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Old 04-28-2010, 06:04 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Default Introverted/Shy Narcissist

Yes, it's another narcissist thread. But I am coming from a different angle.

I think some people with social anxiety sound like they also are Covert/Introverted Narcissists. Most people are decieved into thinking that to be a narcissist you have to be outgoing, confident, have good social skills, high self esteem, etc. This is not true.

http://gertischoen.net/Gentle_Narcissist.html
http://www1.appstate.edu/~hillrw/Nar...arcissist.html
http://samvak.tripod.com/faq66.html

Social Anxiety and Narcississm are both subtle forms of lying to yourself about your worth as a human.
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:21 AM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Yep that is me. I feel like I should be good at everything I try and when I'm not I just pity myself and believe I'm not good at anything. Maybe I'm not good at anything I don't know but I can't stand pity.

I noticed that any friends I ever had have always been outcasts..and if they ever moved on and became more popular I would stop communicating with them pretty much and would feel really weird talking to them. I always end up friends with weird people. The only person that wasn't was someone I met when I was really little.
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:45 AM   #3 (permalink)
 
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"these individuals often think of themselves as perfectionists . . . their fantasy of what they ought to be or produce is so inflated and grandiose that no actual product ever meets their internal standard. This discrepancy between unconscious fantasy and reality leads to further guild and merciless attack from the conscience for not meeting self-set standards as well as to feelings of worthlessness concurrent with grandiosity. These individuals often come to the attention of psychiatrists because of the depression and sense of inner deadness that they experience, as nothing in the world matches the thrill of triumphant achievement that they imagine is due them."

I'm pretty sure I have some narcissistic tendencies.
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:30 AM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Interesting..
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Old 04-28-2010, 11:46 AM   #5 (permalink)
 
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Thanks, that's really accurate. I tested really high on a narcissism quiz posted on here, so this label makes some sense. Don't like the name too much though...
Actually, the name in the second link is ****ing awesome. Covert narcissist!
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:11 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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I don't like these labels. Not that I'm one of these because I'm not lol. I'm just saying, noone fitts the labels completely and may have arrived at them by complex reasoning beyond that which the label accounts for.

I diddn't just estimate greatness for myself I reached it every time I did anything, every time and oh my it was satisfying while it lasted. I felt like I arrived, like I belonged. I feltl ike this world was worth smiling about and everything glistened. Now those standards seem far-fetched by anyones standards but I still believe because I reached them once I could reach them again. I don't fitt this label simply because I have high estimations of myself and don't presently realise them, I could if I wanted to and I know that. I do punish myself every day for not meeting them but surely the fact I built a gold statue of myself through the trail of life at one stage legitimately doesn't make me a John Wayne wannabe or self-deceiver or a narcissist "IF" I turn out to be telling the truth. Unrealistic goals cannot be unobtainable ones. Sod anxiety, sod it to hell I could make myself and force myself through a lot of emotional pain to do these things again but it's not worth it so I don't. I would rather arrive the destination in my own time when I'm good and ready....and that is the end of that righteous rant gentlemen.
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Old 04-30-2010, 05:49 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Interesting articles - this sounds like me also, a lot of this stuff I'm dealing with in therapy. Especially trying to reconnect to emotions, which got buried in early childhood. Without emotions, what else is there but to be a two-dimensional person?
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Old 04-30-2010, 06:09 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
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pretty recently, after an hour and a half long nitrous binge, i started to realize that i'm somewhat narcissistic...if not just plain old narcissistic. the only reason i become annoyed with other, more outgoing narcissists is because they're drawing attention away from me. i hate to have a feeling of entitlement, but most of the time i feel like i just deserve more than what other people may be getting.

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Originally Posted by KumagoroBeam View Post
"these individuals often think of themselves as perfectionists . . . their fantasy of what they ought to be or produce is so inflated and grandiose that no actual product ever meets their internal standard. This discrepancy between unconscious fantasy and reality leads to further guild and merciless attack from the conscience for not meeting self-set standards as well as to feelings of worthlessness concurrent with grandiosity. These individuals often come to the attention of psychiatrists because of the depression and sense of inner deadness that they experience, as nothing in the world matches the thrill of triumphant achievement that they imagine is due them."
this sums me up so perfectly it's scary 0_o
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Old 04-30-2010, 06:38 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Default NO, we're victims of Narcissists, that's all!

NO, we're victims of Narcissists, that's all!

