or meds I would never have agreed with this. In my view, I was like I was because everyone else treated me badly and the world made me feel bad. But then I realised the world wasnt going to change - and maybe it didnt need to. I learned that my emotions made me see the world in a way it wasnt necessarily. But thats impossible to truly describe to someone who still FEELS that way - you have to see it for yourself - which it seems you have.

Couldnt agree more, on every detail - awesome Recluser!

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Old 06-24-2007, 06:52 AM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: why are we misunderstood??

Quote:
Originally Posted by down123
its like we are not respected...why?
Because being shy is not a positive trait in this world. Can you have a really shy rock star that goes on stage in front of a packed arena? Can you have a really shy pro athelete that plays in front of a huge crowd and has millions watching him on TV? Do really shy guys get girls when they're too afraid to make a move? Do really shy people make the social connections needed to get ahead? Do really shy people say "Can I tak with your for a moment, boss" and ask for the raise they deserve?

Shyness simply doesn't get you the things you want. Being bold and assertive gets you places. Shyness gets you nowhere.
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Old 06-24-2007, 07:25 AM   #8 (permalink)
 
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Default re: why are we misunderstood??

I tend not to worry or care what others are thinking or saying about me. I'm not going to like or get along with everybody. I have made the connection that Ultrashy and Yeah_Yeah_talked about.
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Old 06-24-2007, 08:11 AM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Default re: why are we misunderstood??

We are misunderstood because people do not see the truth of things.

Everyone lives in their own subjective world, we can take ourself as an example. Some people see us as cool, some see us as a bore, some see us as beutiful, others see us as ugly, some see us as old, others see us as young. Completely dependent on the observing mind of the other person.

What does this mean?

It means that no one really sees 'you'. You also see yourself in a subjective way, some people say you are smart, you may disagree and so on.

People misunderstand us because they see a different person. For example there are many different Aron's that will be perceived by the minds of those who visit this forum. Whose version of Aron is the real truth? Some wont like what he says, others will love what he says.

If you can understand this, much of your anxiety towards what other people think about you will naturally in time fall away because you will realise thay dont really see you. They see only what you show them, then even that is obscured further by their own thinking. So it's not surprising that people are misunderstood.

Aron
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1. Anxiety is an ALARM SYSTEM that believes a threat is imminent.
2. Our body & mind freak out, a strong sense of self needs protection.
3. 'What others think' - is a key concept in our mind which can be deconstructed so that it doesn't seem so threatening to our self, hence we need less protection, hence less anxiety alarm.
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Old 06-24-2007, 12:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: re: why are we misunderstood??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aron James
We are misunderstood because people do not see the truth of things.

Everyone lives in their own subjective world, we can take ourself as an example. Some people see us as cool, some see us as a bore, some see us as beutiful, others see us as ugly, some see us as old, others see us as young. Completely dependent on the observing mind of the other person.

What does this mean?

It means that no one really sees 'you'. You also see yourself in a subjective way, some people say you are smart, you may disagree and so on.

People misunderstand us because they see a different person. For example there are many different Aron's that will be perceived by the minds of those who visit this forum. Whose version of Aron is the real truth? Some wont like what he says, others will love what he says.

If you can understand this, much of your anxiety towards what other people think about you will naturally in time fall away because you will realise thay dont really see you. They see only what you show them, then even that is obscured further by their own thinking. So it's not surprising that people are misunderstood.

Aron
I'm following you from post to post, I hope you don't mind that. I'm really connecting to everything you're saying.

My question is this. How do you survive in a world like this? On every level...personally, professionally. You have a deep understanding, but when its just you out there, how do you keep it up? Don't other people just erode you?

The reason I ask, is because i've been traveling within. Its opened my eyes to everything around me and i'm becoming more and more fluid...but where do I go now? I feel i'm on top of my own mountain here. I've joined a small Sangha but I can't live and breathe my entire life with just them.

What do you do for a living? Do your friends have a grasp on this? Modern society is so shallow, egotistical, surfacy, and it tires me out. I'm in the middle of a career change and need to find a way to get out there and stay solid in my beliefs and stay fluid. The reason why its easy now is because I have a job where I work alone. I don't know what jobs I could do that won't soak up my energy and leave me completely drained.

I've found myself and my passions but how on earth do I generate a living on this? Or do you "choose" a job thats not quite for you but somehow make it work so you can prosper financially and have some security? Which is it, follow passions or stick with convention? I want to survive, but I also want to be true to myself.

Sorry if this post doesn't make sense...but anyways, how do you function and work in this modern society with your beliefs??
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Old 06-24-2007, 12:28 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: why are we misunderstood??

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraShy
Quote:
Originally Posted by down123
its like we are not respected...why?
Because being shy is not a positive trait in this world. Can you have a really shy rock star that goes on stage in front of a packed arena? Can you have a really shy pro athelete that plays in front of a huge crowd and has millions watching him on TV? Do really shy guys get girls when they're too afraid to make a move? Do really shy people make the social connections needed to get ahead? Do really shy people say "Can I tak with your for a moment, boss" and ask for the raise they deserve?

Shyness simply doesn't get you the things you want. Being bold and assertive gets you places. Shyness gets you nowhere.
Ding ding ding We have a winner! What a great post by ultra. Hit the nail on the head.
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Old 06-24-2007, 12:47 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: re: why are we misunderstood??

Quote:
Originally Posted by embers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aron James
We are misunderstood because people do not see the truth of things.

Everyone lives in their own subjective world, we can take ourself as an example. Some people see us as cool, some see us as a bore, some see us as beutiful, others see us as ugly, some see us as old, others see us as young. Completely dependent on the observing mind of the other person.

What does this mean?

It means that no one really sees 'you'. You also see yourself in a subjective way, some people say you are smart, you may disagree and so on.

People misunderstand us because they see a different person. For example there are many different Aron's that will be perceived by the minds of those who visit this forum. Whose version of Aron is the real truth? Some wont like what he says, others will love what he says.

If you can understand this, much of your anxiety towards what other people think about you will naturally in time fall away because you will realise thay dont really see you. They see only what you show them, then even that is obscured further by their own thinking. So it's not surprising that people are misunderstood.

Aron
I'm following you from post to post, I hope you don't mind that. I'm really connecting to everything you're saying.

My question is this. How do you survive in a world like this? On every level...personally, professionally. You have a deep understanding, but when its just you out there, how do you keep it up? Don't other people just erode you?

The reason I ask, is because i've been traveling within. Its opened my eyes to everything around me and i'm becoming more and more fluid...but where do I go now? I feel i'm on top of my own mountain here. I've joined a small Sangha but I can't live and breathe my entire life with just them.

What do you do for a living? Do your friends have a grasp on this? Modern society is so shallow, egotistical, surfacy, and it tires me out. I'm in the middle of a career change and need to find a way to get out there and stay solid in my beliefs and stay fluid. The reason why its easy now is because I have a job where I work alone. I don't know what jobs I could do that won't soak up my energy and leave me completely drained.

I've found myself and my passions but how on earth do I generate a living on this? Or do you "choose" a job thats not quite for you but somehow make it work so you can prosper financially and have some security? Which is it, follow passions or stick with convention? I want to survive, but I also want to be true to myself.

Sorry if this post doesn't make sense...but anyways, how do you function and work in this modern society with your beliefs??
Just as a side note, this past year i've changed. Finding my true self, understanding the world around me and how everything relates, its made me more optimistic for my future and my dealings with people.

The people in my life don't fit anymore though. They want to bring me down and discourage me but i'm really feeling things that are so foreign to me having been negative and letting my mind control me. Now that I have the control I believe I can do much more.