Whatever it was, but there was a time when you, as a child, got the input to be just a tool. And THAT you took with you, because someone IMPORTANT told you that and you can't get rid of this image. Their handled you like a copy, but no one is. And today you think you are the culprit, you are the Narcissist, but that is just what you are to yourself, not to others. BIG DIFFERENCE!
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Old 04-30-2010, 08:22 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
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I'm having a little trouble buying into this. If social anxiety is a problem of thinking, basically of logic, how come medication ever works? I think psychology walks behind brain chemistry in this.Hoping that one day you'll be good enough to live up to your own standards, is that really narcissism? Or is it just being too hard on yourself? Personally, I don't really have that much trouble pleasing myself, I'm not that fussy. People just scare the hell out of me, it's hard to share anything with anybody when that's the way you feel. You want to show your best face, sometimes you just don't get there.I had a friend tell me once that the only reason that I didn't have a girlfriend was because my standards were so high. I was terrified, that's all.I don't think social anxiety is caused by narcissism, or even low self-esteem. I think it's just plain fear. Those others can be present alongside social anxiety, but does the one cause the other, or do they all have a similar cause? Or are people with social anxiety just as susceptible to narcissism or low self-esteem as people without social anxiety, and does it just manifest differently?I think we have to be very careful with words. Narcissism describes very specific negative traits that really don't fit into the description of "gentle narcissism."
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Old 06-01-2010, 06:30 AM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KumagoroBeam View Post
"these individuals often think of themselves as perfectionists . . . their fantasy of what they ought to be or produce is so inflated and grandiose that no actual product ever meets their internal standard. This discrepancy between unconscious fantasy and reality leads to further guild and merciless attack from the conscience for not meeting self-set standards as well as to feelings of worthlessness concurrent with grandiosity. These individuals often come to the attention of psychiatrists because of the depression and sense of inner deadness that they experience, as nothing in the world matches the thrill of triumphant achievement that they imagine is due them."

I'm pretty sure I have some narcissistic tendencies.
Yep, that about sums up my life. Haha
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Old 06-01-2010, 07:06 AM   #12 (permalink)
 
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- Has persistent aspirations for glory and status
- Is sensitive to how others react to him, watches and listens carefully for critical - judgment, and feels slighted by disapproval
- Is prone to feel shamed and humiliated and especially (anxious) and vulnerable to the judgments of others
- Covers up a sense of inadequacy and deficiency with pseudo-arrogance and pseudo-grandiosity
- Alternates between feelings of emptiness and deadness and states of excitement and excess energy
- Has a history of searching for an idealised partner and has an intense need for affirmation and confirmation in relationships
- Frequently entertains a wishful, exaggerated and unrealistic concept of himself, which he can't possibly measure up to
- Produces (too quickly) work not up to the level of his abilities because of an overwhelmingly strong need for the immediate gratification of success
- Is touchy, quick to take offence at the slightest provocation, continually anticipating attack and danger, reacting with anger and fantasies of revenge when he feels himself frustrated in his need for constant admiration
- Is self-conscious, due to a dependence on approval from others
- Suffers regularly from repetitive oscillations of self-esteem
- May react with self-contempt and depression to the lack of fulfillment of his grandiose expectations



Yep.
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Old 06-01-2010, 07:37 AM   #13 (permalink)
 
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I would hate to label myself as a Narcissist, but those traits (especially the first hyperlink), had me down to a T, it was scary. I am a perfectionist, but rarely does this materialise, so i get disappointed with every outcome in my life.

I also feel i have to be constantly independant from others, so i distance myself from everyone who tries to support me.

And i ALWAYS have this nagging feeling that i annoy people with my presence, i get extremely paranoid in alot of social interactions, and then i retreat and stop hanging around these people, sad really i suppose.......
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Old 06-01-2010, 01:04 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser View Post
I don't think social anxiety is caused by narcissism, or even low self-esteem. I think it's just plain fear.
There are probably many different causes for social anxiety disorder - in some people it could just be normal social anxiety that grows and gets out of hand, but in others there might be deeper issues that cause problems interacting with people, which then cause the fear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gingersworld View Post
NO, we're victims of Narcissists, that's all!

Whatever it was, but there was a time when you, as a child, got the input to be just a tool. And THAT you took with you, because someone IMPORTANT told you that and you can't get rid of this image. Their handled you like a copy, but no one is. And today you think you are the culprit, you are the Narcissist, but that is just what you are to yourself, not to others. BIG DIFFERENCE!
Yeah, my dad is definitely a narcissist - he fits nearly all of the symptoms. Narcissists wind up treating their kids as extensions of their ego, which is bound to be damaging. And my mom tried to give me the opposite of what she got as a kid, which was rejection. But I think she went a bit overboard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowmask View Post
- Has persistent aspirations for glory and status
- Is sensitive to how others react to him, watches and listens carefully for critical - judgment, and feels slighted by disapproval
- Is prone to feel shamed and humiliated and especially (anxious) and vulnerable to the judgments of others
- Covers up a sense of inadequacy and deficiency with pseudo-arrogance and pseudo-grandiosity
- Alternates between feelings of emptiness and deadness and states of excitement and excess energy
- Has a history of searching for an idealised partner and has an intense need for affirmation and confirmation in relationships
- Frequently entertains a wishful, exaggerated and unrealistic concept of himself, which he can't possibly measure up to
- Produces (too quickly) work not up to the level of his abilities because of an overwhelmingly strong need for the immediate gratification of success
- Is touchy, quick to take offence at the slightest provocation, continually anticipating attack and danger, reacting with anger and fantasies of revenge when he feels himself frustrated in his need for constant admiration
- Is self-conscious, due to a dependence on approval from others
- Suffers regularly from repetitive oscillations of self-esteem
- May react with self-contempt and depression to the lack of fulfillment of his grandiose expectations


Yep.
Me too.
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Old 06-01-2010, 01:21 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plastics View Post
Yep that is me. I feel like I should be good at everything I try and when I'm not I just pity myself and believe I'm not good at anything. Maybe I'm not good at anything I don't know but I can't stand pity.

I noticed that any friends I ever had have always been outcasts..and if they ever moved on and became more popular I would stop communicating with them pretty much and would feel really weird talking to them. I always end up friends with weird people. The only person that wasn't was someone I met when I was really little.
I do this too. It basically has to do with the fact that I have unrealistic expectations for myself and if I prove to not be good at something I feel like I'm flawed and I'm not ok with that and that nothing else can fix that or make up for it, and therefore I am not good enough.
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Old 06-01-2010, 03:54 PM   #16 (permalink)
 
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I don't think all introverts are narcissists. Everyone has the need to seek approval from others, it's part of social psychology. We all have this mechanism to maintain a positive self-esteem. In this way we are all narcissists. Narcissists with the true personality disorder are somewhat delusional and suffer from a huge inflated sense of self worth.

I think SA in introverts is mostly caused by the western value of independence and extroversion. We live in a culture that values extroversion. This creates the illusion that something is wrong with us when we are quiet when we are just being ourselves. People will constantly tell us to 'speak up' or 'talk more' or 'stop being quiet' when we are more interested in listening. In essence a feeling of shame is forced upon us when we are just being who we are. This makes us feel shame every time we are quiet. When in reality there is nothing wrong with being quiet. I have been taking celexa for a period of time and it has taken away much of the anxiety, yet I'm still introverted and nothing can really change that.

In Eastern societies SA is pretty rare. Eastern countries value interdependence and those who are quiet actually get a lot of respect and admiration. There is actually a phenomenon in Eastern culture that is the complete opposite of SA.
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Old 06-01-2010, 07:31 PM   #17 (permalink)
 
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yes this is me :/
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Old 09-19-2010, 02:40 PM   #18 (permalink)
 
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Default shy narcissist

yes, I am shy/covert narcissist
http://www1.appstate.edu/~hillrw/Nar...omparison.html
http://www1.appstate.edu/~hillrw/Nar...arcissist.html
(my english is bad)
Everything at those links fits me perfectly:
self-centered grandiose fantasies
avoid attention
no professional commitment,no motivation to work
multiple but superficial interests
always think what other people think about me - have no selfesteem.
strong feeling of shame, HUGE SHAME about all that.

Everything fits...except this :
chronic boredom
inability to remain in love -i've been in love for 12 years already, same woman
and inability to genuinely comprehend the incest taboo - yes i imagined sex with my parents few times, but i have NEVER been aroused by that.
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Old 09-19-2010, 02:43 PM   #19 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redefine View Post
Everyone has the need to seek approval from others, it's part of social psychology.
Try telling that to certain schizoids. There is exceptions to that rule.
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Old 09-19-2010, 02:59 PM   #20 (permalink)
 
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I guess I don't like labels and I don't like labeling myself. I can see some qualities that I have read but other than that, I don't feel the need to have approval by others anymore.
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