I decided to share this with someone (my mother) and it was a discouraging conversation to say the least. She see's me differently than I see myself. She has no confidence in me whatsoever and wants to keep me in this little checkmarked box. I have to say its influenced me for the worst to some extent. Not as much as it used to. But I have doubts about myself and my abilitis bubbling up...

But blows like that from those who knew you formerly, who don't believe in you, I find are still holding me back to a degree. My SA is not a factor as long as I stay mindful. But people, esp who love me (go figure) are in my way!!! I'm out of my own way, but other's have taken the place of me...if that makes sense?
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Old 06-26-2007, 01:19 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
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Default re: why are we misunderstood??

Embers

How do you survive in the world with this understanding?

It's real simple. You keep this understanding as close as possible, close as in always remembering it, bringing it into your life as much as possible. I have many nicknames and many functions, such as father, friend and so on. These remind me that 'I' am not a fixed enitity and can be viewed on infinite levels with an infinite amount of minds observing 'me'.

You have become more fluid because you are lessening your grasp on who you 'think' you are and becoming more who you are, naturally. So your experience becomes more fluid like, more accepting.

Where do you go now?

I'll answer this with a question: Everyone experiences their own world. We all experience different worlds. Who created your world and where does it come from?

Living or joining a small Sangha community is very fortunate. They can function on many levels, these special friends can help you live more freely in the world, you dont need to give up anyone or anything else if you do not wish to. Your progress is at your pace. You can still function in world in exactly the same way, what is different however is your attitude towards it. A very famous saying is 'remain natural whilst you change your aspiration' meaning you dont need to shut yourself away or wear funny clothes or appear differently to others. What matters is that you change your mind and aspirations and cultivate positive intentions.

I work in an investment bank. What i say to you is that it doesn't really matter where you work to some degree, it's what you do with your mind that matters. I know many people who work in care and helping others, of course this is conducive to a meaningful life but if you understand your mind well, you will always be creating happiness wherever and whatever appears to your mind. Your real passion is for being free and living a happy life that others can also enjoy. You need to create this life. You create this by using whatever appears in your life in the most positive way.

how do you function and work in this modern society with your beliefs??

I function and work in this modern world the same as anyone else with the added goal of being happily engaged in training my mind using methods that work and whatever appears to create a better world for myself and others.

People will relate to the person they see 'in you'. This isn't you they see. Try not to feel discouraged when others dont see you as you see you. This will induce security because we are so used to believing that what others think of us is of paramount importance in obtaining happiness for ourself. This is called attachment. We project happiness onto people and what they think of us, from within our own mind, and so we are deceived by it all most all the time. Not many people understand this.

People you are closest to or who you respect, their opinions will matter more to you. You expect more from them. How you see them will determine your progress - They are great aids in helping you overcome the attachment to what other people think of you. They reflect much subtle mind sets you have been trapped into, like mirrors they illuminate the painful states of your mind. How kind they are.

Speak soon

Aron
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1. Anxiety is an ALARM SYSTEM that believes a threat is imminent.
2. Our body & mind freak out, a strong sense of self needs protection.
3. 'What others think' - is a key concept in our mind which can be deconstructed so that it doesn't seem so threatening to our self, hence we need less protection, hence less anxiety alarm.
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Old 06-26-2007, 03:56 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Default re: why are we misunderstood??

It's the same reason you see people without SA and already assume they don't understand you or are rude or whatever.

It's the same reason you see a loud obnoxious person and see them as rude, not intelligent, and arrogant.

People always make assumptions. The problem is if you hardly speak to anybody, the only assumption people can make is either you are not intelligent, a snob, rude, or too shy for own good.

Like I said, if you see a loud obnoxious person, you already made an assumption about them. So if somebody sees a shy quiet person who might look stressed out, what do you think they are going to assume?


It's really not about being shy, quite or even having SA. If you never talk or refuse to leave your house, the reality is, you become useless to society. Most jobs require you to work with others. To interact with others. If you can't do that, you'll probably never hold a job for long. As a guy, if you never walk up to a girl and talk to her, you probably aren't dating much.

The world isn't like the movies. The quiet guy in the corner isn't the one walking away with the money and the girl.

You need to talk to interact with the world.

If you think nobody understands you and is rude for thinking that because you never talk, then what does that make you when you assume somebody who is loud and obnoxious shouldn't be praised.
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Old 06-26-2007, 05:47 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: re: why are we misunderstood??

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjam376
It's the same reason you see people without SA and already assume they don't understand you or are rude or whatever.

It's the same reason you see a loud obnoxious person and see them as rude, not intelligent, and arrogant.

People always make assumptions. The problem is if you hardly speak to anybody, the only assumption people can make is either you are not intelligent, a snob, rude, or too shy for own good.

Like I said, if you see a loud obnoxious person, you already made an assumption about them. So if somebody sees a shy quiet person who might look stressed out, what do you think they are going to assume?


It's really not about being shy, quite or even having SA. If you never talk or refuse to leave your house, the reality is, you become useless to society. Most jobs require you to work with others. To interact with others. If you can't do that, you'll probably never hold a job for long. As a guy, if you never walk up to a girl and talk to her, you probably aren't dating much.

The world isn't like the movies. The quiet guy in the corner isn't the one walking away with the money and the girl.

You need to talk to interact with the world.

If you think nobody understands you and is rude for thinking that because you never talk, then what does that make you when you assume somebody who is loud and obnoxious shouldn't be praised.
I think most of us are painfully aware of how we come across, we just come here for support. Good day!
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Old 06-26-2007, 05:55 PM   #16 (permalink)
 
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Aron James

Thanks for the gentle wisdom. May I borrow just a tad bit more? Career wise...you feel internally its not agreeing with you, (sick, horrified, disgusted) but intellectually you need to pay the bills of course! How can I harmonize this with my mind, or is it even possible? Is this me telling me this isnt for me?

Now you mention those close to you will reflect back to you. My mother told me something I just didn't want to hear. She knows my limitations and told me what I feared inside...I think she speaks the truth. I don't think I can "fake it" in any way to pay bills no matter how enlightened I get, I feel i'm not being fair to myself. I know there is no "self" but I just feel i'm not living authentically...

Taking a plunge and trying to make a living of what you're passionate about. No sick feelings whatsover, But ...can you pay the bills and survive? Scary in that regard...

Which road to travel...I know you're not me and only I can decide but pretend you're me. lol. Thanks!
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Old 06-26-2007, 07:49 PM   #17 (permalink)
 
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embers I agree with what you say but the reality is, when you assume a loud obnoxious person is a certain type of person, how can you expect other people to look at you and see somebody special or smart?

The world always makes assumptions. Bashing on others isn't asking for support, it's just putting somebody else down to make yourself feel and look better.

I hate it when people call me shy. I hate it when people joke around, "Ha ha, Shut up ALready." I hate it when people ask me "why am i so quiet?" I hate it when people assume certain things about me because I don't talk.

But the reality is, if I never talk, that is what' s going to happen. I've been terminated from jobs because I rarely spoke with co-workers and management. It's just the way things are. If nobody knows you, they assume you are useless.

Just like certain people assume loud and obnoxious people shouldn't deserve things over others.

It's all about assumptions. If you don't want people to assume you are useless, or a snob, or rude, or unintelligent, than you have to find a way to at least speak once in a while. Cause if you never do, people will assume things about you that you probably don't like.

Nobody is a mind reader.

I"m not going to call a quiet person a loser and I'm not going to call a loud mouth person a loser. If I make inaccurate assumptions about people, then how can I complain when others do the same to me.
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Old 06-27-2007, 02:17 AM   #18 (permalink)
 
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Default re: why are we misunderstood??

Embers

I know its a bit cliched but follow your heart. If you do, then you usually find the conditions for everything else to just naturally come about. Nothing is fixed. Once you walk that path, other things come into play you had not forseen. If you don't, you may end up treading water and wish you were somewhere else doing other things. You can change things gradually in stages or just jump in, either way though you need to happy and confident in the path you choose.

There is a self. Very important point.

Buddhism does not negate the self, it negates how the self exists, meaning how we usually see ourself. And usually this view of ourself is completely incorrect, based on mistaken thinking.

This is why many people don't really know who they are because they relate to themselves mistakenly and in this process they develop a nasty image of their self resulting in them having no real self confidence.

Aron
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1. Anxiety is an ALARM SYSTEM that believes a threat is imminent.
2. Our body & mind freak out, a strong sense of self needs protection.
3. 'What others think' - is a key concept in our mind which can be deconstructed so that it doesn't seem so threatening to our self, hence we need less protection, hence less anxiety alarm.
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Old 06-27-2007, 03:35 AM   #19 (permalink)
 
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Sorry for the off-topic post but I can't let Aron's spiritualism go unopposed. I won't debate this here, I'll just put it out there because it's so hard to find debunkings of enlightenment these days.

Embers, there is no actual 'self' as you said, and there is also no 'Self'. The delusion of "enlightenment" is to use emotions to create an all-encompassing 'Self' once the small ego 'self' is gone. To achieve it, one keeps trying to 'realise' (brainwash yourself) that "I am THAT". It's pure delusion that comes from ignoring that emotions, not thought, are the root of the illusory 'self' and 'Self'. There is no actual spiritual or metaphysical entity living in the body or as the universe... it just feels that way.

The fact is that love, for example, is a feeling which evolved in human material animal brains. Clearly then, if this grand 'Self' is love or loving, it's just a delusion in the human imagination. For a thorough debunking of spiritualism you can search for a site known as 'actual freedom'. We are not all one consciousness or the vague "THAT", we are these material actual bodies, each conscious and sensing. Sorry that it's not emotionally comforting, no eternal life and life's not an illusion... Emotions and 'my' beliefs cloud the facts.
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Old 06-28-2007, 06:32 AM   #20 (permalink)
 
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Recluser,

I think it's wonderful you challenge your reality, it's what we must all do.

What you and i are both looking for and searching for is the truth. This is what i feel most people are looking for. With that being said, i believe you raise some important points that need addressed, that may benefit the rest of the group. Together, eventually, we can establish what is true so that we can all enjoy the inner peace of 'actual freedom'.

Delusions are deceptive thoughts, mistaken, distorted ways of looking at ourself, people and things. They cause unhappiness and suffering because they are mistaken in the way they view things. Anything that is a delusion is necessarily a mistaken way of looking at something that is to say not the ultimate truth.

Enlightenment is a state beyond these delusions where only peace and ultimate truth are experienced. To awaken to this state means to be free of delusion and deceptive mistaken thought. Only peace can be experienced in this state because all delusions, which actually cause suffering, have been erradicated entirely from ones mind. Enlightenment is an inner light of wisdom that knows the true nature of things, so is therefore non deceptive.

Enlightenment is when you actually experience your real nature free from these delusions, your real self, actual freedom from suffering caused by mistaken thoughts, delusions.

Because delusions are not a permanent in our mind, their strength varies, anger for example is sometimes strong in our mind, other times quite mild, this proves that they can be overcome if we view things correctly. Delusions such as anger also have opponent minds such as patience and love proving that delusions can be subdued and overcome.

Love is not a delusion, in its purest essence it is non mistaken mind, non deceptive mind that does not cause unhappiness.

Any grand self, as you say that is based on delusion, i agree, is actually based on the human imagination and will only result in becoming more confused.

Aron
__________________
1. Anxiety is an ALARM SYSTEM that believes a threat is imminent.
2. Our body & mind freak out, a strong sense of self needs protection.
3. 'What others think' - is a key concept in our mind which can be deconstructed so that it doesn't seem so threatening to our self, hence we need less protection, hence less anxiety alarm.
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